Arrested in Abu Dhabi for exposing a disabled park thief?

[Bandicoot]

Yep. I will never ever stay over. I banned my partner now husband from holding my hand at the airport. Does Qantas appreciate the risks to travellers?

 

[mannej]

Yep. I will never ever stay over. I banned my partner now husband from holding my hand at the airport. Does Qantas appreciate the risks to travellers?

With all due respect I do find this comment naive. Whilst it is documented about the "strict" local laws in the Middle East, it would be ignorant to argue that Singapore (considering we are talking about the intermediate point to Europe) do not have penalties that would be considered harsh by Australian standards.

IMHO the onus lies on the traveler to ensure that they are aware of the risks. It isn't as if you cannot find the information online in this day and age.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I think you will find there are many many countries that if you offend the wrong person, or group of people, it will be dealt with very harshly, it is certainly not innocuous anywhere else in the world.

Thailand is another example - cannot speak against the King in any way.

 

[mannej]

Thailand is another example - cannot speak against the King in any way.

The obvious example is Harry Nicolaides

http://m.smh.com.au/national/the-trouble-with-harry-20081121-6e4z.html

 

[RooFlyer]

With all due respect I do find this comment naive. Whilst it is documented about the "strict" local laws in the Middle East, it would be ignorant to argue that Singapore (considering we are talking about the intermediate point to Europe) do not have penalties that would be considered harsh by Australian standards.

IMHO the onus lies on the traveler to ensure that they are aware of the risks. It isn't as if you cannot find the information online in this day and age.

C'mon. I don't think one can compare the legal system in the UAE with Singapore in any sensible way, especially as it may pertain to visitors. Even if a foreigner may be arrested, consider what happens in the two jurisdictions after that - rule of law; access to lawyers; treatment whilst in custody etc etc. Chalk and cheese.

I agree that the onus is on the traveller to make themselves aware of the issues in travelling to or through different jurisdictions, but a transit through DXB carries hugely greater risk to the traveller to fall foul of local laws, compared to a transit through Singapore.

"The display of simple affection between (unmarried) couples. Compare and contrast the consequences in UAE and Singapore." If anyone thinks the answer to that is "Not much." then I've got a harbour bridge for sale..

 

[mannej]

C'mon. I don't think one can compare the legal system in the UAE with Singapore in any sensible way, especially as it may pertain to visitors. Even if a foreigner may be arrested, consider what happens in the two jurisdictions after that - rule of law; access to lawyers; treatment whilst in custody etc etc. Chalk and cheese.

I agree that the onus is on the traveller to make themselves aware of the issues in travelling to or through different jurisdictions, but a transit through DXB carries hugely greater risk to the traveller to fall foul of local laws, compared to a transit through Singapore.

"The display of simple affection between (unmarried) couples. Compare and contrast the consequences in UAE and Singapore." If anyone thinks the answer to that is "Not much." then I've got a harbour bridge for sale..

Roo Flyer, I think that you may need to read my response again.

All that I have stated is that Singapore, like the Middle East have penalties that may be considered harsh against Australian standards.
I have not made mention of the inner workings of each legal system.

Forgetting perception, are you able to quantify the difference in risk faced by a passenger transiting via SIN or via DXB?

 

[RooFlyer]

It's OK; I read your response and then made my own observations .

Can I quantify the risks? No, but then I can't 'quantify' the risk faced by a passenger transiting the USA or even Australia, for that matter.

Not many countries are nice places if you are a foreigner and get on the wrong side of local law. But some places are a hellava lot less nice than others. Saudi Arabia, UAE, Zimbabwe, Nigeria and Iran are amongst the places that I wouldn't like to be arrested in. I couldn't even contemplate putting Singapore amongst those countries.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Saudi Arabia, UAE, Zimbabwe, Nigeria and Iran are amongst the places that I wouldn't like to be arrested in.

I must say, I'd actually like not being arrested in any country....including Australia! I certainly don't determine travel by a list of countries I'd prefer to be arrested in, as opposed to those that I wouldn't! :shock:

 

[Bandicoot]

With all due respect I do find this comment naive. Whilst it is documented about the "strict" local laws in the Middle East, it would be ignorant to argue that Singapore (considering we are talking about the intermediate point to Europe) do not have penalties that would be considered harsh by Australian standards.

IMHO the onus lies on the traveler to ensure that they are aware of the risks. It isn't as if you cannot find the information online in this day and age.

With due respect you might your statement might be naive. Check out DFAT.

• We advise you to exercise normal safety precautions in the UAE. You should exercise common sense and look out for suspicious behaviour, as you would in Australia. Monitor the media and other sources for changes to local travelling conditions.
• There is a threat of terrorist attack in the UAE. Attacks could take place at locations frequented by Westerners. See Safety and security.
• The UAE is a Muslim country and local laws reflect the fact that Islamic practices and beliefs are closely applied. Laws may also vary between individual Emirates. You should familiarise yourself with local laws, and their impact on your personal circumstances, before you travel.
• Legal and administrative processes are significantly different from those in Australia. If you are arrested, you may face a significant period of detention before your case comes to trial. You could have your passport held by UAE authorities and be prevented from leaving the country. The resolution of even simple legal issues can be prolonged and complex.
• There are strict laws on personal conduct, particularly in regard to sex and personal relationships, as well as the consumption and possession of alcohol.
• Behaviour that would be considered offensive or anti-social, but not criminal, in Australia could be considered as a very serious matter by UAE authorities. Anyone violating UAE law, even unknowingly, may be subject to severe punishment.
• Sex outside of marriage is illegal in the UAE. It is possible that victims of sexual assault may face criminal prosecution rather than being considered the victim of a crime. There have been cases in the UAE where sexual assault victims have been imprisoned after reporting an incident to local police or upon seeking medical assistance.
• The UAE has a zero tolerance policy towards illegal drugs. Penalties can include a death sentence or life imprisonment. Some medications available over the counter or by prescription in Australia are illegal in the UAE.
• Having a cheque bounce, not paying a bill or fine or not repaying a loan are considered fraudulent acts and may result in imprisonment. If you become involved in commercial or civil litigation it is possible that you will be prevented from departing the UAE until the matter is resolved. See Laws.

Singapore

• We advise you to exercise normal safety precautions in Singapore. You should exercise common sense and look out for suspicious behaviour, as you would in Australia. Monitor the media and other sources for changes to local travelling conditions.
• Australians planning to visit or transit Singapore by air from Middle East Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus (MERS-COV) affected countries in the Middle East and South Korea should be aware that individuals who display symptoms of MERS-COV may be taken to hospital in Singapore for assessment. Those travellers suspected of being infected with MERS-CoV may be required to remain in hospital. See Health.
• Penalties for drug offences in Singapore are severe and include the death penalty.
• Singapore laws on “outrage of modesty” (such as men behaving inappropriately towards women, using inappropriate language and inappropriate touching) are strict. Penalties include imprisonment, fines, and/or corporal punishment (caning).
• Singapore authorities require all travellers (including those transiting Singapore) to have at least six months validity remaining on their passports.

 

[medhead]

Have you left off the death penalty warning for drugs in Singapore? (Barlow and Chambers for anyone trying to say Singapore doesn't have harsh laws)

In practical terms what is the difference between outrage of modesty laws and, strict laws on personal conduct? I'm also sure not paying a bill would be a serious offence in Singapore as well.

 

[DrA]

Anecdotal evidence: Dubai has been the only place I've been questioned by the police about my travel partner - my brother. We weren't even touching or showing other signs of PDA. There was a visit to the police station to verify our relationship (as we have different surnames). It was not a pleasant experience. I've also had a number of incidents being harassed while travelling in the ME on my own for work (not that this is unique to the ME by any means, but it does have rather different consequences than most other places).

Anecdotal evidence: My brother and his then girlfriend were making out in the middle of Singapore airport, and aside from a few "that's crass" comments from other travellers, nothing was ever said. Authorities couldn't care less.

Travelling in the Middle East makes me uncomfortable, I won't pretend otherwise. While I do try to avoid it, I accept that sometimes it's necessary.

 

[medhead]

Come on, get real. When does that ever happen in Australia?"

Suggest you google a small, insignificant 4 Corners show called "The Moonlight State."

 

[Bandicoot]

No I did not leave off the death penalty for drug offences. It is in there.
I'm not aware that any gays and lesbians have been arrested and imprisoned in Singapore on the basis of an intimate relationship. But they have been in the UAE. How many Australian business men have been caught in the net in the UAE?
Take your argument to DFAT. I didn't make up these warnings.
Sure you can get into trouble in any country - there are relative risks (and I don't chew gum so I'll be ok in Singapore). I am just not prepared to take the risk in UAE. So whilst I will happily transit through Dubai I won't be stopping over. No matter how wonderful the swimming pools appear to be.

 

[medhead]

No I did not leave off the death penalty for drug offences. It is in there.
I'm not aware that any gays and lesbians have been arrested and imprisoned in Singapore on the basis of an intimate relationship. But they have been in the UAE. How many Australian business men have been caught in the net in the UAE?
Take your argument to DFAT. I didn't make up these warnings.
Sure you can get into trouble in any country - there are relative risks (and I don't chew gum so I'll be ok in Singapore). I am just not prepared to take the risk in UAE. So whilst I will happily transit through Dubai I won't be stopping over. No matter how wonderful the swimming pools appear to be.

The point is that DFAT warnings are hardly definitive. I'm not sure how taking it up with DFAT will prevent people drawing the wrong conclusions from their warnings.

 

[Bandicoot]

Wow. How awful. And if you could not demonstrate that your brother was your brother ...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

• Sex outside of marriage is illegal in the UAE. It is possible that victims of sexual assault may face criminal prosecution rather than being considered the victim of a crime. There have been cases in the UAE where sexual assault victims have been imprisoned after reporting an incident to local police or upon seeking medical assistance.

This is the most horrifying part. And there are plenty of real life cases to back it up.

 

[Cossie]

Have you left off the death penalty warning for drugs in Singapore? (Barlow and Chambers for anyone trying to say Singapore doesn't have harsh laws)

In practical terms what is the difference between outrage of modesty laws and, strict laws on personal conduct? I'm also sure not paying a bill would be a serious offence in Singapore as well.

Sorry, Barlow and Chambers were executed in Malaysia. Van Tuong Nguyen was executed in Singapore. As an aside, Alan Shadrake who wrote "Once a Jolly Hangman" was imprisoned in Singapore for writing this book as it criticises Singapore's legal system and afaik, it is still banned in Singapore.

 

[DrA]

Wow. How awful. And if you could not demonstrate that your brother was your brother ...

The reality is, we both knew the rules about me travelling with an unrelated male in the UAE. It was a hassle to prove he was my brother, but we hadn't broken any rules, so neither of us were particularly worried. It was awkward and uncomfortable, and something we don't want to go through again, but we'd done nothing wrong.

It really comes back to researching the places you're visiting and making sure you understand the culture and the laws there. As much as I find some laws repugnant, I have to accept that if I want/need to travel there, then I need to obey those laws. Those of us who travel for business don't always have the luxury of choice. You either travel to [insert country with horrific laws] or you lose work. I wish I was in a position to be picky about what jobs I take, but like most people, I'm not.

 

[medhead]

Sorry, Barlow and Chambers were executed in Malaysia. Van Tuong Nguyen was executed in Singapore. As an aside, Alan Shadrake who wrote "Once a Jolly Hangman" was imprisoned in Singapore for writing this book as it criticises Singapore's legal system and afaik, it is still banned in Singapore.

So other countries have harsh laws, then?

 

[Bandicoot]

Wonder how many people realise this?