Article: Qantas’ Mysterious Downgrade Compensation Policy

[The Flying Brick]

Qantas’ Contract of Carriage, 10.3, states ‘Our denied boarding compensation policy is available on request’.

It should form part of the contract? Unfortunately if it’s not available it makes it very difficult for consumers to make informed choices at the airport, given the little time available.

So that would be a definite breach of Contract which the ACCC must investigate and enforce yet more penalties on this poor excuse for an Airline known as Qantas.

 

[Kitkathai]

Qantas’ Mysterious Downgrade Compensation Policy is an article written by the AFF editorial team:

Qantas' Mysterious Downgrade Compensation Policy

When Qantas moves a passenger from Business to Economy, they are entitled to compensation for the involuntary downgrade. But Qantas won't reveal how it calculates the refund amount.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

You can leave a comment or discuss this topic below.

So how do we start the process to get the government to

Qantas’ Mysterious Downgrade Compensation Policy is an article written by the AFF editorial team:

Qantas' Mysterious Downgrade Compensation Policy

When Qantas moves a passenger from Business to Economy, they are entitled to compensation for the involuntary downgrade. But Qantas won't reveal how it calculates the refund amount.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

You can leave a comment or discuss this topic below.

so how do we start process of getting the government to establish a EU style compensation system.

 

[Freq Flier 2013]

Fully agree that AFF should get involved and lobby the government

 

[AFF Editor]

Perhaps Qantas's compensation policy should be referred to the ACCC?

Perhaps it's timely for Australian Frequent Flyer, on behalf if it's membership, to prepare a submission to the Parliamentary Aviation Green Paper released on 7 Sep. Feedback being sought includes ; airlines, airports and passengers : competition, consumer protections and disability access settings.

Yes, we are planning to get in touch with the ACCC regarding its current investigation and make a submission on the Aviation Green Paper.

 

[TheInsider]

Surely the QF downgrade policy isn't "mysterious". They sit down and work out the reason they will give for the least amount of compensation to be offered.
But your conclusion is the only way i think their policy will change. There should be mandatory compensation levels.

There is for International. Domestic, absolutely nothing published, nor any policy.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Good luck actually getting a copy of this... no one at customer care or the call centre will have the foggiest on how what to do if you requested it.

I reckon an email or registered letter sent to the legal department would let you get a copy of this.

 

[yaziyo]

For those playing along at home, this is the EU downgrade law:

30%, if the distance of your flight is up to 1500 kilometres

50%, if the distance of your flight is between 1500 - 3500 kilometres

75%, if the distance of your flight is more than 3500 kilometres

Translating the distances to Australian flights, an inter-east-coast flight would be in the 30% band, an east-coast to Perth or NZ would be in the 50% band and basically anything international would be in the 70% band.

The more stories I read, the more I believe Australia needs it's own EU261. Australia has strong consumer protection laws, except where it comes to airlines.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Qantas’ Contract of Carriage, 10.3, states ‘Our denied boarding compensation policy is available on request’.

For giggles I thought I'd take a look at subsection and boy is it a juicy one (emphasis added):

Airline flights may be overbooked. This means there is a slight chance that there may be more reservations than available seats on your flight. In these circumstances, where practicable, we will offer an incentive for volunteers not to travel on their booked flight. Volunteers will not be entitled to any further payment, refund or compensation. If there are not enough volunteers, we may need to deny boarding to one or more Passengers involuntarily.

What are those incentives? 5,000 bonus points? I would be curious if anyone has been on a QF flight where voluntary denied boarding has occurred. The way the phrase it is will instead of may implying that they will provide some sort of olive branch before reaching for the stick...

If you are denied boarding due to an overbooking of our flight for which you have a valid Ticket and a confirmed reservation, and you have met our Check-In Deadline and complied with all applicable requirements for travel as set out in these Conditions of Carriage, we will offer you a seat on the next available flight on our services.

So basically if you jumped through all these hoops we will ensure that you are put on the next available flight in the event of involuntary denied boarding. And one has to wonder what those hoops are. For instance, if you posses a valid ticket, checked in for your flight and are in the departures hall and they make an announcement for you to come to the gate but you didn't hear it, does that mean you don't qualify for rebooking assistance in the event of denied boarding?

If this is not acceptable to you, we will provide compensation and any care required by any law which may apply, such as the Australian Consumer Law (under which you may have rights to remedies), or in accordance with our policy if there is no applicable law. This will depend on the jurisdiction in which the denied boarding occurs.

What compensation is being provided? The way it is worded they are basically saying we will help you out if the law compels us to do so. Otherwise you are on your own if you don't accept our take it or leave it attitude to rebooking your flight.

As others have pointed out, this is yet another example of why we need to have clear consumer guarantees when we have a flight with Qantas, Qatar or any other airline operating out of Australia, just as our mates in Europe and Canada have. Indeed, if you want to see the sorry state of Australian consumer law when it comes to flights, have a look at this Qantas website which highlights those guarantees. Contrast that with the document Qantas is legally obligated to provide customers departing the Europe when they drop the ball. Literally in one page they were able to spell out your rights under the law and they are significant in the case of EU including things like meals and accommodations, rebooking on the next available flight irrespective of airline (even if that flight isn't operated by Qantas or a partner), and cash compensation of up to 600 Euros.

Some people will mention that this will only lead to higher airfares. Well take a look at Europe. Are they seeing a surge in flight prices? Quite the opposite, ticket prices have been dropping for decades now and the marketplace is more competitive for it. By forcing airlines to pay out customers when their operations suck, guess what? They run better operations rather than playing things by ear. RyanAir and EasyJet are so successful because they can get planes turned around super quickly so their planes are in the air all the time carrying fare paying passengers.

-RooFlyer88

 

[GlennT]

I don't claim to have all the answers to this vexxed topic, but one handy hint when requesting a refund of any sort with Qantas is to clearly tell them what precise compensation you require to make it good.

Do a bit of research to back up your claim to present to them, and you will probably get what you want. I did this for a points F award SYD-DXB-LIS on Emirates where their was a partial downgrade.
Stunningly, no compensation was proactively offered! I set out my case with the level of compensation required, and had it agreed in less than 48hrs.

The key is to not let them and you flounder around in the dark with no precise goal in mind.

 

[LondonAussie]

The more stories I read, the more I believe Australia needs it's own EU261. Australia has strong consumer protection laws, except where it comes to airlines.

If only the politicians running this Aviation Senate Inquiry could step back and look at the bigger picture and consider something like this. Canada and the US have similar laws too.

 

[circusaerialiste]

Qantas’ Mysterious Downgrade Compensation Policy is an article written by the AFF editorial team:

Qantas' Mysterious Downgrade Compensation Policy

When Qantas moves a passenger from Business to Economy, they are entitled to compensation for the involuntary downgrade. But Qantas won't reveal how it calculates the refund amount.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

You can leave a comment or discuss this topic below.

My partner was recently downgraded on a Qantas flight from Singapore to Sydney, and because we are European citizens and my partner departed on the flight from Munich (with the downgrade only on one sector of that flight), he is entitled under EU law to a 75% refund of that portion of his ticket, which we estimate to be around AUD$800. Strangely, even though he lives in Munich, Qantas sent him a flight voucher for AUD$250, which is clearly inadequate, but worse, the voucher can only be used on a flight departing from an Australian airport (clearly useless for someone who does not live in Australia). Now we are encountering a wall of silence to every request for proper compensation and will be instituting legal action if we do not hear back from them. Under European law, this is tightly regulated, but Qantas seem to be operating as if the law does not apply to them. I believe (from the advice of my corporate lawyer partner) that this matter could also be litigated as unfair competition because Qantas advertised and sold a ticket (as premium economy) which was actually an economy class ticket. The same applies to services they advertise (ie., in-flight entertainment) which they don't provide (ie., on our return flight the entertainment system was not functioning due to 'technical problems'). Given the number of people having these problems with Qantas, a class action would certainly be an option . . .

 

[kangarooflyer88]

My partner was recently downgraded on a Qantas flight from Singapore to Sydney, and because we are European citizens and my partner departed on the flight from Munich (with the downgrade only on one sector of that flight), he is entitled under EU law to a 75% refund of that portion of his ticket, which we estimate to be around AUD$800. Strangely, even though he lives in Munich, Qantas sent him a flight voucher for AUD$250, which is clearly inadequate, but worse, the voucher can only be used on a flight departing from an Australian airport (clearly useless for someone who does not live in Australia). Now we are encountering a wall of silence to every request for proper compensation and will be instituting legal action if we do not hear back from them. Under European law, this is tightly regulated, but Qantas seem to be operating as if the law does not apply to them. I believe (from the advice of my corporate lawyer partner) that this matter could also be litigated as unfair competition because Qantas advertised and sold a ticket (as premium economy) which was actually an economy class ticket. The same applies to services they advertise (ie., in-flight entertainment) which they don't provide (ie., on our return flight the entertainment system was not functioning due to 'technical problems'). Given the number of people having these problems with Qantas, a class action would certainly be an option . . .

May I ask how you reached out to Qantas? In my case I was on the exact same Qantas flight: Singapore to Sydney which encountered a 14 hour delay. Since the trip originated in Frankfurt (i.e. EU), EU261 applies for the entirety of the itinerary and consequently Qantas was on the hook for compensation as they were the reason why I ended up arriving in Sydney 14 hours late. In my case, I filled out the customer feedback form and about a day later they replied by to my concern, firstly apologizing for the delay, secondly recognizing that they are on the hook for EU261 compensation and thirdly asking for bank details to wire over the funds.

I will also point out that Qantas has a section of their website discussing EU related travel concerns. In particular, there is an Online Dispute Resolution platform the EU has for issues surrounding EU261 if you cannot come to a reasonable resolution directly with the airline.

What I think is crucial here is to first reach out to Qantas and get them to confirm that you have been involuntarily downgraded and that since the trip originated in the EU, compensation is owed. If they say no that's fine, you can use the online dispute resolution platform. If they say yes, then you should be given a form to fill out with bank details so they can wire in the funds.

-RooFlyer88

 

[sanach]

Qantas’ Mysterious Downgrade Compensation Policy is an article written by the AFF editorial team:

Qantas' Mysterious Downgrade Compensation Policy

When Qantas moves a passenger from Business to Economy, they are entitled to compensation for the involuntary downgrade. But Qantas won't reveal how it calculates the refund amount.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

You can leave a comment or discuss this topic below.

I decided not to accept a downgrade and requested a full refund. On 10 September this year Qantas said I would receive refund in 5 business days. 2 months later I am still waiting They are using delaying tactics. Each time I phone them I receive an email requesting my BPAY details and adding another 8-10 days to the refund date. They’ve had my $6000 since 30 June 2023.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I decided not to accept a downgrade and requested a full refund. On 10 September this year Qantas said I would receive refund in 5 business days. 2 months later I am still waiting They are using delaying tactics. Each time I phone them I receive an email requesting my BPAY details and adding another 8-10 days to the refund date. They’ve had my $6000 since 30 June 2023.

This is one of the reasons why I would argue it makes sense to pay by credit card. If you request a refund but QF drags their feet it is very simple matter to call up the credit card company and request a chargeback on account of fee for no service. This is also why I would argue that merchants should be barred from charging customers to accept credit cards. Paying a fee just to pay for something reasonably is unreasonable.

-RooFlyer88

 

[sanach]

This is one of the reasons why I would argue it makes sense to pay by credit card. If you request a refund but QF drags their feet it is very simple matter to call up the credit card company and request a chargeback on account of fee for no service. This is also why I would argue that merchants should be barred from charging customers to accept credit cards. Paying a fee just to pay for something reasonably is unreasonable.

-RooFlyer88

Yes a lesson I have since learned.

 

[chrispy3276]

Hey all - just a question on this, as this has just happened to me for the first time - SYD to BNE J classic reward flight downgraded about a half hour before boarding (apparently a Captain is taking my seat and outranks my status). How do I go about requesting compensation? I also booked during DSC (eligible for SCs due to PC+), assuming I'll only be entitled to Y SCs now? Thanks!

Edit: Update - Got J SCs credited automatically shortly after landing (win), and the Business lounge gave me a 1300 number to ring as soon as I landed (they suggested I do it ASAP). Managed to get through to an agent straight away, but I don't kid when I say it took them almost 40 minutes to figure out what to refund me (and put through a refund request). They're refunding me the difference between J and Y (just over 10k points). At least it seems to have been easily sorted, but damn, you'd think it'd be easier for agents than that...

 

[Djabada]

Qantas’ Mysterious Downgrade Compensation Policy is an article written by the AFF editorial team:

Qantas' Mysterious Downgrade Compensation Policy

When Qantas moves a passenger from Business to Economy, they are entitled to compensation for the involuntary downgrade. But Qantas won't reveal how it calculates the refund amount.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

You can leave a comment or discuss this topic below.

Is there a publicly available Qantas downgrade policy that specifies the reimbursement at just 75%? Does QANTAS downgrade policy provide for reimbursement at only 75% of the difference between the higher fare paid for the premium ticket and the price of the economy seat travelled? What would be the rationale or justification to only refund part of the price difference, given that the downgrade became necessary because of aircraft operability issues?