And My Jetstar Saga continues

[JB expat]

Back in Feb, I posted the following and received many, many replies:
http://www.australianfrequentflyer....-discussion/am-i-really-out-1600-a-66356.html
The least helpful were the "suck it up Princess" type. The most helpful given the circumstances were those that pointed out that I got the flights I wanted on the days I wanted which (as per my post), were very important to me (the dates/direct flights) and that I had a lovely holiday ahead of me. I reluctantly ended up buying into that view and decided to focus on the fact that I did get what I wanted, when I wanted albeit at a price.

WELL....(and I can't type this without steam coming out of my ears)...[note - this is copied more or less out of a complaint letter which already resulted in a Qantas Customer Care Exec calling me and now I'm waiting for Jetstar to respond via phone call which the Qantas Exec committed would happen (I have her direct dial to followup if it does not) - the only advantage of the timing of this was the fact that I had a long haul JFK --> MEL which gave me time I don't usually have to write a letter of complaint]

Around 7 May (notably a couple weeks after the conclusion of the Jetstar sale referred to in my original post), I receive an email from Jetstar informing me of a flight schedule change. I was to depart MEL for HNL 24 hours later and return home 24 hours later. As stated, the SINGLE reason I booked flights to Hawaii in January was to lock in specific dates (around direct flights rather than flights via Sydney) so that I could coordinate a house rental/holiday with my US-based extended family for Thanksgiving. The booking of my immediately family’s flights originating in MEL was the first in a chain involving the booking of 2 houses over a 2 plus week period, the booking of my extended family’s (7 people’s) flights from the mainland US to HNL and the booking of a minivan rental (which was a great deal that I would lose if I needed to change anything about the booking). For those of you who posted that I locked in my airfare fully aware of the "no changes or lose entire purchase price" deal" and that my request that Jetstar consider refunding part of my purchase price was "naive" at best and "beyond ridiculous" (and more) at worst, I find it absolutely outrageous that Jetstar is free to bump me around due to its need to change its flight schedule 5 months in advance without any concept of "compensation" tied to such a change, but can take a “no changes” position about a huge fare drop for flights 10 months out.


Upon calling Jetstar Customer Service, they offer to put me on non-direct flights on my desired dates one of which resulted in a 5 hour layover in Sydney. I will be traveling with an almost 5 year old and almost 3 year old – the direct flights were a “must” for us…and a five hour layover, well I believe you can draw your own conclusions to how I felt. At the same time I was engaging in this extremely frustrating conversation with Jetstar Customer Service I was frantically looking flight options on my computer. I saw that although due to the change in flight schedule, there were no longer any direct flight options for my required dates, there were flight options (via Qantas) involving a much shorter layover. I decided to take a gamble and demand a cancellation/full refund of the Jetstar itinerary - which refund has been received. After a long hold, I was told it would be granted. Note, had the sale still be running, I would have demanded the same full cancellation, booked my Jet Star legs and separately booked the Qantas flight from Sydney to Melb that would have given me the significantly shorter layover. I would have 1 – saved well over $2000; 2 – traveled on my required dates; 3 – not used my Qantas FF points (I rebooked my entire trip with points - plus the ridiculous taxes etc. charge - unfortunately, the only flight from Syd to HNL on the date I need to travel is a JQ flight which I booked as part of my Q FF points booking); and 4 – although not direct, minimized my layover (I find it abhorrent that Jetstar did not offer to put me on this Qantas flight and “eat the difference” in cost). I find what Jetstar did (changing flight schedules just after the conclusion of a huge sale to be extremely deceptive and deliberately timed)...

I will NEVER EVER fly Jetstar again if I have a choice - direct flights or not as it is clear that you can't count on them for anything. This experience almost turned me off of Qantas (and I chase Qantas points - I'm a gold FF for 8 years and given my work travel, I believe this will continue - I'm on track for this year's renewal) - if the Q Customer Care Exec hadn't called me back, I would have gone Virgin or another airline alliance for my overseas travel as I often pay more for the Q flights than I would for alternatives.

I still have trouble accepting is Qantas' insistence that it has no responsibility for the actions of Jetstar. You can earn Q points on Jetstar travel; the Jetstar logo appears on the bottom of the Q internet site along with the OneWorld Logo; you can book a Jetstar flight using Q FF points (as I ultimately did for this Hawaii trip); and their ownership structure. I want Jetstar to provide me at no charge with the same "extras" (ha) that I paid for under my original booking - my luggage/seat selection/iPad selection.

Also, as an aside - someone mentioned to me that because I'm transferring in Syd to International via the shuttle, because my international leg is on a Jetstar flight, I will be asked to pay $5/person for the shuttle. I find this hard to believe - I've never paid for the shuttle in the past...but I've never flown Jetstar internationally in the past either.

 

[Anna]

I will NEVER EVER fly Jetstar again if I have a choice - direct flights or not as it is clear that you can't count on them for anything.

I'm sorry you had a such a hard road to learning this lesson.

It's a lesson I learned after being stuffed around by JQ with cancellations of booked flights, and being rebooked on to a flight departing on Xmas Day without asking me whether it was suitable.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

JBexpat - what was the bottom line out of all of this? You got a refund, but what did the new flights end up costing you? (ie how much did you save?)

I wonder what date the schedule change was first considered by Jetstar, compared to the date they notified you? We know for Qantas, sometimes they make a change, but only notify passengers when they determine it is convenient for them to do so. This is important because if they considered the change during a sale period, but held off notifying passengers until after the sale had finished, I would be looking to take advantage of the cheaper sale fares.

As unfair as it seems, the 'no refunds', 'no changes' policy is one-sided when it comes to cheaper fares. This is something you contractually agree to as a passenger, and at the same time, you also agree that the airline can change its schedule. The airline will reaccommodate you, or you can get a full refund at that point. Not even European Union passenger rights (arguably some of the strongest, if not the strongest in the world), will compensate you for a delay or cancellation which is notified 5 months in advance.

 

[Limewood]

Yep had a problem just transferring SYD/HNL/SYD flights on JQ, was stuffed around and given various costings from 3 operators, the attitude of some really stinks, never again for us.

 

[JB expat]

JBexpat - what was the bottom line out of all of this? You got a refund, but what did the new flights end up costing you? (ie how much did you save?)

I wonder what date the schedule change was first considered by Jetstar, compared to the date they notified you? We know for Qantas, sometimes they make a change, but only notify passengers when they determine it is convenient for them to do so. This is important because if they considered the change during a sale period, but held off notifying passengers until after the sale had finished, I would be looking to take advantage of the cheaper sale fares.

1 - I don't know what the "cost" is as I decided to book with FF points - so doing a comparison of true savings is very hard to do - it did cost me a lot of points, but given we have nothing else this year that I need them for, I didn't care

2 - what I had originally wanted (and in my mind paid a huge premium for), was direct flights - once I booked these, so many other $$ bookings were made for myself and other family members - other flights/accommodation/car rental - as I have the longest and most expensive journey - I was granted the first off the block status - my entire family deferred to my booking needs which was all for naught (and did cost them more as there were cheaper flight options on their end but not ones that matched my original JQ booking dates)

3 - your second paragraph is key to me and I would LOVE to know this as I have no confidence in JQ playing by the rules - I assume that we, as consumers, will NEVER be privy to this info - in fact, I doubt that if the deceptive behavior did occur, there is little to document this - and if there is, it would require lawyers, a court order and lots of expense to find it

4 - what I want is what I still believe is the "right thing" by way of customer service - at this point - all that is, re: the single JQ leg of my new booking: the ability to pick seats in advance, have iPads reserved, have the luggage allowance that I booked (and paid for) on my original JQ booking applied, at no charge. In my view (and this is not said to offend anyone), Australians seem to expect NOTHING in terms of customer service. I do. I find the way Australian consumers are treating to be appalling - and the fact that everyone seems to accept it, well, I don't get it.

 

[JB expat]

Limewood - Care to detail your issues? I'm curious - I do think that some of what they do is deliberately deceptive (and if not that, at least in breach of some trade practices laws that consumer protection groups should get on top of).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

1 - I don't know what the "cost" is as I decided to book with FF points - so doing a comparison of true savings is very hard to do - it did cost me a lot of points, but given we have nothing else this year that I need them for, I didn't care

2 - what I had originally wanted (and in my mind paid a huge premium for), was direct flights - once I booked these, so many other $$ bookings were made for myself and other family members - other flights/accommodation/car rental - as I have the longest and most expensive journey - I was granted the first off the block status - my entire family deferred to my booking needs which was all for naught (and did cost them more as there were cheaper flight options on their end but not ones that matched my original JQ booking dates)

3 - your second paragraph is key to me and I would LOVE to know this as I have no confidence in JQ playing by the rules - I assume that we, as consumers, will NEVER be privy to this info - in fact, I doubt that if the deceptive behavior did occur, there is little to document this - and if there is, it would require lawyers, a court order and lots of expense to find it

4 - what I want is what I still believe is the "right thing" by way of customer service - at this point - all that is, re: the single JQ leg of my new booking: the ability to pick seats in advance, have iPads reserved, have the luggage allowance that I booked (and paid for) on my original JQ booking applied, at no charge. In my view (and this is not said to offend anyone), Australians seem to expect NOTHING in terms of customer service. I do. I find the way Australian consumers are treating to be appalling - and the fact that everyone seems to accept it, well, I don't get it.

If jetstar has another 'sale' you can always rebook at the lower price and cancel your FF booking.

Airlines regularly publish schedule changes - often way in advance. Airlineroute (.net) is a good website for that... they publish everything. But a quick look on there doesn't seem to show your Jetstar change. Often airlineroute will publish aircraft and schedule changes well before airlines notify their passengers, and checking the website will give you a heads-up to make alternative bookings before everyone else gets the chance.

If (and it's a big 'if) it turned out JQ had made the change during the sale period it would be an easy thing to take to your local consumer affairs office. There is little cost, and no lawyers involved for small claims. However, finding the change date is key. Maybe someone with real time knowledge on here will have the answer?

Unfortunately once you cancelled your original flight and received a full refund, carrying over the 'extras' won't apply. There is no real contractual basis for that. A customer service gesture? Maybe, but I doubt they're gonna come to the party. And even if they said they would, whether that translates to your flight on the day you fly... who knows.

 

[JessicaTam]

I'm sorry you had a such a hard road to learning this lesson.

It's a lesson I learned after being stuffed around by JQ with cancellations of booked flights, and being rebooked on to a flight departing on Xmas Day without asking me whether it was suitable.

The joys of a low cost carrier.

Expect nothing and you won't be disappointed.

 

[JB expat]

If jetstar has another 'sale' you can always rebook at the lower price and cancel your FF booking.

very good point - will watch out for this...if I can summon up the energy - I think this is part of their strategy - to exhaust the consumer so that they just "let it go"

If (and it's a big 'if) it turned out JQ had made the change during the sale period it would be an easy thing to take to your local consumer affairs office. There is little cost, and no lawyers involved for small claims. However, finding the change date is key. Maybe someone with real time knowledge on here will have the answer?

the change was made after the sale - but my point was that I think this was deliberate - if they had made the change during the sale, so many passengers would have terminated their booking and rebooked at the Sale Price - this is what you can't find out - did they time this deliberately making it impossible for those who couldn't accept the change in schedule to take advantage of the sale[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately once you cancelled your original flight and received a full refund, carrying over the 'extras' won't apply. There is no real contractual basis for that. A customer service gesture? Maybe, but I doubt they're gonna come to the party. And even if they said they would, whether that translates to your flight on the day you fly... who knows.

Well, it's a party they should seriously consider attending...I don't get why anyone with a choice flies with them - EVER

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well, it's a party they should seriously consider attending...I don't get why anyone with a choice flies with them - EVER

I fly them because I've actually had some really good flights! I have always flown their starclass ('business' class) - purchased on sale... and have had non-stop flights with good service and good crews. We had a 24 hour delay in Honolulu and were put up in a great hotel (balconies overlooking the beach) and a USD75 voucher (per person) to have dinner. Couldn't have asked for more (as a leisure traveller that is... if I'd been on business it would have been different).

Undoubtedly flying economy, in a middle row somewhere with limited leg-room, no free meals, no alcohol and little/no entertainment (unless you pay considerably for all of them) and a 10.5 hour flight to HNL might be slightly different... especially if you paid full price and a sale came out a few days later

 

[medhead]

4 - what I want is what I still believe is the "right thing" by way of customer service - at this point - all that is, re: the single JQ leg of my new booking: the ability to pick seats in advance, have iPads reserved, have the luggage allowance that I booked (and paid for) on my original JQ booking applied, at no charge. In my view (and this is not said to offend anyone), Australians seem to expect NOTHING in terms of customer service. I do. I find the way Australian consumers are treating to be appalling - and the fact that everyone seems to accept it, well, I don't get it.

It all depends on the service being purchased. With Jetstar I expect nothing. They are a low cost airline, the whole business model is operating at the bare minimum, even when paying massive prices for the airfare. I know that if I book jetstar.

In other service areas it is variable, rather than expecting nothing, I would say my service needs are minimal. As an example, with reference to the USA that is held up for excellent service, I find the service standards shown in movies to be appalling. I don't need or want to have my backside kissed. That isn't service to me. Timely order taking, bring my meal and then leave me alone to enjoy - That is good service. Maybe it's just that Australian's don't need to have their egos pampered, rather than expecting nothing.

 

[JB expat]

I have no idea what you mean by the service standards shown in movies - are movies the evidence you are using for US service standards? or are you talking about movie theaters which doesn't make much sense.

I don't need my backside kissed. I need to be respected as a consumer - treated with overall fairness and with a view towards a longer term relationship rather than how much $$ can we squeeze without giving anything back...and "she'll forget" - we can take advantage of her the next time she needs us as her choices here are so limited

 

[Alanslegal]

The least helpful were the "suck it up Princess" type.

I am not afraid to put my hands up on this one. As a person with almost 5,000 posts here on AFF, I will have continue this stance. You did BUY a fare that YOU were HAPPY with. NOBODY was holding a [insert tool/weapon] forcing YOU to complete the transaction with Jetstar. Pricing for perishable goods, which airline tickets are, fluctuate. Sometimes it goes up, sometimes it goes down. The point is you bought a ticket and sadly for you, it went down afterwards. That's the luck of the draw. IF the tickets went up afterwards, would Jetstar ring you up and say "hey, the tickets are now $400 more, please pay up!" Of course not. Accept this process and accept the fact that this pricing situation could happen with ANY airline.

 

[JB expat]

I am not afraid to put my hands up on this one. As a person with almost 5,000 posts here on AFF, I will have continue this stance. You did BUY a fare that YOU were HAPPY with. NOBODY was holding a [insert tool/weapon] forcing YOU to complete the transaction with Jetstar. Pricing for perishable goods, which airline tickets are, fluctuate. Sometimes it goes up, sometimes it goes down. The point is you bought a ticket and sadly for you, it went down afterwards. That's the luck of the draw. IF the tickets went up afterwards, would Jetstar ring you up and say "hey, the tickets are now $400 more, please pay up!" Of course not. Accept this process and accept the fact that this pricing situation could happen with ANY airline.

I think you missed my entire point of this new thread - as I start out - I did "suck it up" until 3 weeks ago...

 

[medhead]

I have no idea what you mean by the service standards shown in movies - are movies the evidence you are using for US service standards? or are you talking about movie theaters which doesn't make much sense.

I don't need my backside kissed. I need to be respected as a consumer - treated with overall fairness and with a view towards a longer term relationship rather than how much $$ can we squeeze without giving anything back...and "she'll forget" - we can take advantage of her the next time she needs us as her choices here are so limited

It is still wrong to say Australian's expect nothing. This Australian is just aware of the service that Jetstar is going to offer me. I don't expect to receive something that they're not prepared to offer. It is a hard lesson to learn the first time, but you seem to have picked it up now.

I probably would have said movies theatres if that is what I meant. If it doesn't make sense there is probably a reason for that.

 

[mannej]

I am not afraid to put my hands up on this one. As a person with almost 5,000 posts here on AFF, I will have continue this stance. You did BUY a fare that YOU were HAPPY with. NOBODY was holding a [insert tool/weapon] forcing YOU to complete the transaction with Jetstar. Pricing for perishable goods, which airline tickets are, fluctuate. Sometimes it goes up, sometimes it goes down. The point is you bought a ticket and sadly for you, it went down afterwards. That's the luck of the draw. IF the tickets went up afterwards, would Jetstar ring you up and say "hey, the tickets are now $400 more, please pay up!" Of course not. Accept this process and accept the fact that this pricing situation could happen with ANY airline.

Thanks Alanslegal, I am in the same boat as you here.

I also note the subtle shot the OP had at the start of this thread.

As far as I am concerned, the saga has started once JQ cancelled the OP's direct flight and not when the price for the original flight dropped.
As I have been labelled the least helpful, I could just go suck it up but I do feel empathy for the situation of the OP now. Lucky for the OP they have 4+ months until the flights, so it is not as if the flights were cancelled on them last minute. However as you have had the original fare refunded, there should be no expectation of the extras on the new fare (unless you have paid the extra for them).

Which flights are you on now, as I would suggest reading up on the transfer process? Without knowing the flights, I wouldn't want the extra stress on the traveling party should you rock up to MEL and find that they will only check your luggage to SYD, where you have to collect it and lug it over to the International terminal (this crossed my mind due to your comment on wishing to purchase the shorter connection on a separate ticket). This information should be available on the JQ website.

I do wish you well with the trip, but keep in mind that JQ is a LCC, and as such some of their policies and procedures do reflect this.

 

[medhead]

(I rebooked my entire trip with points - plus the ridiculous taxes etc. charge - unfortunately, the only flight from Syd to HNL on the date I need to travel is a JQ flight which I booked as part of my Q FF points booking)

Also, as an aside - someone mentioned to me that because I'm transferring in Syd to International via the shuttle, because my international leg is on a Jetstar flight, I will be asked to pay $5/person for the shuttle. I find this hard to believe - I've never paid for the shuttle in the past...but I've never flown Jetstar internationally in the past either.

In terms of the transfer, As I read it the booking is all on QF except the SYD-HNL flight which is on JQ. If MEL-qf-xSYD-jq-HNL is booked then QF should check baggage all the way through, plus be able to issue boarding passes for the JQ flight. The transfer bus should also be available. Sydney Domestic Airport (T3) Guide | Qantas

Transferring from T2 and T3 (Domestic Airports) to T1 (International Airport):
The Transfer Lounge is located airside (after passing through the security check point), at Gate 15 in T3. A shuttle bus service is available to passengers that are travelling or have travelled on a Qantas flight (including codeshare flights) or oneworld flight. The shuttle buses operate every 10-20 minutes from 6am to 9.40pm AEST. On arrival at T1 proceed up the escalator, through immigration and security to your departure gate.

You need to go from T2 to T3, walking, through Security then down to gate 15 for the bus. If they aren't going to check your luggage through, for whatever reason, then the train would be the best option at a cost of $5 each, maybe cheaper for kids. You should be able to get to the train station from T2 quicker than you can get to Gate 15 in T3.

 

[JB expat]

However as you have had the original fare refunded, there should be no expectation of the extras on the new fare (unless you have paid the extra for them).

Which flights are you on now, as I would suggest reading up on the transfer process? Without knowing the flights, I wouldn't want the extra stress on the traveling party should you rock up to MEL and find that they will only check your luggage to SYD, where you have to collect it and lug it over to the International terminal (this crossed my mind due to your comment on wishing to purchase the shorter connection on a separate ticket). This information should be available on the JQ website.

I do wish you well with the trip, but keep in mind that JQ is a LCC, and as such some of their policies and procedures do reflect this.

I have to say "thanks" for the advice (it is appreciated). I will definitely call Q and ask re: baggage although I am now dreading the answer. I do hope that if I show them my JQ luggage allowance (whether it is purchased or given as a gesture which the general consensus seems to be "not a chance"), they will check it through - with 2 little kids and a transfer, this is a big deal. If we have to wait for it, I think one of us will get the kids to the International terminal while the other waits for the luggage and then runs to the transfer although running may not be necessary - see next sentence. We also have a long transfer time (longer than I'd like, but with the points being raised, perhaps not a bad thing).

I get that JQ is a LCC - can you tell that I don't like LCC? - I do try to avoid them at all costs - literally - in the past, I have paid significantly more for a full service airlines just to avoid all the extras/hassles/etc. that come with LCC. My original booking was with JQ because it offered the direct options. I placed a premium on this for the first time - NEVER again. Regarding my re-booked trip, with 1 JQ leg - I had no choice given that I was locked into the dates. Maybe I am not representative of the general population - but does anyone like LCC? wouldn't most people prefer one fare (a higher fare) that is all inclusive like the good ole days? I don't get the appeal of worrying about the weight of your luggage (within reason) and wondering if you will have food and/or entertainment on a flight.

 

[JB expat]

In terms of the transfer, As I read it the booking is all on QF except the SYD-HNL flight which is on JQ. If MEL-qf-xSYD-jq-HNL is booked then QF should check baggage all the way through, plus be able to issue boarding passes for the JQ flight. The transfer bus should also be available. Sydney Domestic Airport (T3) Guide | Qantas



You need to go from T2 to T3, walking, through Security then down to gate 15 for the bus. If they aren't going to check your luggage through, for whatever reason, then the train would be the best option at a cost of $5 each, maybe cheaper for kids. You should be able to get to the train station from T2 quicker than you can get to Gate 15 in T3.

Thanks! again - much appreciated! I am going to give JQ a few days to call me back. As mentioned, someone from Q's Exec offices in Customer Care called me directly in response to my letter (note - ultimately they gave me nothing, but the call put Q back in my good books - lesson here for Customer Service) and committed to contacting Jetstar and having them call me - she also gave me her direct number so I can followup with her if JQ does not ring.

I didn't know that about the train and given how much my kids like trains and how much time we may have, this may become an "activity" ... I will need to do research.

PS - correct - all but one leg is on Q

 

[medhead]

Depending on how long the transfer a quick trip into the city might be preferable to sitting around an airport.

Airport link website. http://www.airportlink.com.au/index.php
Price is now $5.80 for a transfer. A child is 4 to 16, might be cheaper. But you only need to pay for 1 child. Under 4 might be free I can't find the info.

But I think you'll get luggage checked through and you are definitely eligible for the transfer bus. Just having to go passed security means you can't use it if you have to also take your luggage.