Angry pax declines to Raise Reclined Seat During Service...

[Quickstatus]

We have not got the other party’s version. In situations like this, it is unwise to assume that one side is right and the other side wrong.

 

[DC3]

We have not got the other party’s version ...

… and we never will ..... ?

 

[Forg]

However on LH, the passenger in front FRA-SIN in Y+ was on full recline before takeoff and stayed that way for the entire flight including descent and despite me requesting twice, the crew refused even to speak to the guy in front shrugging shoulders and retorting, "he must be tired".

I don’t think it’s a crime in 1st-world countries if you spray space-filler insulation foam in this guy’s mouth & he dies. It’s considered improvement of the human race.

 

[wandering_fred]

I think not reclining during landing and takeoff is a safety requirement. In this case, if the FAs were "uhh", my email would reflect this.... And a non-response from the airline might provoke an email to appropriate aviation authorities.

In economy during meals, reclining (except in the last row in the cabin) is poor form and I have seen FAs ask to "correct" this.

Just wandering
Fred

 

[aikman]

I just flew VA and the crew proactively made people unrecline before the meal services. Same with JL recently. Never saw this on many QF flights.

As an alternative response to this situation, what if you also reclined. The person behind you will complain but you can then blame the person in front of you. Will the crew take action then if a whole column of people gets angry?

 

[Quickstatus]

It’s like priority boarding. Some enforce it others don’t.

 

[moa999]

Opening post also says this happened during drink service, not meal service.

Quite different imho, particularly if there is a half table option

 

[juddles]

Do you think that's all we should expect when contacting/complaining to an airline? A 'template response'?

Unfortunately, this is exactly what I would expect. Not that I think it is ideal, but the reality of airlines is such that they have to scrimp on EVERYTHING, including responses. With the average airfare producing about $20 profit to the airline, additional things like thoughtful responses to common complaints are just simply not in their ability to provide. The cost of a human reading an email, and replying with something personalised, has just killed the profit on that ticket. And if the airline was to put in writing anything that validates the pax complaint (which is what we would want) just puts them into a worse position in a situation that really is beyond their realistic control. In every group of pax there are going to be some less-than-ideal citizens. They have no way to prevent this.

Maybe the issue of seat reclining could in the future be dealt with like the window shades in the latest aircraft - where the coughpit can control these during specific times? But how would this be fair to the pax that just wants to sleep? Is it fair that the pax who is tired and wants to attempt rest has their slightly improved chance of this removed by the pax behind them that wants to have a drink or meal that prevents the forward pax using the scant reclining option?

At the end of the day, you get what you pay for. And if you pay for a seat that has insufficient room if the person in front of you reclines, then maybe concentrate on just how cheap your airfare was.

 

[Deleted member]

Last week, I flew home HKG-MEL on CX163 on an E fare, in the middle seat of the middle group of seats. I had a bad experience with the pax in front, who declined my polite request to raise his reclined seat when drinks service began – both services. He berated me angrily both times; in fact, I would have felt unsafe if there hadn’t been the barrier of seat-backs inbetween us. My gestures and requests to cabin crew, right beside us with the trolley, proved fruitless. When he failed to respond to their request, they agreed he had “the right” to remain reclined, and asked me to give him five minutes. After some more pugnacious rudeness to me, he raised his seat and I thanked him.

If the aisle hadn’t been clogged with the trolley, I would have asked staff to get the flight director. I gave in to the shame of “making a fuss”, and to some sympathy for the two young women trying to serve drinks. But I am shocked and disturbed that this angry man was allowed to rant at me and was supported by cabin crew, on both meal services.

My email to CX the next day elicited an automatic note to the effect they aim to respond within 10 days, but business is so busy it may take longer. NOT good enough!

The joys of flying in the back :-(

 

[rsellens]

Unfortunately, it was his seat to recline as he pleased inflight.

However, I know where you are coming from as I have experienced similar on QF during meal service. The FAs will not intervene. Certainly very poor form on his part.

I have been on QF in the past where there FA has told the person in front of me that that it was a requirement to taise their seat back during meal service.

 

[DC3]

I have been on QF in the past where there FA has told the person in front of me that that it was a requirement to taise their seat back during meal service.

Yes. Not saying that it doesn’t happen, just that I have never seen it happen that way. Maybe very compliant and thoughtful pax around me usually so don’t need to be reminded? But FAs don’t always intervene in my experience. Hit and miss perhaps.

 

[Forg]

Not saying that it doesn’t happen, just that I have never seen it happen that way. Maybe very compliant and thoughtful pax around me usually so don’t need to be reminded? But FAs don’t always intervene in my experience. Hit and miss perhaps.

IMHO it'd be a tough call as an FA.

As one of those who just never sleeps, I'm firmly in the camp with others who have no problem with sticking an aircraft-logo'd spork through the eye of The Recliner (I'm willing to go with the non-dominant eye first, at least they get a warning before being totally blinded).
But on the other hand, not being able to sleep after 14 hours trapped in a tiny Y seat with your knees jammed up against the seat in front is certainly one of Dante's levels of hell, so if I were one of the Sleepers I'd DEARLY love to be able to get through the ordeal by not being awake for it. And consider it a bit rude if someone insisted I had to suffer through that flight when I've paid my money in the expectation I'll be able to sleep through it.

So as an FA, you've got to look at both sides of it. In terms of the product the airline is offering & which pax have paid for, having someone recline into your face & stopping you from reading or watching TV/movies is expected, as is being able to recline … you kinda have to work to expectations.
The airlines probably don't mind, it sells Y+ seats which offer a Yx1.2 product at a Yx3 price ...

 

[Quickstatus]

...And consider it a bit rude if someone insisted I had to suffer through that flight when I've paid my money in the expectation I'll be able to sleep through it....

So as an FA, you've got to look at both sides of it. ....you kinda have to work to expectations.

The airlines probably don't mind, it sells Y+ seats which offer a Yx1.2 product at a Yx3 price ...

Expectations of sleep in Y?. Maybe unrealistic for many passengers. Even airlines don’t use the word sleep in J or F class. QF uses “rest”.
But yes paying customers expect a lot, but I don’t think a FA’s role is to work to expectations. Then have certain duties to carry out, thats it. Meeting customer expectations is not necessarily high on that list, though in carrying out their duties they do meet a variety of customer expectations.

The old chestnut arises all the time - the relativities between value and price. Again it’s expectations which colour that relativity

Customers/passengers are indeed hard to please

 

[Flying_man]

On recent flight rude man in front had seat recline. When meal gets served he does not move his seat, but he leans forward to eat his meal. I try to tell him to move seat but he has noise canceled headphones. I yell “hey buddy, hey buddy, hey buddy” but he not responds, then the other rude man next to me tell me to be quiet. You can’t win against rude people so may as well give up.

 

[Forg]

But yes paying customers expect a lot, but I don’t think a FA’s role is to work to expectations.

I probably mis-phrased that; my meaning is probably clearer if I say it's the FA's job to work with expectations.
What they have to deal with relates to what their passengers are expecting, whether that be the expectation of The Recliner or the expectation of someone who's less of a … disgusting selfish pig.

 

[FL360]

Now I can select bulk head seats for free so this problem generally won't affect me, but I generally recline 1/3 to 1/4 right after take off, in this case no one will ask me to recline back up during meal services.
I will recline to the full, if I want, only after the meal trays has been collected... a very civilised approach IMO.

so what happens if the passenger in front decided to recline during meal services and refuse to listen to FA's ? there are two solutions, generally speaking, for CX.

1. you give in, eat with much restricted space.
2. you recline as well, and when the pax at the back complaint to the FA you tell them I don't have enough space to eat because the pax in front won't recline, then the poor BC will have to get the FP, or even the ISM to solve the issue, and the black lady will generally fix this quickly..(I have tried this approach like 15 years ago and it worked.)
3. he says he has the right to recline, and you also own the IFE, and you like to switch music every 2 seconds by passing hard on the screen.... which is his seatback...

I have observed that the tendency to recline to the full at all times and not listen to FA's instruction tends to be a habit from residents from a certain region of the world...

 

[Forg]

2. you recline as well, and when the pax at the back complaint to the FA you tell them I don't have enough space to eat because the pax in front won't recline, then the poor BC will have to get the FP, or even the ISM to solve the issue, and the black lady will generally fix this quickly

You make it sound like they summon Judge Judy ... or better still, Sister Mary Stigmata from The Blues Brothers.

 

[FL360]

of course, she really can fix everything, such as in air op up to J

Judge Judy

 

[JohnK]

In relation to your last paragraph, I am not sure what you expect CX to do here apart from a template response? The not good enough comment is a tad harsh.

Not harsh at all. CX don't do customer service very well at all. Whether that's in the air or on the ground.

Quite a few years ago, I was in business class and had my dinner with the bald head of the man in front literally in front of my tray. Crew refused to wake him during meal service. Not good enough.

They requested him to raise his seat and he refused, asserting it was his right. One of the FAs actually turned to me and agreed, it was his right. No point my asking where was MY right? No point, too, arguing with an angry man.

No need to argue with him. These type of people don't respond too well to logic and only think about themselves. He can't hurt you.

I would have tapped the IFE screen as hard as possible. I would have crossed my legs and pushed my knee into his seat as often as possible and as hard as possible and I would have used the top of the seat to get up as often as possible. Yes childish but it's the only option that will get the person in front to compromise.

My only advice is to try and avoid these situations even if it means paying for seat selection.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The OP said nothing about a MEAL service.... they said "Drinks". If it was the actual meal service then the other pax was definitely out of line.... but if it was just drinks?? Ive never heard of pax being expected to put their seats up just because drinks are being served....

Reading through the thread just now this was exactly my reaction.

The OP mentioned the 'drinks' service. Nothing about a meal.

Where a tray table is attached to the seat in front, it is often very difficult, if not impossible, to eat a meal if the seat in front is reclined. This is why they ask pax to put their seats up.

Drinks are different.

And proactively asking another passenger to put their seat upright if there is no meal is perhaps asking just a bit too soon.

Quite a few years ago, I was in business class and had my dinner with the bald head of the man in front literally in front of my tray. Crew refused to wake him during meal service. Not good enough.

With the old CX J seat the tray table was in the armrest. This means the reclined seat in front doesn't prevent you having full access to your meal tray and eating your meal. There is no reason for sleeping or relaxing passenger in front to be disturbed. (Unfortunately that you didn't like the bald head is not really an issue here in terms of you being able to eat.)