Article: Latest Changes May Not Fix Qantas’ Reward Availability Problem

[Mr H]

So Qantas thinks making award options available on other carriers is the solution? Wow wee! What parallel universe are they living in?

Qantas needs to trim the exec bonuses and have an honest relationship with its members - a guaranteed minimum of classic reward seats available in all classes on all flights would be a good start. It makes points collectable on flights, credit cards, etc. with the implied understanding that you can use these points for flights and at the pointy end as well. The reality is that you can't. The ACCC should investigate the QFF program.

Please be careful what you wish for. The current program has sweet spots. Those who invest enough time and effort can get very good returns from it. If the ACCC got involved then they would dumb the scheme down so that Ma and Pa Kettle can get the same benefits as the more savvy members - which would probably be reducing the program to a money off benefit that looks like Classic Plus all round - or Points Plus Pay if we are really going to create a level playing field.

 

[Willie]

QF's lack of capacity on every international route they fly must be a factor with the lack of award availability.

Ooh roo

Willie

 

[Gold Member]

Please be careful what you wish for. The current program has sweet spots.

It’s called Chairman’s Lounge Membership. It includes complimentary Platinum status among other benefits. But most of us on here will never be invited.

The real sweet spots in QFF are so few and far between compared to other programs. There are articles written in plain English to dumb it down to “Ma and Pa Kettle” level here on AFF, elsewhere on Pointhacks, ET etc. You don’t need to be all that savvy to exploit these sweet spots with such helpful resources.

Plus, I’m certain QFF know about our “sweet spots”. If they didn’t want them to exist, they would have been enhanced long ago.

 

[Mr H]

It’s called Chairman’s Lounge Membership. It includes complimentary Platinum status among other benefits. But most of us on here will never be invited.

The real sweet spots in QFF are so few and far between compared to other programs. There are articles written in plain English to dumb it down to “Ma and Pa Kettle” level here on AFF, elsewhere on Pointhacks, ET etc. You don’t need to be all that savvy to exploit these sweet spots with such helpful resources.

Plus, I’m certain QFF know about our “sweet spots”. If they didn’t want them to exist, they would have been enhanced long ago.

I do OK from the program and I don't have status.

My point is that those who complain that the advertised benefits are not reasonably available to all members and demand ACCC action will discover that ACCC action would result in everyone being levelled down, not up.

 

[Gold Member]

I do OK from the program and I don't have status.

My point is that those who complain that the advertised benefits are not reasonably available to all members and demand ACCC action will discover that ACCC action would result in everyone being levelled down, not up.

Me too, to my own way of thinking.

Complaining about not receiving advertised benefits is all the rage here on AFF, haven’t you heard? We voluntarily agree to the terms of the FFP which don’t guarantee availability 24/7/365 in all premium cabins. We choose to play THEIR game. But I think the point being made is the inference to award availability and how the program is unreasonably marketed to make us believe we can redeem points for regular Classic Reward pricing in long-haul premium cabins.

 

[siri]

In this opinion piece, I explain why I think Qantas has a Classic Reward availability problem, and why the latest changes - while they may have a positive effect overall on availability - probably won't be enough to fix it in the longer term.

Opinion: Latest Changes May Not Fix Qantas' Reward Availability Problem

Qantas Frequent Flyer has an availability problem. The recent program changes including Classic Reward price hikes, the introduction of Classic Plus and expanded partner airline rewards try to fix this. But they might not be enough.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

You can leave a comment or discuss this topic below.

It's a kind of rip off as it is... govt. should look deeper into this ff program vs availability of seats.. Of course present and past govt. are inept and corrupt as long as chairman lounge exist.

 

[mt4789]

Me too, to my own way of thinking.

Complaining about not receiving advertised benefits is all the rage here on AFF, haven’t you heard? We voluntarily agree to the terms of the FFP which don’t guarantee availability 24/7/365 in all premium cabins. We choose to play THEIR game. But I think the point being made is the inference to award availability and how the program is unreasonably marketed to make us believe we can redeem points for regular Classic Reward pricing in long-haul premium cabins.

Hit the nail on the head for me here, it's the inference through the advertising.

It's why I think guaranteed seats makes sense to Qantas too, it gets them out of a legal quandary. They can then say subject to availability (fair), rather than "whenever we feel like it".

 

[ian_baker58]

As a LTG now (fell off the Platinum perch when I retired) and 1M QF points + 1M Amex points, I find I cannot use the QF points on any long haul J/P - just impossible…
About to kill the QF point accumulation other than to keep the account live, and spend those points on some local redemption in J. The Amex points will probably go to SQ or QR where there is a likelihood of some redemption on long haul.
Sadly the flying kangaroo is a hollow shell of its former self and rewards its senior executives - not its log-time loyal customers…

 

[Tim K]

QANTAS is doing even further damage to the brand chasing higher profits at the expense of loyal passengers whose expectations they created they are not fulfilling. It’s a very dangerous game and people are not fools. As LTG and close to the mythical LTP I will not fly them internationally and locally only when I have to. Despite the empty apologies in almost every respect since 2019 they have treated their customers, other than those in the Chairman’s Lounge appallingly.

 

[Tim K]

As a LTG now (fell off the Platinum perch when I retired) and 1M QF points + 1M Amex points, I find I cannot use the QF points on any long haul J/P - just impossible…
About to kill the QF point accumulation other than to keep the account live, and spend those points on some local redemption in J. The Amex points will probably go to SQ or QR where there is a likelihood of some redemption on long haul.
Sadly the flying kangaroo is a hollow shell of its former self and rewards its senior executives - not its log-time loyal customers…

Absolutely agree.

 

[DDirkin]

Qantas already has a solution to the problem, but it is not one that you'll like, as the article notes.

As my quick calculations demonstrated in the other thread, Qantas has reduced the value of a point when redeemed for classic rewards, significantly closing the gap between classic rewards and classic plus. In the most typical of flight booking scenarios (SYD-LHR, SYD-MEL), it is now only a slight up-charge to book classic plus in economy (1 vs ~1.1c/pt) and the up-charge for business class has significantly decreased (1.5 v ~2.1c/pt).

That up-charge will reduce even further during sale periods where the classic plus price falls. As a result, there will now be substantial parts of the year where it will be cheaper to book classic plus than it will be to book classic rewards.

And there's ample classic plus availability.

So I expect Qantas will release fewer classic reward seats, not more, because they have solved the problem: book classic plus.

If I'm correct, the big question, as the articles notes, is: should you still collect Qantas points?

Here's my broad answer:
- If you're Platinum or higher: yes, because you can still attain classic rewards via release.

- If you can attain your points for under 0.5c/pt (through non-surcharged card spend, credit card sign-up bonuses, manufactured spend, etc): yes, because you're still getting a good return on spend — purchase $1000 worth of points & get $2000+ worth of flights.

- If you're paying 1c/pt or more for points through Woolworths conversions, paying a 1% credit card surcharge & only earning 1 point per dollar: no, because you're converting liquid cash to an illiquid point for no uplift.

One last thought. The elephant in the room is the looming ban on debit card surcharges. If debit card surcharges are banned & credit card surcharges are not, credit card usage in Australia is going to take a big hit. Why pay 1-2% in credit card surcharges only to get 1-1.5c in points when one can pay 0% with a debit card and keep the cash?

As a LTG now (fell off the Platinum perch when I retired) and 1M QF points + 1M Amex points, I find I cannot use the QF points on any long haul J/P - just impossible…
About to kill the QF point accumulation other than to keep the account live, and spend those points on some local redemption in J. The Amex points will probably go to SQ or QR where there is a likelihood of some redemption on long haul.
Sadly the flying kangaroo is a hollow shell of its former self and rewards its senior executives - not its log-time loyal customers…

Have the same experience, things have changed, big time, just recently for the worse. I’m platinum and have much difficulty requesting extra seats.

 

[DDirkin]

I’ve been platinum now for the last 5 years and am now lifetime gold. During that period we have taken a family vacation for the 4 of us business class to Europe and/or the US every year and use platinum status to request classic reward seats well in advance and sometimes build a round the world ticket. Additionally my wife and I usually redeem some extra points for 2 business class classic reward return tickets to somewhere in Asia for a week getaway. Have had no issues doing this until the last few months…THINGS HAVE CHANGED…it is now almost impossible to book qantas business class classic rewards…have spent numerous hours on the phone with the various call centres including Hobart, trying to request routes in all sorts of weird and wonderful ways just to get out of Australia…have had no success. If this is the way qantas is planning to treat its gold, let alone platinum customers into the future then I value proposition of redeeming points for classic rewards business class is problematic.

Curious to hear other experiences.

My thinking at the moment is to run down my qantas points balance (through some partner airline classic reward business class bookings), and in the mean time take a status challenge on a different airline and try to maintain a platinum equivalency there…question is which airline to choose? I typically fly to the US once a year for business, India 2 or 3 times and Singapore once or twice, all business class. Logical choice perhaps Singapore, any other suggestions.

 

[OATEK]

I, like many others, have given up on CRs in premium cabins to EU/UK, as just so hard to snag. So I have been using points for PE to/from SIN, and then flying with an ME carrier in J for a decent price. But now, snagging Z seats (PE CR) has become very difficult, but not so if I can cope with X (Y) on the to/from SIN legs. Now I might just come at it for a day flight, of which there are several to SIN. But from SIN, they are all night flights (QF2/292/82). So even though there are X seats on my next SIN-SYD date (06/25), I have gone with paid Y on SQ where the seat reports argue they are a good bit better than QF, and its a day flight. So QF can argue that X9 5 months out is pretty good for AFFers, many of us likely won't take the bait.

 

[big_RED]

I've posted in a few other threads, but this change to push CR+ and reduce CR has really hit me. Me and the wife typically fly once or twice to the US each year. We have ALWAYS been able to get Business with CR. And once even got First class to Dallas which was a great.

Looking at the whole of November and December for 2025 I cannot see 1 CR Business ticket available. Only double the points and 50% more the $$$ taxes with their CR+ fares which do show up.

My loyalty has been unwavering for Qantas for the last 15 yrs. Quite literally. But now, similar to others above I am thinking of only using Qantas for domestic J, and finding another program/credit card opportunity to align to another carrier/strategy outside of Qantas.

I realise I've been entitled for many years being able to redeem these J CR flights. But this change seems far too stretched for no benefit to the customer.

 

[ian_baker58]

I’ve been platinum now for the last 5 years and am now lifetime gold. During that period we have taken a family vacation for the 4 of us business class to Europe and/or the US every year and use platinum status to request classic reward seats well in advance and sometimes build a round the world ticket. Additionally my wife and I usually redeem some extra points for 2 business class classic reward return tickets to somewhere in Asia for a week getaway. Have had no issues doing this until the last few months…THINGS HAVE CHANGED…it is now almost impossible to book qantas business class classic rewards…have spent numerous hours on the phone with the various call centres including Hobart, trying to request routes in all sorts of weird and wonderful ways just to get out of Australia…have had no success. If this is the way qantas is planning to treat its gold, let alone platinum customers into the future then I value proposition of redeeming points for classic rewards business class is problematic.

Curious to hear other experiences.

My thinking at the moment is to run down my qantas points balance (through some partner airline classic reward business class bookings), and in the mean time take a status challenge on a different airline and try to maintain a platinum equivalency there…question is which airline to choose? I typically fly to the US once a year for business, India 2 or 3 times and Singapore once or twice, all business class. Logical choice perhaps Singapore, any other suggestions.

I agree with you…(as per my post here). Looking at SQ or QR at this stage to move my AX point to. The other option is MH as we do go to coughet every year.

 

[Laptop Jockey]

The Qantas 2024 review thread gives an interesting data points.
To be in the top 30% point earner in 2024, one would need to earn at least 22k/23k.
Really, that means that 70% of those 16 millions QFF members do not engage enough to chase those aspirational long haul J/F.
The bar to be in the top 5% earner is not as clear, 150k points is enough, but the bar could be much lower. Anyway, at 150k a year, that s a round trip to LHR in J every second year, or a yearly round trip to south east asia.
It feels like safe to guesstimate that no more than 10% of QFF members are serious enough to be in a position to look for those J long haul every year. 1.6 millions members.

According to the QFF wrapped-style email, my wife earned 136k points last year's and was in the top 10% of points earners which really blew my mind.
So even the Points Club basic tier is less than 10%.
I'm assuming the terms "points earners" and "members" aren't being used interchangeably too, so it is well under a million earning ~100k points per year.

 

[dgoody2]

Of the 5m Classic reward seats Qantas release, the latest press statement when the changes were announced, said that it included 130,000 international seats in premium cabins (Business / First). This is where the issue is really showing itself. Many (most?) frequent flyers want to use their points for a long haul international flight in a premium cabin. If we assume that the vast majority of flights are return, then 130,000 seats only equates to 65,000 journeys.Many people travel as a couple or family, so its not unreasonable to say that the average booking is for 2 people (some single travellers may offset families of 3,4,5 travellers). So there are only 32,500 available journeys. In reality this will be even less, as a flight SYD->JFK return has minimum 4 sectors and Qantas use married segment logic, such that there needs to be reward availability on each of those sectors. A trip from Sydney, Brisbane or Melbourne to London, Paris, Rome would similarly require more than 1 sector. So the available "journeys" is les than 32,500, but the permutations make it too hard to figure that out. Lets be conservative and say there are only 30,000 journeys for the average booker.

Now if we also say that some of those seats will be snapped up by reward bookers of partner airlines (Any Oneworld alliance member, Emirates Skywards, KLM, Air France, China Eastern, China Airlines etc), and even accounting for the fact that tiered Qantas members MAY get access earlier at 353 days, vs 330 or 300 for some of the partners, the reality is some of those seats are not going to be available for Qantas fliers. Once again, hard to say how few, but American Airlines and British Airways schemes have many more members alone than Qantas....for the sake of discussion, let's say that we now only have 25,000 "journey" that a Qantas frequent flyer could book for 2....and these will disproportionality go to Gold and above, due to the fact that they MAY access earlier inventory.

25,000 for perhaps 8m ACTIVE frequent flyer members (I'm halving to account for deceased and not closed accounts, those with minimal balances, inactive travellers etc), still means a 0.3% change of getting the seat you want. Putting it differently there are actually 320 people competing for every one of these "journeys"

Qantas needs to make more seats available!

 

[MichaelD]

Spent many years at Platinum One. Now avoid Qantas like the plague. Learnt a while ago that the chase for international reward seats in premium cabins with Qantas was a waste of my time and just pay for non-Qantas fares these days.

Gradually burned my points down from 1,000,000+ to around 50,000 with domestic J flights. Even those are getting harder to find and the service on offer is getting more and more miserable.

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

My decreased engagement with QFF comes from Qantas' own financial statements which explain to me why rewards seats are becoming increasingly scarce:

• At 30 June 2024, the "Unredeemed Frequent Flyer Revenue" in Qantas' accounts was $3.328 billion (up from $2.420 billion 5 years ago)
• Conservatively assuming Qantas values each FF point at 0.5 cents, there would be at least 665 billion QFF points out there
• If every First Class seat on SYD-LHR from today was available as a CR (daily flights with 14 F seats at 433,800 FF points each), it would be early December before they could make any cash sales.

It's an edge case example because of how few seats are actually available as CR vs paid fares, upgrades from J fares, Any Seat Rewards, partner awards, Chairman's Lounge comps and staff travel. But with the increased printing of non-flying points, limited QF capacity growth and paid demand at the pointy end, I can't see redemption availability increasing or points value staying the same.

 

[Dvg]

Just guessing but I think the aim is to eventually be rid of classic rewards and the only option a slightly more enhanced classic plus.