Article: Long-Haul Economy Class - A Valuable Reality Check

[dajop]

On the subject of trains, and apologise for getting all a bit "lux-ury, when I was lad"-ish, but I always remember an overnight train journey I did in 1989 from Sydney to Melbourne, in a fully booked train, I think about 13 hours, sitting in one of those "dog box" carriages which are very upright and have no recline, and no legroom as you are facing the person opposite you. When I have an uncomfortable time in long haul Y ... I remember that journey, in fact set the scene for me thinking economy is not that bad, even though it was >30 years ago.

 

[Port Power]

In June I am flying EK from Perth in Y and I am really not looking forward to that first 11 hour flight in economy. I know I used to do it four years ago, but I didn’t like it then, either! I cannot sleep on aeroplane, but at least in J I can lie down and relax. However, the price on J was ludicrous. At least will have priority boarding as well as access to the Emirates lounge during transit to compensate. So bad that we cannot use QF points to upgrade. As many have stated throughout this thread, I just have to suck it up and get through the flight. With luck I might have a ghost seat; unimaginable to have a free row to myself.

 

[justinbrett]

IMO the number of points required for J seats now internationally on Qantas is about 4 times what they were pre-pandemic it's outrageous and something should be done about it.

Just blatantly not true. The QF redemption tables have not changed at all since pre-covid.

On the contrary, points have never been more valuable, considering the current cash fares.

 

[John in Melbourne]

Since the start of the 90s, I've flown MEL to LHR almost every year, mostly QF. And always Y and mostly sleepless. Until PE appeared. Oh, the luxury and getting a few hours sleep! But then, while in Y, I had a bad migraine. The Qantas crew, an Irish nurse and prescription medication from somewhere onboard were fantastic. They even put me in J, in a bed already made up. Bliss, because if I can lie flat, I'm less likely to vomit. Anyway, I was hooked. Ever since, I've had the attitude that if it's not J (or an upgrade to F) I'm not going.

 

[Bjet]

I have had some of the worst sleep on the XPT sleeper from Melbourne to Sydney and this was when I had a compartment to myself. I invariably woke up at every station. I'd rather fly in Y

Yeah... that's true. I watched a vlogger (from youtube) about travelling on a train from Sydney to Melbourne. He also mentioned that he could not sleep on train either at night!

 

[kookaburra75]

On the subject of trains, and apologise for getting all a bit "lux-ury, when I was lad"-ish, but I always remember an overnight train journey I did in 1989 from Sydney to Melbourne, in a fully booked train, I think about 13 hours, sitting in one of those "dog box" carriages which are very upright and have no recline, and no legroom as you are facing the person opposite you. When I have an uncomfortable time in long haul Y ... I remember that journey, in fact set the scene for me thinking economy is not that bad, even though it was >30 years ago.

Same here. I grew up in country Victoria, so the red rattlers were the only way to get around, and more than a few trips on the old rail motors. Economy in any airline is light years ahead of that.

 

[Forg]

Same here. I grew up in country Victoria, so the red rattlers were the only way to get around, and more than a few trips on the old rail motors. Economy in any airline is light years ahead of that.

That’s interesting … the inter-urban double-deck electric trains from Sydney heading south, north or west are considerably more comfortable & roomy than international Y!

 

[AFF Editor]

This article and its comments are all very interesting and potentially very helpful. But as a relatively new member to this forum I can barely understand most of the comments as they are full of acronymns and abbreviations. I've guessed what 'J' , 'PE' and 'Y' mean, but there are dozens of others glibly rattled off that I don't know the meaning of. Is there a glossary somewhere of all these terms?

Thanks for a good suggestion for another article - hope this helps

Common Acronyms Used on the AFF Forum

This glossary explains some of the most commonly-used abbreviations and acronyms on the Australian Frequent Flyer forum.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[flyingfan]

I like flying so much I'd probably rather sit locked up in the Y toilet longhaul if the alternative was not flying at all.
But once you've sampled premium classes, they provide the incentive to do all you can to secure tickets as close to the front as possible.

 

[Buzzard]

I have been fortunate enough to fly J (mostly on points, sometimes on cash) the last few years. Recently, in December, we went on a holiday overseas - MEL - KUL - BKK. It was a late decision, so flights were full (we anticipated that flights will be full given first fully open school holiday season). It was busy everywhere - airports, check in, customs, passport et cetera. We only managed to get Y tickets (family of 3). I have to say that it was not bad as likely although J was an 'alternate reality' for us, somehow haven't completely gotten used to it! We all slept solidly both ways. Y is nothing like J; any day I would prefer J, but unlike some here, I wouldn't say it triggered anxiety or PTSD and such like and am still alive!

Maybe we should call it PTFD, Post Traumatic Flight Syndrome

 

[Port Power]

Maybe we should call it PTFD, Post Traumatic Flight Syndrome

PTYD

 

[lepetitprince]

I have had some of the worst sleep on the XPT sleeper from Melbourne to Sydney and this was when I had a compartment to myself. I invariably woke up at every station. I'd rather fly in Y

You can add the seats in the Spirit of Tasmania to this category!

 

[levelnine]

I did my share of J travel in the "golden years" between 2011-2018 because I was churning US credit cards and doing some very lucrative promos. Also it used to be easier to find J awards. Post pandemic pretty much everything is Y now and even then I have to be very flexible to find availability. I got back into the US credit card game after finding a friend who would let me use his address but minimum spends equate to around $6000 AUD in 3 months and I just can't do that unless I have a few trips to pay for. My normal expenses aren't even close to that. So I have changed my game to try to do international travel for less than an equivalent domestic trip. If the airfare is taken out of the equation, I am getting free points from Coles and Woolies and the US cards it's not that difficult to do a couple trips a year. My HH Surpass csard gets 10 Priority Pass lounges a year so that makes up for the transit experience.

Comments like this are fascinating to me because I've recently had the exact opposite experience.

Since getting into the US credit card churning game during the pandemic, a whole new world has opened to me. I've been able to diversify away from QF, which means award availability has never been better as I can now fly EY, SQ, EK, etc for rock bottom prices through transfer partners like Aeroplan and Avios. And I've been able to access masses of hotel points, which was previously never possible.

I'm currently in the Maldives at a 5 star resort with QSuite both ways. Cash outlay was about $4000 for two people. The other couple on the boat transfer to the resort with us? After they dropped a few personal details and a bit of Googling, we find out they're billionaires lol. No wonder this resort can get away with charging $AUD85 for a simple pizza!

 

[The black sheep]

Boo Hoo, all you J (or F) flyers who can't contemplate traveling long haul Y! Think of all those, including myself, where Y is the ONLY option, unless I want to re-mortgage the house, or don't plan on flying long haul again for the next 10 years. Definitely a First World Problem!

Hey there Beano,
I really get your angle. For the vast majority of travellers, Y is the only sane option. The cost difference is outrageous, where for a short family holiday the cost of upgrading to business is perhaps worth the entire hotel booking at your destination. But I think that debating the airline travel thing has to be split between holiday makers, who travel for such, and people who have to travel weekly/monthly, for work. When you travel frequently for work, you do not enjoy travel. You hate it. All the things that are so great to a holiday passenger are not the same. Lounge access is not fun, it just makes travel less horrid. A Business seat is ok, but still far worse than sleeping in your own home. So really, not a "First World Problem", but rather a work verses recreational problem.

 

[1022]

I had to make sudden changes to travel plans a few months ago which meant letting go of a J classic award and paying (quite a lot of) cash for Y overnight MNL-SYD. Travelling with +1 on an A330 in a window/aisle pair, plus the perks of status on the ground, plus a not totally full flight, plus personable crew, plus ok catering meant that it was about as good as overnight Y could be. Even so my +1 jokes all the time that I looked really uncomfortable throughout the flight and as though I was trying to recreate the J experience back in row 28 when searching for a comfortable position to sit and doze.

I think the killer for me when I travel Y is knowing exactly what lies beyond that curtain at every stage of the flight. Getting glimpses of that or hearing the tinkling of real cutlery on china is a stab to the heart. Also painful are the (often involuntary) smug looks on the faces of premium cabin pax when they peer back upon the carnage of the economy cabin…It’s like I want to meet their eye with a pleading gaze “I usually sit up there you know!!!”

 

[dajop]

Ignoring the fact that a big proportion of AFF'ers are retired (or it seems that way), here's an economy vs business test:

You need to travel for work to LAX in a weeks time, from SYD. Your employer won't pay $19,000 for you to fly QF in business, but they will pay $13,500 for you to fly on UA in business. They will also pay you 2/3 of the fare difference between economy and business and allow you two extra night's accommodation and an extra day to recover on return if you fly economy. Economy fares on UA are $1700 or $2300 on QF. No upgrades are available on either carrier, and not likely to occur as cabins are close to full.

Do you
a) Fly business, as you are entitled to it
b) pocket $7900 and fly UA economy
c) pocket $7500 and fly QF economy

 

[jase05]

Ignoring the fact that a big proportion of AFF'ers are retired (or it seems that way), here's an economy vs business test:

You need to travel for work to LAX in a weeks time, from SYD. Your employer won't pay $19,000 for you to fly QF in business, but they will pay $13,500 for you to fly on UA in business. They will also pay you 2/3 of the fare difference between economy and business and allow you two extra night's accommodation and an extra day to recover on return if you fly economy. Economy fares on UA are $1700 or $2300 on QF. No upgrades are available on either carrier, and not likely to occur as cabins are close to full.

Do you
a) Fly business, as you are entitled to it
b) pocket $7900 and fly UA economy
c) pocket $7500 and fly QF economy

I would take A thank you.
No way on Earth am I flying Y for that distance

 

[Forg]

Am I allowed to use some of the money I pocket from not flying J to upgrade my ticket to Premium Economy, so I’m not 13-ish hours in the air with my knees wedged into the seat in front & so I’m able to read or watch the IFE while I’m not sleeping?

The J option runs up a wee red flag if I’m honest, as sleep won’t happen so I’d be feeling pretty awful upon arrival & unlikely to be able to function properly.

 

[dajop]

Am I allowed to use some of the money I pocket from not flying J to upgrade my ticket to Premium Economy, so I’m not 13-ish hours in the air with my knees wedged into the seat in front & so I’m able to read or watch the IFE while I’m not sleeping?

Yes, you can do what you want with the money.

 

[Forg]

Yes, you can do what you want with the money.

Take the cash & pay some extra for premium economy then, it’s only half-a-flight compared to going to Europe!