AMEX not accepted or surcharge

[lovestotravel]

My local Indian take-away had a red texta cross over the Amex logo on the Amex/Visa/Mastercard sign today... :shock:

So I ordered my usual meal and ignored the sign with the ominous red mark on it :evil:

Pulled out the Amex and was told "Sorry no Amex now, use other card or cash"

I was served by the owner whom recongises me as I have been going there for months and paying by Amex and has served me a few times.

I asked why and didn't get much of a decent response, so I said I won't be back. She kept insisting that I pay cash or Visa as my food was made up, but I said that's not my preferred method of payment so I think I'll leave it for today. Went on to inform her that I won't be back here again now as I can't use Amex and she started to explain that Amex takes longer to give her the money and is charging her 2.8% where VI/MC is 1.1% etc etc and it's not worth her time.

I asked how many people pay via Amex and she said "hardly any" and implied that they would pay via VI/MC/Cash anyway.... I said well until you accept Amex again I won't be back so that's about $1200 per year in revenue that you will not be making. She continued to explain that the high merchant fee etc is not worth it, but I said if not many people are using Amex, then it's a small portion of your total sales so it shouldn't matter.

Talked more about it, but the end of the story is that she said that "she won't be accepting Amex again", so I thanked her for her lovely food over the past 6 months and wished her all the best and left my food there as I said I only had my Amex card on me....

Just reported the store to Amex too via the website, they'll probably get in contact with her over the next 6-12 months but won't change anything.

Already found a nearby take-away which accepts Amex so I'll start trying that place out...

 

[paul d]

I recently had the same experience with my local indian cafe/takeaway . When i pulled out my Amex to pay for the T/A he said that they no longer accepted the card . I pressed on to say that it was all i had with me ..... and he said OK but this is the last , no more !!!! I think it goes to show that they still take it , they just prefer not to as people usually have other forms of payment with them .

 

[Mal]

so I thanked her for her lovely food over the past 6 months and wished her all the best and left my food there as I said I only had my Amex card on me....

While I agree with reporting stores that don't accept Amex back to Amex, and where applicable telling them why you won't purchase things from them, ordering food and then refusing to pay is a little bit wrong IMHO. I seriously doubt that anyone only has one card on them and no cash, or other cards, and there is always the possibility the merchant could call the police and see if they will come and have a chat. It's not the merchant's responsibility to accept Amex, it's the purchaser's responsibility to have the correct money in a form that the merchant will accept.

 

[equus]

It's not the merchant's responsibility to accept Amex..

But it is the merchant's responsibility if they have the little sticker on the door or near the register. How often have you heard "the machine isn't working" or "the sticker is old, we don't accept it any more".

In both these circumstances, it is the merchant's responsibility, as they have advertised acceptance, and refusing to honour it would amount to false advertising and misleading conduct on the part of the merchant, in breach of the Trade Practices Act (very soon to be renamed).

In this particular case, however, the big red cross was a bit of a give away....

 

[lovestotravel]

While I agree with reporting stores that don't accept Amex back to Amex, and where applicable telling them why you won't purchase things from them, ordering food and then refusing to pay is a little bit wrong IMHO. I seriously doubt that anyone only has one card on them and no cash, or other cards, and there is always the possibility the merchant could call the police and see if they will come and have a chat. It's not the merchant's responsibility to accept Amex, it's the purchaser's responsibility to have the correct money in a form that the merchant will accept.

Police - You really have to joking...... or living in dream world.
Firstly they wouldn't care in the slightest,
Secondly they wouldn't even come/turn up, and
Thirdly I would be long gone before they even did turn up to a case of "food ordered but not picked up please attend the takeaway shop" :shock::shock::shock:

I have walked out of many stores that don't' accept Amex after putting my purchases on the counter. The majority of stores/shops don't have signs indicating what payment they accept. So I'll get to the counter and then pull out the payment method and then walk out when told they don't accept it.

I have zero interest in paying via another means, I want to use Amex and that's it, and I will walk in 99.9% of cases if they don't accept it. It's not up to me to suit the merchants payment methods, it's a big big world out there and for every sucker that won't accept Amex, many others offer the exact same service/food and accept Amex. So it is up to the merchant if they want my money, not up to me to suit their decisions to refuse to accept Amex.

Also not my responsibility to ask first do you take Amex before going into every shop.

Although I did do that yesterday in a book store that I remember used to surcharge Amex 3%, as the answer was "yes 3%" I walked out before looking around and went to the store down the road with the same prices and no surcharge.

 

[lovestotravel]

But that does sound like a challenge of getting the police to turn up for a case of a store not accepting Amex and the customer refusing to pay.. Would probably end up in the local paper too :mrgreen:

I do agree that ordering take-away food was a bit wrong, but it was in a food court in a shopping centre, so they will resell the butter chicken very soon and can keep it under the warming lights in the container ready for another customer.

It wasn't a take-away shop on a main street with a lunch order that they couldn't on-sell to the next customer....

 

[zzyss]

There seems to be a mitigating circumstance since the shop used to take Amex, and all of a sudden the only notice that they've stopped is the red X on the sign. I mean, that's sounds like exactly the situation I'd have been stuck in - especially if it's one of the places near my place... I'd only be carrying my keys and my card, expecting things to be the same as they'd been for the last year or whatever - why bother bringing the full regalia - keys, wallet, watch, rings, etc. just to go pick up dinner across the road or whatever?

But I seriously don't understand the mentality of shopowners like that Indian takeaway, who claim to have only a very small number of Amex-using customers, but still insist on removing Amex. Look at it logically... lovestotravel's $1200 worth of business per year, which means they're out by $33.60 a year at 2.8% (or $20.48 if he used V/M instead).

Let's just say there are 100 such people who drop $30 a week there - $156000, which is $4368 (2.8%) - $1716 (1.1%) = $2652. If your business can't wear that cost over an entire year, you don't know how to run business. That's how much you'd pay in rent weekly.

(You could argue that the number is a lot more than 100 people, but try and see this as a fixed percentage of customers. If it's 1000 people then the percentage of customers paying via other methods also increases in proportion. I'd use percentages to illustrate my example except that would've taken more time and effort )

 

[Diesellife]

+1 to zzyss.
They are just mere greedy in that sort of case. Doing anything they could to maximize profit margin of 1.7% at best.

But they failed to realized that losing zzyss is almost equivalent to about the 1.7 percent of a 100 customers a year. (given the example above and provided not each person would pay Amex.).

So now.. As a business owner, how many customers do you want to lose before accepting back Amex?

I believe if you are not in a monopoly market, taking Amex will only increase the firm's competitive value.

 

[cove]

The surcharge on the ATO BAS is one I am happy to pay on either a VISA point a dollar card or my Amex Ultimate. Effective cost per point is 0.65 cents for Visa and 0.83 cents for Amex before the tax deduction that may be available to you.
Pretty much all other surcharges suck!

 

[equus]

Effective cost per point is 65 cents for Visa and 83 cents for Amex

If you value points at that much, boy do I have a deal for you!:mrgreen: I am sure I can arrange to sell you as many points as you like at that rate.

(I think you may mean 0.65 and 0.83 cents......)

 

[aasz1978]

While I agree with reporting stores that don't accept Amex back to Amex, and where applicable telling them why you won't purchase things from them, ordering food and then refusing to pay is a little bit wrong IMHO. I seriously doubt that anyone only has one card on them and no cash, or other cards, and there is always the possibility the merchant could call the police and see if they will come and have a chat. It's not the merchant's responsibility to accept Amex, it's the purchaser's responsibility to have the correct money in a form that the merchant will accept.

I humbly disagree. While it is the purchaser's responsibility to have correct money to pay, buyers can always refuse to accept the good if it is not to his/her satisfaction. You cannot just pay if the food is not an acceptable standard. In this case, the buyer has the right to accept the cooked food or not. If he is to accept it, then he/she will need to pay for it and goods then tendered. If not, the buyer can just leave. He/she is under no obligation whatsoever to accept the cooked food or not.

There is nothing the shopkeeper can do other than to ban the customer from coming in again in the future.

 

[cove]

Yes Equus I have edited my post to correct the missing decimal place.
Thanks for that.

 

[Mal]

I do agree that ordering take-away food was a bit wrong, but it was in a food court in a shopping centre, so they will resell the butter chicken very soon and can keep it under the warming lights in the container ready for another customer.

It wasn't a take-away shop on a main street with a lunch order that they couldn't on-sell to the next customer....

Aaah, sorry. Here I was imagining a typical freshly cooked $50ish takeaway lunch for two that the poor saps then had to work out what to do with it. Didn't think it was just the standard bain maree type Indian.

But I still think that eventually after walking away from transactions, someone will snap. It's not really an issue with some other goods, but food can be tricky.

 

[lovestotravel]

All good Sorry my reply to you was a bit :evil: as well

Should have been clearer in the first place

 

[Moopere]

Mmm. I'm certainly no expert in these things but have been of the impression for ever that the only currency that merchants absolutely must accept is the government printed stuff, coin and paper. Though times have changed and cards are ubiquitous now, I'm pretty sure when push comes to shove you need to be able to pay with cash in a contractual situation.

Contracts can be verbal .. as in 'please provide me an Indian curry'

All other payment types that are not cash are conveniences and may be offered and accepted by the purchaser and the merchant or not as each case dictates. Of course, in the real world, its pretty unlikely that the situation being talked about will end up in a technical legal battle.

Certainly myself, I do choose where to shop at least partially based upon convenience, so, as I contemplate getting my first Amex card, was aware this afternoon as I walked into the local bottle shop that they had a hand written sticker on their EFTPOS machine saying "Amex 3%" - I think I'll see what Amex thinks of that and if nothing changes then I'll not go back.

I have a lot of sympathy for local small business. They don't benefit from economies of scale in any way and everyone slugs them for the full cost of everything. As retail consumers we build up an expectation thats largely created by the big boys of retail which really squeezes the little guy. Its hard to imagine that its the merchant fee which is causing these small shops to oncharge 3% or so to the customer. I'd say its a -lot- more likely that delays in payment from the card companies are more painful and the on-charging of 3% is being used to try and encourage you to use a different method which puts money in their bank account more quickly.

They would probably be better off advertising a 5% discount for cash, and 3% discount for non Amex cards (or something). All other things being equal, they'd probably be swamped with business.

 

[lovestotravel]

Received about 10 emails today in response to my reporting of merchants who don't accept Amex.

I am no longer reporting now as they are a waste of time.

1. Reported a fruit shop that takes VI/MC but no Amex - The Amex reply was that the merchant doesn't accept any credit cards - Strike 1
2. A local business that doesn't accept Amex online, but may accept it in-store if you are going to walk and if you want to pay 3%. The reply was that the merchant already warmly accepts Amex - Strike 2
3. Reported a local council that doesn't take Amex, the reply was that they already do - Strike 3.

Based on these latest incorrect emails and the other hundreds of "the merchant has decided not to accept Amex at this time.." I cannot be bothered reporting anymore.

I have had about 2 successful reports, where the business has started to accept Amex.

However, I will continue to search and only shop at a business that accepts Amex

 

[Chicken]

I'd say its a -lot- more likely that delays in payment from the card companies are more painful and the on-charging of 3% is being used to try and encourage you to use a different method which puts money in their bank account more quickly.

The difference at where I work is only one day. So money from Visa and MasterCard appears the next morning, AmEx is the morning after. Not that much longer, just one business day.

 

[lovestotravel]

The difference at where I work is only one day. So money from Visa and MasterCard appears the next morning, AmEx is the morning after. Not that much longer, just one business day.

Yep that is the current Amex arrangement

 

[mitchy123]

Just a note on acceptance, I put in note to AMEX regarding AAMI Insurance not accepting AMEX, probably about 5 or 6 months ago.

Received an email from them last week saying that AAMI now "warmly" accept it. Not sure how many others would have done this, but its nice to see that this system does actually work (at least some of the time).

 

[lovestotravel]

Nice that it seems to work for you...

I received 2 more emails on New Years Eve about Amex Acceptance.

Two merchants that will now "warmly welcome the card with no surcharge" There were previous merchants that previously did NOT accept Amex.

I tried them out over the past few days and received the "Sorry we don't accept Amex"

I insisted they swipe my card and try to process it, in-case they were not aware of the change, but the cards were declined/not accepted...

Yep FAIL again Amex