Amex Pin Issues Overseas

[Mal]

Edit: I've just tried the security code as PIN at Coles and it got declined.

I tried that too - Also declined.

Now, some overseas credit card terminals require the staffer to enter the security code for some transactions as a method of fraud protection and to prove the card is present. Perhaps that's got something to do with the entry of the number.

Also, some terminals always ask for a "zip number/postcode" or "pin number" - and won't let you decline entering it (eg some petrol pumps in the US). In that case, sometimes entering anything will actually work with credit cards.

 

[mick]

Mick, did you have an already existing PIN on that card or was it SIG only.
just wondering if you only had SIG, then maybe the security code works.
hhhmmm.

No, I've never had a PIN on my Amex. Next time I have the opportunity to use a PIN at a terminal, am gonna try the security code. I just hope the cashier doesn't get suss if it fails!

 

[drron]

August/Sept 2010 used my amex in Norway,Finland,Russia and Hungary and not once asked for a PIN.

 

[rotator101]

Have had this problem before ... some countries use different wording to describe that little security code. PIN does not mean the same thing all around the world!

Same thing happened in Venezuela; someone insisting I give them my "PIN" number, which was required to open an account. It took a while to figure out they wanted the security code printed on the card.

 

[JrFoxMN]

Also, some terminals always ask for a "zip number/postcode" or "pin number" - and won't let you decline entering it (eg some petrol pumps in the US). In that case, sometimes entering anything will actually work with credit cards.

In these cases, I've had luck with using your correct postcode and appending a zero.

e.g. "3120" becomes "31200".

 

[JrFoxMN]

AMEX really do need to get a move on and upgrade their cards with chips. I have no end of problems trying to use my card in Malaysia now. No chip no sale!

Sorry to hear that - living 2+ years in Kuala Lumpur, I never had that problem (though I did have one place that actually pulled out the old carbon-copy imprint machine from the box to run my AmEx).

One trick I've used in one country where they weren't going to accept it was to ask for a sheet of paper. After reading the individual's name off a name-tag, and writing it down on the sheet of paper, I then say, "I'm afraid this is a violation of your merchant agreement with American Express. I'll have to report this, and it could result in your business being fined."

It's a bit harsh, but it tends to get their attention. A manager usually comes over then, swipes the card, checks my ID (another violation, but I don't care, personally), and I walk out, purchase in hand.

Anyway, I do agree : AmEx anywhere else in the world is much more advanced than here... PINs, ExpressPay, chip cards... -SIGH-

 

[ChrisFlyer]

I've just returned from a trip to Singapore, the UK, Italy and Switzerland... Although my Amex cards are PIN-capable, the terminals always just defaulted to a signature - I had no opportunity to actually enter a PIN even if I wanted to! Often in the UK, stores would have two devices - one accessible to the customer that is Chip&PIN-only (ie no mag stripe reader), and another facing them that can process cards when swiped. Alternately, they had a Chip&PIN reader, and then their POS had a build in mag stripe reader (eg in Harrods), which then required the clerk to also key in the 4 digit security code for approval.

This varied from store to store, but I only ever had my Amex card declined about 3 or 4 times while in these countries, and the only reason was because the merchant didn't accept *any* Amex cards.

 

[SeaWolf]

Just as a somewhat related side question, what's the reason for using the AMEX at all overseas when it's going to hit you with a 3% foreign currency fee? Wouldn't it be better to use something like the 28 Degrees or NAB Gold Visa Debit and avoid the extra fees? Surely the benefit of the MR points is being wiped out by the additional cost.

 

[prozac]

Using Visa you will also encounter a foreign transaction fee on top of the bank foriegn exchange rate charge. Double whammy. Amex will win out.

 

[SeaWolf]

Using Visa you will also encounter a foreign transaction fee on top of the bank foriegn exchange rate charge. Double whammy. Amex will win out.

However that's not true of the two example I listed above (28 Degrees MasterCard or NAB Gold Visa Debit) both of which charge you no fees at all for foreign currency transactions. I ask particularly because both of those cards are very popular on this forum.
See:
http://www.australianfrequentflyer..../wizard-28-mastercard-cash-advances-6960.html
http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ussion/second-best-option-o-seas-24760-2.html

 

[prozac]

I'll look into that further thanks.

 

[ChrisFlyer]

Just as a somewhat related side question, what's the reason for using the AMEX at all overseas when it's going to hit you with a 3% foreign currency fee? Wouldn't it be better to use something like the 28 Degrees or NAB Gold Visa Debit and avoid the extra fees? Surely the benefit of the MR points is being wiped out by the additional cost.

Well I earn 1.5QFF/$1AUD, 2.48QFF/1GBP, 2.08QFF/1EUR and 1.63QFF/1CHF on my plat card... I value each QFF point at 6c (when used to redeem for international business upgrades), so for every transaction I make in Australia (without a merchant surcharge), I make a 9% profit in points (being 1.5/$1)... My Visa & 2 MasterCards all have a 3% FX fee, and on my two Amex cards it's 3.5%... As I only earn 0.5QFF/$1AUD on the MasterCards (value to me of 3c), if I relied on using MasterCard, I would literally be buying points at cost (which I luckily only had to do a couple of times - and only used it instead of cash due to the purchase protection insurances)... Whereas Amex the FX fee is 3.5%, and the rewards are 9%, so I still profit 5.5% in points when I use my Plat overseas, or 2.5% when using Gold (only earns 1QFF/$1AUD)... Hopefully that explains my logic!

And as a backup, I bought all of my foreign currency (that largely went unused) on MasterCard using BPAY (no surcharge and treated as a purchase), so I made a bit of a QFF earn there... and now the AUD has dropped about 10% against the GBP, so when I convert back at Travelex (commission free for me), I should actually get *more* money back from not using the cash, as well as QFF points direct from Travelex haha

 

[SeaWolf]

Hmm, that's quite a detailed breakdown. I've generally used the 1point=1cent rule, but I guess I should probably have a bit more of a think about it going into the future.

 

[lovestotravel]

And as a backup, I bought all of my foreign currency (that largely went unused) on MasterCard using BPAY (no surcharge and treated as a purchase), so I made a bit of a QFF earn there... and now the AUD has dropped about 10% against the GBP, so when I convert back at Travelex (commission free for me), I should actually get *more* money back from not using the cash, as well as QFF points direct from Travelex haha

Hmmmm that's interesting...

Last time I tried that with a Visa card it was treated as a cash advance AND the 1.5% by Travelex.... From Travelex website

"Orders paid for by credit / debit cards incur a card processing fee of 1.5% on the AUD cost of your order"

Also the possibility of a cash advance fee from your bank! I was charged both on my test transaction So just did direct transfers from then on..

Also not sure where you are getting the 10% drop in the GBP rate either...

 

[wxxnxs]

Hmm, that's quite a detailed breakdown. I've generally used the 1point=1cent rule, but I guess I should probably have a bit more of a think about it going into the future.

Your value is even higher than me, I only value half of 1c, maybe I don't have that much to spend to redeem a business class airline ticket.

Last time I tried that with a Visa card it was treated as a cash advance AND the 1.5% by Travelex.... From Travelex website...

You are right, once the transaction is processed from your credit card, that will be treated as cash advance then you lose all of your credit card benefits.

 

[ChrisFlyer]

Perhaps I should clarify a few details, just in case any of you were interested in doing the same thing... I originally purchased my foreign currency in mid-December 2010, using AMEX's FX4YOU via Westpac (which had the best rate I could find from anywhere - including other banks also using the FX4YOU system)... This was when the AUD was strongest against the GBP, and through this method, you can purchase the currency using BPAY (I used my CBA Gold Awards MasterCard - 0.5QFF/$1 for BPAY - better than nothing)! ... the transaction is treated as a normal purchase, so points are awarded and no cash advance interest or transaction fee is charged!

I also should correct - I meant to write 10c, not 10% (I'm so used to 10c being 10% of a dollar haha...)... If you want to see what I mean with the exchange rate, I purchased the GBP (and other currencies) on Dec 20, and sold back yesterday, where the exchange rate is about $0.10AUD in my favour per GBP, when compared to when I bought the cash. Australian Dollar Exchange Rate Graph - British Pound - Historical Exchange Rates ... of course due to the difference in buy and sell rates, obviously I won't earn the full 10c, but still

I only used Travelex to convert the foreign cash back into Australian cash - so there was no credit card involvement with them at all - just took advantage of their offer for our employees of commission-free exchange (saved $24AUD - which was approx. 8% of the exchange value).

And to my points valuation - originally I only used to value them at 1-2c per point (which is what they are really worth when simply using to redeem for classic seat awards), however upon doing the maths and calculating the $$$ cost between the cheapest international (upgradable) economy ticket and the cost of a full price business class ticket, they would be worth 5.99c/ea - so I now use this valuation when deciding whether or not to pay surcharges etc

 

[RB]

Perhaps I should clarify a few details, just in case any of you were interested in doing the same thing... I originally purchased my foreign currency in mid-December 2010, using AMEX's FX4YOU via Westpac (which had the best rate I could find from anywhere - including other banks also using the FX4YOU system)... This was when the AUD was strongest against the GBP, and through this method, you can purchase the currency using BPAY (I used my CBA Gold Awards MasterCard - 0.5QFF/$1 for BPAY - better than nothing)! ... the transaction is treated as a normal purchase, so points are awarded and no cash advance interest or transaction fee is charged!

I also should correct - I meant to write 10c, not 10% (I'm so used to 10c being 10% of a dollar haha...)... If you want to see what I mean with the exchange rate, I purchased the GBP (and other currencies) on Dec 20, and sold back yesterday, where the exchange rate is about $0.10AUD in my favour per GBP, when compared to when I bought the cash. Australian Dollar Exchange Rate Graph - British Pound - Historical Exchange Rates ... of course due to the difference in buy and sell rates, obviously I won't earn the full 10c, but still

I only used Travelex to convert the foreign cash back into Australian cash - so there was no credit card involvement with them at all - just took advantage of their offer for our employees of commission-free exchange (saved $24AUD - which was approx. 8% of the exchange value).

And to my points valuation - originally I only used to value them at 1-2c per point (which is what they are really worth when simply using to redeem for classic seat awards), however upon doing the maths and calculating the $$$ cost between the cheapest international (upgradable) economy ticket and the cost of a full price business class ticket, they would be worth 5.99c/ea - so I now use this valuation when deciding whether or not to pay surcharges etc

XE.com seems to be saying $1 aussie was 0.636 on 20th Dec & 0.6215 Jan 24th. Perhaps you can explain further for me?