AMEX not accepted or surcharge

[ChrisFlyer]

I don't really mind with restaurants cause it ends up saving me money! If I really want to eat somewhere and they don't take AMEX, then I'll still pay with my AMEX and cop the 3% surcharge, however I don't tip anything - silly restaurants, I would have tipped at least 10% if they accepted AMEX, but cause they choose to penalise me for wanting to pay with a globally accepted card, they miss out on 7%!

It also saves me money because a surcharge makes me think twice about whether or not I really need what I was planning to buy... whereas when they just accept it, I've already paid before really giving it too much thought.

Having said that, I value my Amex rewards at 6% of the purchase price, and 3% on my MasterCard... so if there's an Amex surcharge, and it makes the price 3% higher or less than MasterCard, I use Amex (eg. 1.5% for MC and 3.5% for AX - use AX)... It's only when the surcharge is like AX 4% and MC 0% that I use MC, or just leave the store lol... I'd rather they just take Amex (even with a 1-3% surcharge) than just not accept it at all lol

 

[pointsjunkie]

Hey on another note, did you guys see the latest Bonus Partners?? The Hotelclub one is awesome - you get 10 Bonus Points per dollar! That makes it unbelievably worthwhile booking through Hotelclub. Am going to Thailand soon as I checked out accomm. for 10 night, it was similar across those online websites, around $2300 for the hotel we wanted - this equals 26450 points!! (I factored in the standard 1.5 points cause I have a Platinum card). Pretty awesome deal I reckon!

Also, does anyone know the latest with Paypal??? Wish they would hurry up and take AMEX!

 

[ChrisFlyer]

I sent them another reminder email about two months ago, and this was their reply:

Dear ChrisCh,

Thank you for contacting PayPal. I am happy to assist you today.

I fully understand how inconvenient it could be about not being able to
add your American Express credit card. I will be more than glad to help
and provide you with the best possible resolution regarding this matter.

Last October, the ability to add AMEX as a funding source has been
removed from the Add Card page since November 10, 2009. Unfortunately,
there is no estimated time as to when/if it will be reinstated for
Australia until negotiations/relations with AMEX normalise. Please
accept our sincerest apologies but we have limited resources to resolve
this matter at the moment as it is beyond PayPal control. Our management
is continuously checking on this and hopefully such feature will be
available soon.

Should you have an issue of immediate assistance, you may contact our
Customer Service Agents at (02) 8223 9500 / 1-800-073-263. Please note
that our Customer Service

Sincerely,
Efren

PayPal, an eBay Company

PayPal Australia Pty Limited.
Copyright © 1999-2010 PayPal. All rights reserved. PayPal Australia Pty
Limited ABN 93 111 195 389 (PPA) holds an Australian Financial Services
License, number 304962. Any general financial product advice provided in
this email is provided by PPA and has not taken into account your
objectives, financial situations or needs.

Rumor was that they were in the process of signing a worldwide Amex-PayPal agreement for every country and currency... but I've never heard that from PayPal themselves lol

 

[pointsjunkie]

I sent them another reminder email about two months ago, and this was their reply:

Thanks

 

[glass]

I'm finding a lot less use for amex this year
that and the low points, and lack of fee waiving is disappointing.
oh well

 

[SOPOOR]

But yeh everyone's different, I guess I just get fed up with businesses not accepting it or surcharging me, businesses need to move with the times. Yes, AMEX used to charge a lot more than Visa / Mastercard but they have dropped their rate so much. I own a business and so do many friends, so I have first hand experience with this. I wouldn't dream of not accepting AMEX, they are my best customers!

really, what sort of rates are we talking about?

cos Im in the process of starting a cafe, and ive got quotes,

with MC/Visa, the rates range from anywhere between 0.77% to 1.34%

with the 0.77% after a fair bit of hunting around, but with amex, I got turned off when they verbally quoted me 1.7% or something......

 

[Chicken]

with MC/Visa, the rates range from anywhere between 0.77% to 1.34%

That's very good for a new business. I never heard of anyone getting such good rate for a new business.

with amex, I got turned off when they verbally quoted me 1.7% or something......

That sounds about right.

 

[ChrisFlyer]

But think about it - on a $40 sale at the rates you mentioned, AMEX will cost only ~30c more than Visa and MasterCard, and for that small fee, your business has the benefit of accepting Amex Corporate Cards - which many use for taking clients out to lunch, meals when on company business, etc etc - expenses which often MUST be on the company AMEX card. If it's not accepted, they'll go somewhere else that will take their company's money as opposed to having to use their own. While yes, it will take an extra 30c out of your profit compared with Visa/MC, you should realise that should they go somewhere else because you don't accept their card, you have lost 100% from these potential customers - as opposed to a mere 30c royalty.

That is just one example using business cards... There are also those like me who refuse to become a regular customer of a business that won't accept my payment. If a customer is standing there in your business, and trying to pay you (which is what business is all about), why not accept it, as opposed to creating hassle, annoyance, and negative thoughts towards your business (particularly if it's part of their first impression)? Not to mention the free publicity and stationery you get from Amex simply by being a merchant lol

I just don't get why some small business owners would intentionally make it harder for themselves, when they can improve their sales and customer service simply by signing a piece of paper and making a couple of phone calls?? lol

 

[Nutcase]

But think about it - on a $40 sale at the rates you mentioned, AMEX will cost only ~30c more than Visa and MasterCard, and for that small fee, your business has the benefit of accepting Amex Corporate Cards - which many use for taking clients out to lunch, meals when on company business, etc etc - expenses which often MUST be on the company AMEX card. If it's not accepted, they'll go somewhere else that will take their company's money as opposed to having to use their own. While yes, it will take an extra 30c out of your profit compared with Visa/MC, you should realise that should they go somewhere else because you don't accept their card, you have lost 100% from these potential customers - as opposed to a mere 30c royalty.

That is just one example using business cards... There are also those like me who refuse to become a regular customer of a business that won't accept my payment. If a customer is standing there in your business, and trying to pay you (which is what business is all about), why not accept it, as opposed to creating hassle, annoyance, and negative thoughts towards your business? Not to mention the free publicity and stationery you get from Amex simply by being a merchant

I just don't get why some small business owners would intentionally make it harder for themselves, when they can improve their sales and customer service simply by signing a piece of paper and making a couple of phone calls?? lol

I second this!

The statistics are very clear - AMEX cards have an average ticket which is at least DOUBLE that of a Standard Visa or Mastercard. This means that we will spend a lot more that other people.

If you are a merchant and you think that you are clever by not accepting AMEX then think again. You are missing out on customers who's average charge is twice that of other cards, who are loyal and who will return to your business.

Yes we carry Visa as well but we prefer AMEX and will go to a merchant that takes it without creating a problem, asking for another card OR surcharging. Who ever thought that Surcharging was a good idea? Why don't you discount for cash rather that charge extra for a card?

Its so much easier to spend at merchants who gladly accept your card and give good service.

 

[ChrisFlyer]

I also forgot to mention that in some cases, it is CHEAPER to process AMEX than Visa/MC. While the 0.77% rate you quoted may be true for standard Visa/MC cards, the rate is normally considerably higher for "mid-qualified" and "non-qualified" transactions (ie. international cards, platinum, corporate and business cards, and sometimes gold cards too, and can also be charged if you settle your terminal too late)... So if you reject an AMEX, and a customer uses a Platinum Visa/MC, you will pay one of these rates - which can sometimes be double, if not triple the base rate (of in this case 0.77%, which is 2.31% - more than what AMEX was asking).

The rate for AMEX stays the same regardless of all of this - meaning you know exactly what your paying, and the rate doesn't fluctuate based on where the card is from and whether it's shiny or not (lol)

 

[Nutcase]

I also forgot to mention that in some cases, it is CHEAPER to process AMEX than Visa/MC. While the 0.77% rate you quoted may be true for standard Visa/MC cards, the rate is normally considerably higher for "mid-qualified" and "non-qualified" transactions (ie. international cards, platinum, corporate and business cards, and sometimes gold cards too, and can also be charged if you settle your terminal too late)... So if you reject an AMEX, and a customer uses a Platinum Visa/MC, you will pay one of these rates - which can sometimes be double, if not triple the base rate (of in this case 0.77%, which is 2.31% - more than what AMEX was asking).

The rate for AMEX stays the same regardless of all of this - meaning you know exactly what your paying, and the rate doesn't fluctuate based on where the card is from and whether it's shiny or not (lol)

This is dependent on who the merchant acquiring business is with. NAB separate Premium from Standard card and charge a 2 MSF model, where CBA Wesptac and St George have a different structure. This means that it will be cheaper to process Standard and gold cards thru NAB but more expensive to process premium cards with them (Platinum, Corporate and overseas). The mix of your business determines if this is a good move or not.

From a wholesale (interechange) perspective and if you are a merchant with Interchange Plus pricing, Yes Platinum, corporate and especially Overseas Visa and Mastercard transactions are going to be more expensive than AMEX.

Oils aint oils kids. Merchant acquiring business is very complex

 

[edman]

When quoted for Merchant services by CBA this time last year, they had a stepped model similar to NAB for my accouting practice. For my restaurant it is a fixed deal that they provide to an industry group, better than anything I've been able to get for my accounting practice.

The rate for Amex CAN change depending on the deal offered. Some of the deals where they are quoting a low figure is for the first $xx_ processed in a 12 month period only, which then reverts to a standard (higher) rate.

I note some success with forum members reporting businesses that don't accept amex or who surcharge. Is there a secret to this? I've submitted businesses on their website a few times with no response. Even tried submitting mine and still never hear anything.

 

[Nutcase]

When quoted for Merchant services by CBA this time last year, they had a stepped model similar to NAB for my accouting practice. For my restaurant it is a fixed deal that they provide to an industry group, better than anything I've been able to get for my accounting practice.

The rate for Amex CAN change depending on the deal offered. Some of the deals where they are quoting a low figure is for the first $xx_ processed in a 12 month period only, which then reverts to a standard (higher) rate.

I note some success with forum members reporting businesses that don't accept amex or who surcharge. Is there a secret to this? I've submitted businesses on their website a few times with no response. Even tried submitting mine and still never hear anything.

This is exactly my point.

Your restaurant is looked at from a blended "book" perspective which means CBA look at their entire book of restaurants and have a deal structured accordingly.

Your accounting practice is likely to process more Premium cards (Corporate and Business) hence the difference in MSF and there is no group deal sitting behind it.

Banks look at the industry and their book to make a call on Merchant fees.

AMEX do offer deals to merchants - they were doing this when they won the David Jones deal. Part of that deal was that there had to be a certain % of merchants around each DJ's store that accepted the card, hence the deals.

When you submit to Amex a merchant who doesn't accept the card, some poor rep has to go and face the merchant and deal with the usual barrage of abuse and objections around "they always have a Visa" or "there is no demand" etc etc so if your business is small and not strategic, they may pass on it.

 

[SOPOOR]

I second this!

The statistics are very clear - AMEX cards have an average ticket which is at least DOUBLE that of a Standard Visa or Mastercard. This means that we will spend a lot more that other people.

If you are a merchant and you think that you are clever by not accepting AMEX then think again. You are missing out on customers who's average charge is twice that of other cards, who are loyal and who will return to your business.

Yes we carry Visa as well but we prefer AMEX and will go to a merchant that takes it without creating a problem, asking for another card OR surcharging. Who ever thought that Surcharging was a good idea? Why don't you discount for cash rather that charge extra for a card?

Its so much easier to spend at merchants who gladly accept your card and give good service.

I completely agree with you amd I really didn't think of it that way until you told me

fortunately, for me , the rates I got with Visa/MC were 0.77% flat rate except for international cards etc. this was one of my criteria when I was shopping around.

Well I sincerely hope that I don't lose customers or NOT get them in the first place due to non acceptance of Amex, I assumed that everyone who has an amex has a visa/mc stashed away, and that most people understand this and aren't too fazed of having their Amex rejected

eg when buying supplies for the setup of the restaurant, I found that 90% didn;t accept amex, and the 10% did, they charged extra for it.

naturally, it didn't annoy me, disappointed yes!,

personally, i really hope Amex go bankrupt,

 

[drron]

I agree.I usually tell the business I wont be back and why.Those that charge a 3-5% surcharge that try and tell me that is the cost of business I just reply the ATO charges 1.25% and say that is their cost.I know if I were still in business that is about the rate I could get now.So Sayonara to them.

 

[edman]

Bought a brand new Harley a few weeks ago and the bike shop set the CTP up with NRMA. NRMA rang me yesterday to tell me that if I did the Comprehensive insurance with them I qualify for a 5% discount on the whole lot.

Apart from the fact that NRMA is about 2.5 times more expensive for the comprehensive on a bike, and a couple of hundred dearer for each of my Audi's than my current insurer, I also took the opportunity to tell them that the non-acceptance of Amex was an issue and I would probably move the CTP when it came up for renewal. The CSR told me that he had been hearing that a lot lately and that he thought by the time my CTP was up it would no longer be an issue.

Fingers crossed!

 

[pointsjunkie]

I second this!

The statistics are very clear - AMEX cards have an average ticket which is at least DOUBLE that of a Standard Visa or Mastercard. This means that we will spend a lot more that other people.

If you are a merchant and you think that you are clever by not accepting AMEX then think again. You are missing out on customers who's average charge is twice that of other cards, who are loyal and who will return to your business.

Yes we carry Visa as well but we prefer AMEX and will go to a merchant that takes it without creating a problem, asking for another card OR surcharging. Who ever thought that Surcharging was a good idea? Why don't you discount for cash rather that charge extra for a card?

Its so much easier to spend at merchants who gladly accept your card and give good service.

I third this!

It's true, you pay a bit more in merchant service fee when a customer pays with their AMEX Card but it is so so worth it given how much extra they spend. Why on earth would a business turn away a large transaction just cause it costs them a few cents more to process?! Madness.

And you're right about all the variable fees for premium cards - people are under the misconception that Visa / MC is so much cheaper than AMEX but if you actually blended the rates for Visa / MC, taking the various fees into account, it would be nearly as high as AMEX. I like that I know what I'm getting with AMEX - it's one fee, regardless of the card type, they don't try to confuse you and disguise things!

On this, if you notice the banks are trying to upgrade everyone to premium cards now so it's only going to get more expensive too as the radio of premium to standard cards increase! :evil:

 

[wxxnxs]

personally, i really hope Amex go bankrupt,

I agree & fully support your last point.

 

[farstar]

Well I sincerely hope that I don't lose customers or NOT get them in the first place due to non acceptance of Amex, I assumed that everyone who has an amex has a visa/mc stashed away, and that most people understand this and aren't too fazed of having their Amex rejected

If I need to buy something or meals for work and the merchant does not accept Amex then I must go somewhere else as I have a Corporate Amex and I refuse to use my personal credit cards for work. I am not fazed about rejection I will just go elsewhere. So in effect I don't have a Visa/Mastercard to use for work and I can be spending Thousands at a time, so your loss.

 

[wxxnxs]

If I need to buy something or meals for work and the merchant does not accept Amex then I must go somewhere else as I have a Corporate Amex and I refuse to use my personal credit cards for work. I am not fazed about rejection I will just go elsewhere. So in effect I don't have a Visa/Mastercard to use for work and I can be spending Thousands at a time, so your loss.

This case applys to my corporate as well.