Article: Qantas Bans Filming People On Flights Without Consent

By what authority would they do that?
By the authority delegated to Qantas when the passenger explicitly clicked "confirm" during checkin when Qantas asked the passenger to confirm they accept the Conditions of carriage.

And if the passenger wants to play silly games by refusing CC directions, then they are in line for silly prizes such as being met by onboarding LEO or dropped off somewhere other than what is printed on the boarding pass

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One big reason this rule is made is to protect the Qantas company. Imagine videos of rude staff going viral right now. Not a good time for that.

Also without a recording, if you had a claim of a Qantas staff performing an act of misconduct (I’m not saying this happens frequently), it does take away a large piece of substantial evidence. Thus giving a leg up to Qantas.
That's what I'm thinking too. Things like the filming of the UA incident won't be permitted which definitely should come out.

QF can sure post its rules like shopping centre entrances, but how enforceable are they? Can they really seize your device without getting into legal trouble?

As another has posted above, there's no right of privacy in Australia in a public place unless you're filming something indecent like upskirting.
 
What about us taking ''while in lounge pix/pixs".
This does open a whole "can of worms" for those of us who take pix of the food serving area, or the plate in front of us, of food while in the lounge/s.

No can of worms whatsoever. The policy stated is related to onboard theplane. But even if you extrapolate it to thelounge, it will be fine to take food pics, basically just need to avoid snapping the faces of people you do not have permission to photograph.
 
That's what I'm thinking too. Things like the filming of the UA incident won't be permitted which definitely should come out.

QF can sure post its rules like shopping centre entrances, but how enforceable are they? Can they really seize your device without getting into legal trouble?

As another has posted above, there's no right of privacy in Australia in a public place unless you're filming something indecent like upskirting.
It’s not going to stop people filming incidents on board. Those arise immediately and there won’t be time to ask permission.

While the airline might decide to retain the device until landing, there is no authority to delete the footage, or even get your password to access the device.

If it was a serious incident the passenger would potentially have evidence, and it wouldn’t be a good look for any company to proactively try and delete or destroy it.

I think there needs to be a degree of common sense when interpreting these rules… security incidents would clearly override the need to ask permission. For example security incidents on board MH as Sydney recently… you wouldn’t need to ask permission to take photos and send those to the police, who would benefit from real-time information.
 
It’s not going to stop people filming incidents on board. Those arise immediately and there won’t be time to ask permission.

While the airline might decide to retain the device until landing, there is no authority to delete the footage, or even get your password to access the device.

If it was a serious incident the passenger would potentially have evidence, and it wouldn’t be a good look for any company to proactively try and delete or destroy it.

I think there needs to be a degree of common sense when interpreting these rules… security incidents would clearly override the need to ask permission. For example security incidents on board MH as Sydney recently… you wouldn’t need to ask permission to take photos and send those to the police, who would benefit from real-time information.
Would the video evidence be admissible in a court ruling even though you are breaching Qantas's video policy?
 
Would the video evidence be admissible in a court ruling even though you are breaching Qantas's video policy?
You can bet Qantas would retrospectively provide permission for its staff if video supported action taken against the violent passenger.
 
You can bet Qantas would retrospectively provide permission for its staff if video supported action taken against the violent passenger.
I wonder if its not in Qanta's favour e.g. Qantas staff not acting to code, if it will get the permission.

Don't get we wrong I do like to the policy and rights in place for the privacy of both passengers and staff.

However I can see this policy be taken advantage of especially if you are receiving rude customer service beyond what is acceptable. You put in a complaint for example comments/behaviors displayed were deemed abusive. Without physical evidence it will become a he said/she said scenario, with only witnesses, capable of giving a testimony. It will all come down to interpretation of events and hard to analyze actual facts.
 
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I tend to think, as with most things QF, the intent is a good one - and I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory that it's just about protecting poor employees (more a side benefit or unintended consequence). QF is not the first airline in the world to specifically have such a policy and there are reasons. I also suspect there are less savory ones then filming a FA doing their job, but I'll leave that there.

As for the definition of public places and the law. This is such an interesting one to me, and no I'm no "bush lawyer" nor would I attempt to play one on TV because you know it's the vibe, it's Mabo, it's the constitution... no it's the vibe of the thing.....

I reckon it can be vague in certain situations, and there ARE examples of seemingly public places where photography/video is banned or at least heavily restricted for good reasons (think swimming pools, gyms etc). On the one hand, flying commercial is a form of public transport - one would consider the local bus or train to be a public place and have no consideration of privacy from general photography as on the beach, street etc...

OTOH, QF is a private company and they own (or at the very least operate) the aircraft you're being transported on. Now sure, the local bus or train is also likely operated by a private company who can assert conditions of carriage, but the reality is somewhat different I guess. Point being that QF can (and does) have conditions of carriage on their services (just as they can have a dress code at some of the domestic lounges - agree with it or not it's legal because the lounges are run by them and not a public place in the same sense that the terminal might be considered.

Is an aircraft cabin considered a public place? Are these rules enforceable? I think it's grey on the first point, and I can definitely see arguments on both sides. Enforceable? Well, if a crew member takes my phone - do I then have recourse about them "retaining" the device? If the answer to the first point is yes, then you'd think QF would be in a bit of trouble. Would it come to crew actually demanding to take a device off a passenger? I doubt it. There ma be some power trip types who would threaten it, but I think it's more a threat then an actual thing that would happen, but there as a warning - and as someone pointed up up thread for that person that wants to claim it's not in "the rules."

I honestly think that if push comes to shove on this kind of thing, forget the threats about devices and such, but it would come under the well known "failure to comply with crewmember instructions" - just about everyone knows that on an aircraft if you don't, well you can get into some big trouble - and that can be supported by federal regulations. Can that be a problem ? potentially.

At the end of the day though this really is one of those common sense things that you'd THINK people would follow as a matter of course (yes, it's the vibe of the thing imo). I mean someone deliberately filming or taking pictures of others without knowledge or consent is almost certainly not for a good reason - maybe harmless enough (ie: check out the person in the onesie in the lounge or gross bare feet on seats) - or less so. Where does filming crew if there are issues fall into this? unsure. Context is everything - just like the case of someone being pulled off a flight for being a drunken idiot or something - which as pointed out above will still be filmed (and I think in that sort of case nothing would happen to those that do so. it's just society these days).
 
On the one hand, flying commercial is a form of public transport - one would consider the local bus or train to be a public place and have no consideration of privacy from general photography as on the beach, street etc...

Public transport operators are allowed to prohibit photography on their services.

Melbourne trains has done so (permission is needed), and NSW "requires" would be photographers to ask for permission on safety grounds, although it says it can't stop people taking photos. I think that's more a pragmatic statement than a legal one, as it does prohibit commercial photography without permission.

Qantas is well within its rights to do the same.
 
I tend to think, as with most things QF, the intent is a good one - and I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory that it's just about protecting poor employees (more a side benefit or unintended consequence). QF is not the first airline in the world to specifically have such a policy and there are reasons. I also suspect there are less savory ones then filming a FA doing their job, but I'll leave that there.
Great points, nice to hear the different perspectives.
 
Noting that the majority of the time you are in public or on public transport you are being filmed. All Sydney buses, trains and trams have security cameras, as do stations, airport terminals, most shops, some traffic crossings, public parks etc.

I don't have an issue with Qantas' policy nor do I think it was introduced to protect poor behaviour from cabin crew. IME the QF cabin crew are the best QF employees after the pilots.
 
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Noting that the majority of the time you are in public or on public transport you are being filmed. All Sydney buses, trains and trams have security cameras, as do stations, airport terminals, most shops, some traffic crossings, public parks etc.

I don't have an issue with Qantas' policy nor do I think it was introduced to protect poor behaviour from cabin crew. IME the QF cabin crew are the best QF employees after the pilots.
Couldn’t agree more! There’s a the odd crew member who’s clearly not having a good day, but otherwise they’re a pretty good bunch!

The difference though with security cameras is that the footage isn’t being recorded for a reason. No one is going to look at it unless there’s an incident. On a plane it’s different… you’re being filmed specifically for the purpose of wanting to watch it back later. That’s what tips it differently, for me at least.
 
No one is going to look at it unless there’s an incident.

On some Sydney busses the onboard security camera footage is live streamed on the tv screens in the bus, it cycles through the front, middle and back camera in between adverts for drivers and event service chnages. It always feels odd when I look up and see myself. Have more than once looked up and see some unsuspecting grot picking their nose LOL
 
I think all people in their workplaces (aircraft, hospitals, supermarkets, wherever) should have a right to privacy and not be photographed without consent.
oh I agree with this fully but our new society where 90% of the people have a video camera in their pocket and many will use them it's far harder in an more open setting such as these vs a closed office environment (and even then you can have a coworker film you I guess). Wherever there's interactions with the public there's going to be that potential issue. I certainly wouldn't be taking pictures or video of anyone in their workplace but we've all seen that it happens - and specially in the context of things going awry staff will get in videos - think of those endless videos of people having meltdowns in shops (that really escalated during Covid) or the idiots on planes etc and staff will get in these videos almost as collateral damage if they're trying to calm the situation (or possibly overzealous security staff or whatever).

As for CCTV - oh goodness, most cities have CCTV on the streets, cameras are all over Melbourne, Sydney, London etc and on transport, in taxis etc. My building has cameras we can select and display eg the front door, garage, public areas etc. Not to mention many houses in streets have door cameras, dash cams in cars and trucks etc, policy body cams (and some regular shops issuing body cams to staff too) so it's all out there. I personally have no issue with this kind of thing - the use is obviously for security in the main. I don't worry about it as I'm not up to anything I shouldn't be and if it helps then so much the better. and seems half the nightly news sometimes is made up with images from people's dashcams or phone video of various things these days :) The main thing is of course that these cameras and systems are not being deployed specifically at individuals or the like. That's quite different o someone choosing to use their device to target individuals (for whatever reasons).
 
Noting that the majority of the time you are in public or on public transport you are being filmed. All Sydney buses, trains and trams have security cameras, as do stations, airport terminals, most shops, some traffic crossings, public parks etc.

I don't have an issue with Qantas' policy nor do I think it was introduced to protect poor behaviour from cabin crew. IME the QF cabin crew are the best QF employees after the pilots.
That last sentence speaks volumes about the organisation.
 
That implies he asks them.

It may well be the case that YTubers assume implied consent - that is passenger did not withdraw consent so consent was implied and maybe SC only blurs the passengers who withdraw consent not because he asks them but perhaps after they objected while they were being videoed.

I think it is better to passengers to actively give consent rather than have to withdraw consent. Sam Chui / Dennis Bunnick /etc has to now ask for consent prior to videoing/photographing people on airplanes

I hope they enforce it. There is enough disruption in an aircraft. I don't want my quiet enjoyment (to the extent that it exists on an airplane) to be disrupted by some influencer/youtuber
 
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It may well be the case that YTubers assume implied consent - that is passenger did not withdraw consent so consent was implied and maybe SC only blurs the passengers who withdraw consent not because he asks them but perhaps after they objected while they were being videoed.

I think it is better to passengers to actively give consent rather than have to withdraw consent. Sam Chui / Dennis Bunnick /etc has to now ask for consent prior to videoing/photographing people on airplanes

I hope they enforce it. There is enough disruption in an aircraft. I don't want my quiet enjoyment (to the extent that it exists on an airplane) to be disrupted by some influencer/youtuber

I was saying Noel Phillips blurs out pax. I don't think SC gives a fark.
 

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