ANZ Cancelling or Suspending Points

[Foreigner]

Indeed once when Amex tried to deny me 2.9 million MR points I put the onus on them in a 16 page submission to show where and how I had breeched their T&C. They wrote to me advising that I had had "suspicious spend". The promo itself had scant T&C but what caught out many in the same promo from gaining the points that they had earnt was the T&C of MR Program itself. I had read those during the life of the promo and took pains to make sure that I did not breach them as well as the promos almost non-existant T&C, despite what at first glance looked to be easy ways to earn vast amounts of points if one only looked at the promo.

So one cannot really complain when the bank/airline enforces the T&C. It cuts both ways. One may of course still take the punt.....

But yes it would hurt like hell to lose that many points.

And as I am sure that there are many on this forum who have breeched the same T&C (or similar on other cards) as the OP I would strongly suspect that there will be a rush of point transfers.

What possibly could be suspicious spend on Amex?

 

[kpc]

There is nothing to lose by complaining to the ombudsman...I know someone who clawed back a million points from one of the big 4 banks in a similar position.

 

[kpc]

What possibly could be suspicious spend on Amex?

We've heard this story before.

 

[Nutcase]

I had a similar incident. ANZ linked someone elses card to my QF account for a year and then clawed them all back leaving me in the red.

 

[Mattg]

I had a similar incident. ANZ linked someone elses card to my QF account for a year and then clawed them all back leaving me in the red.

That's concerning. Was it ANZ's fault? Did you get the points back?

 

[Nutcase]

That's concerning. Was it ANZ's fault? Did you get the points back?

I was the one getting the points. The other guy got his points and I shut up. I had spent a lot of them so I copped it as I deemed it be be fair and paid them back over time.

 

[JohnPhelan]

I was the one getting the points. The other guy got his points and I shut up. I had spent a lot of them so I copped it as I deemed it be be fair and paid them back over time.

Did you not wonder where all the extra points were coming from?

 

[andye]

Did you not wonder where all the extra points were coming from?

But would anybody here ring to query it?

 

[lovetravellingoz]

What possibly could be suspicious spend on Amex?

Amex in my case Amex never did tell me which they deemed "suspicous" and so there was probably an element of bluff on their part. However as part of my submission I gave some examples of what to them may have looked suspious such as multiple purchases in a short time at David Jones, but at DJ's it was not bill splitting as DJ's makes you buy per department (ie bakery, meet, music etc).

However I know that others lost points for bill-splitting after receiving similar letters (I avoided that except where it wasa genuine option sich as paying monthly rather than yearly etc). ie What many are doing at Bankwest could get you suspended with Amex.

 

[UP4014]

I had a similar incident. ANZ linked someone elses card to my QF account for a year and then clawed them all back leaving me in the red.

Could have closed the QF account for a period then decided to join up again?

 

[JohnK]

This sort of thing sends shivers down my spine. First we had Citi behaving badly, now ANZ. It seems like none of the banks can now be trusted as a warehouse for points.

Stuff it, I'm moving all mine. Let's see how these mongrels go trying to claw them back out of a frequent flyer account.

Don't be too sure of that. Spending the points would be your only guarantee.

What possibly could be suspicious spend on Amex?

One of them was multiple 1c transactions funny enough earning 1,000 Amex MR points each time.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

One of them was multiple 1c transactions funny enough earning 1,000 Amex MR points each time.

As in bill-splitting, which was not what I did I would add.

 

[JohnK]

As in bill-splitting, which was not what I did I would add.

Apologies. Never intended to imply that you did anything of the sort.

The 1c transactions was one of the biggest news on that AFF thread early on in the promotion.

 

[Foreigner]

I'm naive.

 

[Nutcase]

Could have closed the QF account for a period then decided to join up again?

Status anxiety. I was Platinum

 

[equus]

Ok found it.

Using the credit card account

(3) How you can use the credit card account
(a) The credit card account must be used wholly and exclusively for your personal, domestic or household use

Unfortunately that seems to be pretty clear cut.

Many people do of course put through business spend on private cards, but in your case they have examined the spend.

Indeed it does seem fairly clear cut, and those conditions are there for a very good reason. The "personal, domestic or household use" part will be derived from Consumer Credit code provisions. There are protections available to consumers (hardship provisions and the like), which only apply to consumer credit, which mean that banks have to treat consumer and business accounts differently.

There have been comments about "why do the banks care if it is business spend - it is all the same as far as they are concerned". Actually, not the case. We are talking credit accounts here, and different types of lending have to be classified differently, and have different capital adequacy requirements, hence the cost of a "business" credit account to the bank may be far higher in cost of capital than a "consumer" account.

The bank cannot turn a blind eye to the transaction types, as it is then risking not complying with prudential requirements. Small amounts are not so significant, as the actual classification probably only covers "predominantly", and the whole exercise is about risk - but make the majority of your spend business expenses on a consumer account at your own peril.

Amex is a totally different beast, as it is not a bank, so totally different rules apply - with much more ability for Amex to manage their risk as they see fit (there being no depositors being protected by the banking regulations).

 

[Nutcase]

Business cards also tend to have a higher interchange than some personal cards so the bank earns more that way. This was the old trick that Citibank tried with the old Citi gold business card when they made it available to consumers. Visa were not happy.

 

[burmans]

I was the one getting the points. The other guy got his points and I shut up. I had spent a lot of them so I copped it as I deemed it be be fair and paid them back over time.

Well I'm glad you copped it but kind of weird behaviour from an experienced banking lawyer. Being such an experienced banking lawyer you would of course know that similar cases where a bank has mistakenly put money in an account and the recipient spent it (knowing it wasn't theirs) have lead to successful convictions for theft. No wonder you wee prepared to cop it, given you quite possibly knew it could have ended up worse.

 

[Nutcase]

Well I'm glad you copped it but kind of weird behaviour from an experienced banking lawyer. Being such an experienced banking lawyer you would of course know that similar cases where a bank has mistakenly put money in an account and the recipient spent it (knowing it wasn't theirs) have lead to successful convictions for theft. No wonder you wee prepared to cop it, given you quite possibly knew it could have ended up worse.

You kids get really upset when someone takes your toys away or you get caught with your fingers in the cookie jar.

You're also panicking about the Bank West QF account issue and whether the bank just pings your for "Abuse of the card or account" and claws back the points and closes your account or if they escalate it to the fraud area for further scrutiny.

This is actually a very serious matter. Outliers (customers that is) stand out like the proverbial given how few of these QF accounts are actually in circulation and how small the industry is.

In my specific case over 10 years ago there was a clerical error that the bank made in temporarily linking someone else's Visa card to my FF membership. I copped that and they clawed back the 20,000 points and I kept my platinum status with QF albeit with a 10,000 negative points balance until I topped that up the next month.

I didn't deliberately automate 120,000 transactions over an 18 month period and breach the T's and C's as far as "abuse of card or account" or "fraudulent use" is concerned.

Your situation is somewhat more fresh and juicy and involves manipulation of the payments system. Big difference.

 

[burmans]

You kids get really upset when someone takes your toys away or you get caught with your fingers in the cookie jar.

Theres a difference between a clerical error that the bank made in linking someone elses FF membership to my account and 120,000 deliberate transactions instigated by a card holder in breach of the T's and C's as far as "abuse of card or account". I paid them back for a start.

Would be very interested to hear how you paid this back given your previous admission you had spent the points. And the other previous claim that the bank then clawed it back. Doesn't sound to like you paid it back, it sounds like they took it leaving a negative balance. You really need to get your story straight.

In the cases I mention there was a clerical error in the money being sent to the wrong account too, this does not mean the recipient was entitled to spend the money.

Oh and yes, they paid it back too eventually in some cases, didn't stop the theft conviction.