Are you Going to use the COVIDsafe App?

[serfty]

I did research this a fair bit and I decided I was happy to:

Privacy Policy

The COVIDSafe app speeds up contacting people exposed to coronavirus (COVID-19). This helps us support and protect you, your friends and family. Please read the content on this page before downloading.

www.health.gov.au

 

[dajop]

Australia...well stubborn trumps practical, or effective.

Politicans in Australia never admit fault, presumably for fear that their opponents will exploit it. But maybe a little of humility, an admission, yeah we stuffed up but we'll fix it, would go a long way to earning respect.

 

[moa999]

those in charge refused to use the Apple and Google model

Those APIs weren't ready when Covidsafe was released and have only been out 4 weeks, so it was based on the Singapore system.
They also have their own set of issues (no notification to authorities or followup)

Neither will work particularly well when you only have 30-odd% downloading it.

 

[jb747]

Politicans in Australia never admit fault, presumably for fear that their opponents will exploit it. But maybe a little of humility, an admission, yeah we stuffed up but we'll fix it, would go a long way to earning respect.

Rule one of leadership....

 

[Gremlin]

I have the app and had a message like that yesterday, stating it had found no connections in the past 48 hours and I should check whether it was working. Problem is, in the prior 48 hours I had actually been in contact with several others as I had attended a (small scale) event. Many whom I'm aware have the app (eg the rest of my family).

My handset is 3 years old and is in the set of phones that had the "initial known issue with Bluetooth". At least every couple of days I get a message that the app is not active despite keeping it open 24/7. Yesterday I got the above message. I have very little confidence in the ability of the app to work as advertised.

So I got the "no connections found in the past 48 hours" message again yesterday morning. After having a BBQ with friends and family, most of whom have the app, on Saturday night. Frustrating. I want to do the right thing but this is a lemon...

 

[OATEK]

So I got the "no connections found in the past 48 hours" message again yesterday morning. After having a BBQ with friends and family, most of whom have the app, on Saturday night. Frustrating. I want to do the right thing but this is a lemon...

Was the iPhone or Android? I have never seen this message on my android handset.

 

[Gremlin]

Was the iPhone or Android? I have never seen this message on my android handset.

iPhone 8.

Matt Canavan was quoted yesterday saying that it "hadn't worked as advertised". He mentioned some technical issue with iPhone's Bluetooth capabilities that was a major blocker to it operating as intended. First time a Govt Minister has acknowledged that...

 

[OATEK]

iPhone 8.

Matt Canavan was quoted yesterday saying that it "hadn't worked as advertised". He mentioned some technical issue with iPhone's Bluetooth capabilities that was a major blocker to it operating as intended. First time a Govt Minister has acknowledged that...

Former Government Minister. But in the governing parties.

 

[OATEK]

NSW Health advice today (my bolding):

“For one of the cases where NSW Health accessed the COVIDSafe App data, a previously unrecognised exposure date from a known venue, Mounties, was identified,” Dr McAnulty said.

“This resulted in the identification of an additional 544 contacts. Two people in this group presented for testing and were subsequently confirmed to have COVID-19.”

So perhaps not completely useless.

 

[SydneySwan]

NSW Health advice today (my bolding):

“For one of the cases where NSW Health accessed the COVIDSafe App data, a previously unrecognised exposure date from a known venue, Mounties, was identified,” Dr McAnulty said.

“This resulted in the identification of an additional 544 contacts. Two people in this group presented for testing and were subsequently confirmed to have COVID-19.”

So perhaps not completely useless.

It would be good to know if this was on android or iPhone.

 

[SydneySwan]

SMH reported today that 'NSW Health is using Opal data to contact commuters'. No mention of the COVIDsafe app. The Opal card is the NSW public transport card like Myki in Melbourne and Go in Brisbane.

NSW Health 'strongly advising' commuters to wear masks, as Sydney CBD cluster grows

NSW Transport Minister Andrew Constance is urging commuters to wear masks, sit on the green dots and not travel if feeling unwell, as the state recorded seven new COVID-19 cases.

www.smh.com.au

 

[DC3]

SMH reported today that 'NSW Health is using Opal data to contact commuters'. No mention of the COVIDsafe app ..

Not much gets said about the COVID app any more.

 

[moa999]

Much easier on a bus where you tag in on the bus. Harder on other modes where they'd have to estimate what service you were on based on tap on/off times.

With only 30-40% using CovidSafe it simply can't be a primary tool.
Same for a restaurant or gym - they will use the check-in data first

 

[Himeno]

Much easier on a bus where you tag in on the bus. Harder on other modes where they'd have to estimate what service you were on based on tap on/off times.

It would depend on what data is recorded when a transport card is tagged on/off a service, and if that data changes based on mode of service.

At a minimum, it only needs to record card number. Depending on the systems pricing methods, (service mode pricing differences, peak vs off peak, zone/distance based pricing), it would also need to record tag times, locations and service mode used.
There can then be other data that the transport operator gets, but isn't required for pricing, such as the Canberra MyWay requiring a tag off, even though the flat rate pricing system does not require it.

Are you suggesting that Opal records more data for a bus tag then for a train tag?

If health services are contacting possible close contacts via public transport ticketing data, they would have to hope that everyone has their cards registered, otherwise they would just know that x card was used on the service in question, not who owns said card. Most systems using these cards for transport payment only require registration (and thus holder contact details) if they use auto/online charging or have a concession fare entitlement. If the holder pays the normal adult fares and recharge at a ticket machine or physical outlet like a newsagent, they don't have to have a registered card.

I have close to 30 of these transport payment cards from around the world, only 1 of which is registered.
If I were to travel on Melbourne's 96 Tram from MCEC to Swanston Street and then VIC Health needed to contact me, PTV isn't going to have any idea that the Myki was owned by me.
Meanwhile, if I used the route 31 bus in Canberra from Dickson to Belconnen and ACT Health wanted to contact people on that service, Transport Canberra would know exactly who owned the MyWay card I used.

 

[SydneySwan]

It would depend on what data is recorded when a transport card is tagged on/off a service, and if that data changes based on mode of service.

At a minimum, it only needs to record card number. Depending on the systems pricing methods, (service mode pricing differences, peak vs off peak, zone/distance based pricing), it would also need to record tag times, locations and service mode used.
There can then be other data that the transport operator gets, but isn't required for pricing, such as the Canberra MyWay requiring a tag off, even though the flat rate pricing system does not require it.

Are you suggesting that Opal records more data for a bus tag then for a train tag?

If health services are contacting possible close contacts via public transport ticketing data, they would have to hope that everyone has their cards registered, otherwise they would just know that x card was used on the service in question, not who owns said card. Most systems using these cards for transport payment only require registration (and thus holder contact details) if they use auto/online charging or have a concession fare entitlement. If the holder pays the normal adult fares and recharge at a ticket machine or physical outlet like a newsagent, they don't have to have a registered card.

I have close to 30 of these transport payment cards from around the world, only 1 of which is registered.
If I were to travel on Melbourne's 96 Tram from MCEC to Swanston Street and then VIC Health needed to contact me, PTV isn't going to have any idea that the Myki was owned by me.
Meanwhile, if I used the route 31 bus in Canberra from Dickson to Belconnen and ACT Health wanted to contact people on that service, Transport Canberra would know exactly who owned the MyWay card I used.

Apparently on the Sydney bus in question 13 of the 14 people on the bus have registered Opal cards.

I have travel cards from several cities in Australia and have registered all those that can be registered. I used to have Oyster, etc. for London but now they accept credit cards I use them instead. Presumably if you use a credit card to tap on / off then the cc company will provide contact tracers with contact details.

 

[Daver6]

Are you suggesting that Opal records more data for a bus tag then for a train tag?

I think the point is if you tag on on a bus, the assumption is you're on a specific bus until you tag off it. Tagging on as you enter and leave a train station doesn't give accurate information about which train you were on.

 

[moa999]

Correct Sydney buses you tag onboard, so the particular bus is identified.

Trains, light rail and ferry you tag at a gate or pole at the station/stop/wharf

 

[jb747]

When it was belatedly admitted that it really doesn't work with Apple devices (except in very restricted circumstances), and it was evident that they were never going to embrace the built in systems, I deleted it.

 

[DC3]

Correct Sydney buses you tag onboard, so the particular bus is identified.

Trains, light rail and ferry you tag at a gate or pole at the station/stop/wharf

Yes. This may be all a bit new to those of us who don’t use train/ferry/tram.

 

[dajop]

No longer use COVID safe as I've left Australia. Probably was never that much use to me in the 4.5 months I was there anyway, as only had fleeting visits to stores etc, usually when they were quiet, and also may have been useful catching Vline trains, but even then I was between 3 and 10m away from the nearest person

Now using the app it was derived from (called Trace Together) in Singapore, it actually tells you how many exchanges you've had with other users on any given day (just exchanges, not necessarily close contacts). Yesterday, when I really only left the apartment in the morning for a swim and late evening for a walk, quick visit to a store, only had 13 exchanges. On Sunday when I visited a busy hawker stall and walked along the shore, it said I had "339 Bluetooth exchanges". Also being in a semi-authoritarian state, you have to scan your physical ID, or scan a QR code using the app, when you enter or leave places, called "Safe Entry" , to track who is present in a shopping centre, individual store or restaurant etc at any given time for contract tracing purposes.

So now, it's not just google and apple ( I don't run facebook) , but also the Singapore government keep track of my movements.

 

[OATEK]

No longer use COVID safe as I've left Australia. Probably was never that much use to me in the 4.5 months I was there anyway, as only had fleeting visits to stores etc, usually when they were quiet, and also may have been useful catching Vline trains, but even then I was between 3 and 10m away from the nearest person

Now using the app it was derived from (called Trace Together) in Singapore, it actually tells you how many exchanges you've had with other users on any given day (just exchanges, not necessarily close contacts). Yesterday, when I really only left the apartment in the morning for a swim and late evening for a walk, quick visit to a store, only had 13 exchanges. On Sunday when I visited a busy hawker stall and walked along the shore, it said I had "339 Bluetooth exchanges". Also being in a semi-authoritarian state, you have to scan your physical ID, or scan a QR code using the app, when you enter or leave places, called "Safe Entry" , to track who is present in a shopping centre, individual store or restaurant etc at any given time for contract tracing purposes.

So now, it's not just google and apple ( I don't run facebook) , but also the Singapore government keep track of my movements.

TKWYA & WYA!