Article: Airlines Easily Filling Premium Cabins Without Business Travel

[AFF Editor]

Airlines Easily Filling Premium Cabins Without Business Travel is an article written by AFF editorial staff:

Airlines Easily Filling Premium Cabins Despite Slow Business Travel Rebound

Despite the slow rebound of business travel after COVID-19, airlines are easily filling their Business & First cabins on long-haul flights.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

You can leave a comment or discuss this topic below.

 

[OATEK]

Our two recent flights SYD-LHR-SYD were full in J (B789) and nearly in PE, and I'd estimate from my brief peak behind the curtain 80% in Y.

While there may be an element of social distancing at play, there was no real attempt from most J pax to keep their distance during the flight.

It seems to us that many are sufficiently cashed up after 2-2.5yrs without travel to be prepared to pay the premium, and keen to travel despite the residual risks around covid. Yes, this will eventually drop away, but I suspect could be a feature for another 12-18months. Our second trip to UK, with side-trip to BER, less than 4 mths after our recent return. Anecdotal evidence suggest we are not alone in playing catch-up!

 

[Pushka]

It is possiby a function of Qatar charging most for seat selection but on our Flights to UK, Business class is pretty much full, although F empty on the 380 and economy seems deserted according to expert flyer.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The real question though is how many of those seats are paid with cash vs other means such as miles?

Of course QF and other airlines make money from award tickets, but not at the same margins as paid tickets (unless they have moved to a dynamic pricing system).

Fares ex Asia and Europe - SQ’s recent sale of €2350 from Europe to Australia in business class - suggest cabins aren’t filling at the AUD8000+ levels they are being advertised for ex AU. Other major carriers are selling fares for €900 from Europe to Asia in business class (for example AY) and €1500 return on LH/LX.

 

[Pushka]

The real question though is how many of those seats are paid with cash vs other means such as miles?

Of course QF and other airlines make money from award tickets, but not at the same margins as paid tickets (unless they have moved to a dynamic pricing system).

Fares ex Asia and Europe - SQ’s recent sale of €2350 from Europe to Australia in business class - suggest cabins aren’t filling at the AUD8000+ levels they are being advertised for ex AU. Other major carriers are selling fares for €900 from Europe to Asia in business class (for example AY) and €1500 return on LH/LX.

Tried getting an award seat in the last few months that is reliably going to fly? We cancelled CX award for next month because there was no guarantee HK would be open or that CX would even fly out of Adelaide. Better to pay and and know it will happen.

 

[serfty]

The real question though is how many of those seats are paid with cash vs other means such as miles?

My experiences in late January and mid March with Qantas transpacific travel was the Business cabins had less than half the seating allocated up to about 2 weeks out with plenty if I class available if not U.

In the week prior the the flight seats would begin to be allocated - firstly about 7 days out maybe half a dozen seats would become allocated then about 3 days out many more. Over the day before flight the business cabin would gradually "fill" up. Presumably this was representative of Platinum One and Chairman's lounge member upgrades being granted at 7 days, Platinum at 3 days and the rest at 1 days.

I suspect back then and possibly still now, Qantas are viewing flying with an empty business seat as a significant lost opportunity to reduce lability (points) and were upgrading anyone and everyone they could. I have come across two separate reports of Bronze members being upgraded to business class on points from an economy award.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

My experiences in late January with Qantas transpacific travel was the Business cabins had less than half the seating allocated up to about 2 weeks out with plenty if I class available if not U.

In the week prior the the flight seats would begin to be allocated - firstly about 7 days out maybe half a dozen seats would become allocated then about 3 days out many more. Over the day before flight the business cabin would gradually "fill" up. Presumably this was representative of Platinum One and Chairman's lounge member upgrades being granted at 7 days, Platinum at 3 days and the rest at 1 days.

I suspect back then and possibly still now, Qantas are viewing flying with an empty business seat as a significant lost opportunity to reduce lability (points) and were upgrading anyone and everyone they could. I have come across two separate reports of Bronze members being upgraded to business class on points from an economy award.

And with QFFF being a separate business, QF operations makes $$ out of the awards or upgrades, for a seat that would otherwise be empty.

Current fares of $8000 plus to the USA or Europe on many carriers are simply ridiculous. I suspect they are selling very few of those. The rest of the cabin is awards. Or in the case of SQ and others, return travellers having purchased fares ex Eu for those specials at €2350.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Tried getting an award seat in the last few months that is reliably going to fly? We cancelled CX award for next month because there was no guarantee HK would be open or that CX would even fly out of Adelaide. Better to pay and and know it will happen.

True. There’s plenty of award availability out there, but not necessarily on the major alliances. Etihad for example is wide open to Australia and Europe.

If I had to pay I’d be taking VA to DPS and buying Turkish out of there to Europe for $2500. Not laying the $8000 carriers are wanting ex AU

 

[dajop]

The real question though is how many of those seats are paid with cash vs other means such as miles?

Of course QF and other airlines make money from award tickets, but not at the same margins as paid tickets (unless they have moved to a dynamic pricing system).

Fares ex Asia and Europe - SQ’s recent sale of €2350 from Europe to Australia in business class - suggest cabins aren’t filling at the AUD8000+ levels they are being advertised for ex AU. Other major carriers are selling fares for €900 from Europe to Asia in business class (for example AY) and €1500 return on LH/LX.

I think this is changing rapidly. Those ex-EU flights weren't all that easy to find, more likely to be midweek and certainly not from all destinations. At the Australian end, my partner has just booked his third J class trip from SIN to Australia for business related purposes for the year, travel mid May. It took some tweaking of flights and dates to find something on SQ <$7500 SGD return, and even then still came in at $6.5K (with 1:1 being good enough for the AUD:SGD exchange rate).

I also think the cheaper Asia/Europe fares are starting to dry up, and aren't necessarily a post pandemic feature. The pages of AFF and FT are littered with such fares, and I've taken advantage of them myself well before we'd heard of the phrase COVID-19.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I think this is changing rapidly. Those ex-EU flights weren't all that easy to find, more likely to be midweek and certainly not from all destinations. At the Australian end, my partner has just booked his third J class trip from SIN to Australia for business related purposes for the year, travel mid May. It took some tweaking of flights and dates to find something on SQ <$7500 SGD return, and even then still came in at $6.5K (with 1:1 being good enough for the AUD:SGD exchange rate).

I also think the cheaper Asia/Europe fares are starting to dry up, and aren't necessarily a post pandemic feature. The pages of AFF and FT are littered with such fares, and I've taken advantage of them myself well before we'd heard of the phrase COVID-19.

I agree they weren't all that easy to find - but my school teacher cousin, with zero flight knowledge, managed to get them! We also came a few days late to the party on AFF in terms of notification. Many seats had been snapped up by then... and of course the flights ex Europe also served all those wanting to go to Asia, where the fares were in the 1200-1500 Euro range.

it looks like TK has pulled out of DPS? Fares are now in the $3400 range on Oman. But ex MNL there's still quite a bit to Europe sub $3000 (aud)

 

[jase05]

I agree they weren't all that easy to find - but my school teacher cousin, with zero flight knowledge, managed to get them! We also came a few days late to the party on AFF in terms of notification. Many seats had been snapped up by then... and of course the flights ex Europe also served all those wanting to go to Asia, where the fares were in the 1200-1500 Euro range.

it looks like TK has pulled out of DPS? Fares are now in the $3400 range on Oman. But ex MNL there's still quite a bit to Europe sub $3000 (aud)

I was playing around last night for our October trip and saw some $900 return fares MNL-BKK-ADD-KWI/BEY on a mixture of TG/ET. I’m not sure ET are any good but piqued my interest just to try something different to the ME

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I was playing around last night for our October trip and saw some $900 return fares MNL-BKK-ADD-KWI/BEY on a mixture of TG/ET. I’m not sure ET are any good but piqued my interest just to try something different to the ME

ET's supposedly quite ok! It's not QR or SQ, but it does the job.

 

[jase05]

ET's supposedly quite ok! It's not QR or SQ, but it does the job.

I’m seriously interested in it. I have no status with *A so would have to investigate what fare bucket they are and which is the best program to credit them to but for $900 who cares right. Playing around with it their is also the option on the return leg to go KWI/BEY-ADD-ICN-MNL with the ICN-MNL leg on OZ

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I’m seriously interested in it. I have no status with *A so would have to investigate what fare bucket they are and which is the best program to credit them to but for $900 who cares right. Playing around with it their is also the option on the return leg to go KWI/BEY-ADD-ICN-MNL with the ICN-MNL leg on OZ

FT probably has a thread on it? They would prolly have the programs to credit to, and any pitfalls.

 

[Gunter]

I had booked Business class SYD to MUC return via Tokyo for June with ANA. When I tried to change the departure date there were no seats available ±5 days from the original date in J, all booked out, plenty seat available in Economy though. I had to get on the waiting list and finally got seats 3 days later.

 

[RooFlyer]

ET's supposedly quite ok! It's not QR or SQ, but it does the job.

I’m pretty sure @JohnM has flown them.

 

[Mzungu]

ET's supposedly quite ok! It's not QR or SQ, but it does the job.

I have flown ET a lot in the past. They are Africa's oldest and biggest airline and are really quite respectable. Yes, certainly not an SQ or EK, but a very good smaller AIRLINE.

Post automatically merged: Apr 25, 2022

ET's supposedly quite ok! It's not QR or SQ, but it does the job.

I have flown ET a lot in the past. They are Africa's oldest and biggest airline and are really quite respectable. Yes, certainly not an SQ or EK, but a very good smaller AIRLINE.

 

[Mzungu]

I’m seriously interested in it. I have no status with *A so would have to investigate what fare bucket they are and which is the best program to credit them to but for $900 who cares right. Playing around with it their is also the option on the return leg to go KWI/BEY-ADD-ICN-MNL with the ICN-MNL leg on OZ

 

[Mzungu]

I have flown ET a lot in the past. They are Africa's oldest and biggest airline. Yes, they are not an SQ or an EK, but they are a very good smaller airline. Well worth trying.

 

[JohnM]

I’m pretty sure @JohnM has flown them.

Only dom in Ethiopia in ATRs. Quite OK.