Article: Should Airlines Rebook Sick Passengers for Free?

[annier]

This article assumes the coughter was coughty when they boarded. May have come down with coughtiness once aboard!

 

[DazMel]

A sick passenger putting the crew at risk and we probably think about cabin crew.
A few years back I flew VA MEL-PER (B737) and as soon as seat belt light out a passenger from about row 8 dashed for the forward bathroom and then spent the next 2 hours if not in bathroom then in feotal position on hard floor at crew seats. The cabin crew went the extra mile to accomodate the sick pax, with blankets and pillow and disenfected the bathroom after each visit pax made. But this is the bathroom the pilots use and the the galley with food preparation is about a metre away. I asked myself at the time how could this pax board the flight in that state of ill health and no thought to the biohazard she potentialy exposed the rest of the pax to either directly or indirectly by impacting the health of the pilots.

 

[Pushka]

The TB patient was diagnosed after the flights.
She felt well but after the flight coughed up blood and had an alert GP so the diagnosis was made.
@Pushka she probably felt better than most with chronic sinusitis.

So really there's nothing that could have been done to avoid her travelling, and TB is obviously pretty serious. (Yes, I understand the chronic sinusitis sufferer in the immediate family felt like rubbish but until Covid hit, he had to travel for work which was a prolonged preparation of drops, tablets and continual headaches. He had to stop flying during Covid, had the surgery and now cannot believe the difference. )


So really the main thrust of this article is to avoid the gastro type illnesses. We were on an international flight where the crew member became extremely unwell mid flight. And they put him in our row in the J cabin. Guess that prevented crew exposure.

 

[Bolt]

I had no idea that you could request a fee-free change for being sick. I once boarded a flight in a very remote part of Australia after being called by my doctor saying that I have a fractured bone and you need to come back to get treatment. Thanks to the Australian medical system, it took weeks to get diagnosed with a broken bone, between waiting for a GP appointment and an X-Ray appointment, and having that sent back to my GP. Somehow I ended up mentioning this to an FA, and they were considering deboarding me. I became very worried about the consequences. I wasn't deboarded in the end. But I had concluded that disclosing any kind of illness or injury could cost me alot of time, money, and inconvenience.

Meanwhile, I notice people coughing and sniffling snot on planes and feel quite annoyed. But I also acknowledge that I'd do the same if I was them. It sucks, but you really don't have any choice do you? Thanks to this article, it turns out that you might have a choice!

Although, the article doesn't mention whether or not those who have reported feeling unwell have been penalized through either having the choice and or remedy taken away from them. The fare classes for rebooked fares also end up being more expensive than if you booked a new flight too. So, you'll end up conned out of your money anyway.

I don't think anyone really wants to take the time and money for a GP to diagnose oneself with a stuffy nose just to have the option for a fee-free flight change. Net-net it still costs more. On the flip side, I have a friend that once took a flight with a blocked stuffy nose, and he ended up blowing his eardrums.

Thank you. An excellent and informative article. I look forward to more.

 

[esther_a]

Our story:
We arrived at DEL in December 2022 for a J award flight to MEL. The husband began to feel pain in the taxi on the way. By the time we arrived at the check-in he was in agony. The Qantas check-in staff were very helpful, assisted us to find the medical staff and even (as a special once-off?!) released two award seats for a replacement flight three days later. I'm not sure if we would have been successful arrranging that over the phone, but they were very keen for us NOT to board the plane! BTW, my AMEX Platinum included travel insurance covered all other medical and accommodation costs. Any my husband had kidney stones which were gone within a day.

 

[bussyboy]

Our story:
BTW, my AMEX Platinum included travel insurance covered all other medical and accommodation costs.

Helpful to know they came to the party - I presume this was Chubb, as is currently with the Qantas ultimate card

 

[esther_a]

Helpful to know they came to the party - I presume this was Chubb, as is currently with the Qantas ultimate card

Yes, Chubb with platinum charge card

PS: we did present to hospital emergency in New Delhi for scans etc. so had that as evidence for our claim.

 

[BJReplay]

For those saying "that's what TI is for" or "why would they fly if sick?", I don't know of any TI policies that cover you if you choose not to fly because you are sick and don't want to infect others. They only cover you if you are assessed as being medically unfit to fly, which is not the same thing.

TL;DR; you fly when you're sick because TI says you won't get covered if you're not hospitalised, and your flight is non-refundable.

I probably could have (if push came to shove) found accommodation in Reykjavik for 5 or 10 days - but I was still testing positive 10 days later.

I could have afforded to pay for new business class airfares at peak season from Reykjavik to Melbourne, if I'd had to.

But TI would not have helped.

More to the point, they'll do very little for you when you are very sick in terms of offering on the ground assistance. My father - 88 years old and with pre-existing morbidities caught covid in 2022. TI covered COVID and his pre-existing conditions (and would want to - cost him $4500+).

Travel insurance basically said "sure, if he's hospitalised, we'll help, but until then, good luck".

Local health (Iceland) were great, we were in a remote area, arranged a phone consult for us, told us how to arrange emergency medical care if we needed it, where to turn up if we felt we could drive there, or to call an ambulance if we felt we couldn't, but basically said "sorry, we don't have antivirals in Iceland, so there's not much more we can do other than offer advice on symptomatic treatment". The doctor did provide a phone script for some drugs that would be OTC in Aus but were script in Iceland for us to pick up in the nearest town (150km away).

Unsurprisingly, 3 out of the four of us caught it. I got it worst as (at the time we left) I wasn't eligible for a booster, and so I hadn't had a recent vaccination, and got quite unwell.

Guess what; my travel insurance said the same thing: we'll cover you if you're hospitalised, otherwise, good luck.

So, I jumped on that plane, P95 masked up for other passengers' and flight crews' benefit, and flew to New York via Vienna, coughing all the way, with fever and rigours. And spent five days in New York in bed.

It's not that I didn't know, or didn't care, but that I didn't have a spare $15,000 for accommodation and new flights to do the right thing, having been told that TI wasn't going to help until I was hospitalised.

 

[SOPOOR]

I think its very compassionate and customer service if an airline refunds/credits you if you are sick, but in todays world, where so many people especially younger people who self diagnose random conditions or play the mental illness game, I can see it being abused big time

 

[Pixiechick]

Interesting about the concept of TI. I read the PDS in detail and always call to clarify if there are any questions. For example, TI will cover Covid (including cancellations), but you need to be so unwell that a medical professional notes you are unfit to fly. I asked multiple insurers what happens if you have a positive RAT or PCR, and the general response was that unless the airline won't allow you on, or the country you're travelling to won't let you in, you are out of luck claiming any coverage on Covid unless you are effectively hospitalised. SO... ethically it might be the right thing not to fly, but the airlines and TI won't cover changes. I totally understand how most people would choose to get on the plane as the cost to change could be $000s, even though they did the right thing and got comprehensive TI.

 

[Pixiechick]

TL;DR; you fly when you're sick because TI says you won't get covered if you're not hospitalised, and your flight is non-refundable.

I probably could have (if push came to shove) found accommodation in Reykjavik for 5 or 10 days - but I was still testing positive 10 days later.

I could have afforded to pay for new business class airfares at peak season from Reykjavik to Melbourne, if I'd had to.

But TI would not have helped.

More to the point, they'll do very little for you when you are very sick in terms of offering on the ground assistance. My father - 88 years old and with pre-existing morbidities caught covid in 2022. TI covered COVID and his pre-existing conditions (and would want to - cost him $4500+).

Travel insurance basically said "sure, if he's hospitalised, we'll help, but until then, good luck".

Local health (Iceland) were great, we were in a remote area, arranged a phone consult for us, told us how to arrange emergency medical care if we needed it, where to turn up if we felt we could drive there, or to call an ambulance if we felt we couldn't, but basically said "sorry, we don't have antivirals in Iceland, so there's not much more we can do other than offer advice on symptomatic treatment". The doctor did provide a phone script for some drugs that would be OTC in Aus but were script in Iceland for us to pick up in the nearest town (150km away).

Unsurprisingly, 3 out of the four of us caught it. I got it worst as (at the time we left) I wasn't eligible for a booster, and so I hadn't had a recent vaccination, and got quite unwell.

Guess what; my travel insurance said the same thing: we'll cover you if you're hospitalised, otherwise, good luck.

So, I jumped on that plane, P95 masked up for other passengers' and flight crews' benefit, and flew to New York via Vienna, coughing all the way, with fever and rigours. And spent five days in New York in bed.

It's not that I didn't know, or didn't care, but that I didn't have a spare $15,000 for accommodation and new flights to do the right thing, having been told that TI wasn't going to help until I was hospitalised.

Did you read the PDS and/or ask any questions before purchasing the TI? I tested positive 2 days before I was meant to fly back to SYD from NY (J class). This was when AU and QF stopped requiring testing for flying/entry, but NY still had a 5 day quarantine requirement.

Called TA, who told me it would cost $5.5K each for me and partner to change flight, and only option was either 6 or 14 days later. I freaked out, but then called TI (Allianz) and they were AMAZING. They said that's what TI is for, asked if I needed them to pay for the flight change if we didn't have the funds, suggested we take the flight 14 days later (as my partner hadn't yet tested positive, and likely would meaning a further quarantine). We changed our flights, TI kept in touch to make sure we didn't need anything (extra scripts, etc.) and when I claimed, they paid in full... even checking that we didn't have additional accommodation/food/etc. costs (we didn't as we were staying with family).

 

[latawiec]

The work I did meant I saw a lot of genuine cases of illness that wasn’t easily predictable. Fortunately in Australia the airlines are very good with their treatment of the compassionate cases.
It is better if your doctor is involved and speaks to the airlines medical staff. That usually ensures that there are no misunderstanding on either side.

On the other side are those cases where there is no immediate need for treatment such as coughs and colds it really is up to the individual to think of the other passengers and crew. If you have a cough or cold you really should take simple precautions such as wearing a mask.

Yes people should have travel insurance but the situation is that most people who have a cold etc will travel because they can’t get a credit or get rebooked easily. And that puts other folk at risk.
Not all colds are simple. I was involved in treating a woman who had flown from LHR to SYD and who had coughed through out the flights. She had TB. There ended up being 2 people who eventually tested positive for TB on the Australian sector and another on the sector out of LHR.

So it is not always a black and white issue.

Ron, agree.

What could be added that there is always option to purchase the "flexible fares", that obviously costs more...

 

[latawiec]

The TB patient was diagnosed after the flights.
She felt well but after the flight coughed up blood and had an alert GP so the diagnosis was made.
@Pushka she probably felt better than most with chronic sinusitis.

It is obvious that such pax would be a health risk to others.

I have a hypothetical question about health rules for the Airlines to handle or isolate sick pax

 

[BJReplay]

Did you read the PDS and/or ask any questions before purchasing the TI?

Yep, always do, before buying, when comparing policies.

This trip was previously scheduled for 2020, cancelled (and partially refunded under TI due to covid - there was a brief window when flights were being cancelled but before the WHO declared it was a pandemic, and I claimed for non-refundable accommodation costs at that time).

I know my TI rules

This was when AU and QF stopped requiring testing for flying/entry, but NY still had a 5 day quarantine requirement.

I wish!

We didn't have any quarantine requirements to enter the US or NY (or leave or re-enter AU), but did have to sign the declaration saying that we were vaccinated to enter US.

Didn't have to say if we were well or sick, so didn't.

If we had tested (or been forced to test by someone in immigration or border control - though we were just transiting, we still had to go through border control) in Vienna who thought we looked too sick to travel, then TI would have kicked in, as Austria had compulsory isolation if you tested positive.

 

[Quickstatus]

TI medical coverage that includes evacuation in order to enter the country.

but thats incompatible with ...

we would see less go fund me requests for drunken bogans who injure themselves riding motor bikes unlicensed

So thats a TI with no exclusions. In that case it will be impossible to find an insurer willing to underwrite it.

Some one who is infectious with TB shouldnt be out interacting in the community

TB often is just a cough. Should we say to everyone with a cough to isolate - that is to say when is a cough a cough.


This thread reminds me of the Qantas Covid Travel Credit Fiasco......

 

[SCM]

My view is, if airlines want to ask passengers not to travel because they are sick, these airlines need to work with the customer to rebook them at a date and time of their greatest convenience, otherwise it's unfair.

 

[Lynda2475]

So thats a TI with no exclusions.

LOL nope, please do not misconstrue what I have said, into silly assumptions.

The insurance requirements to visit Cuba re are very clear; I witnessed a traveler be denied entry for not being able to produce a policy which specified coverage for medical evacuation from Cuba at immigration (so obviously nothing underwritten by a US company due to sanctions). They do not check everyone, but it is a documented condition of entry.

There is also always an element of personal responsibility, if you undertake an activity which is excluded then you choose to void your coverage. I made it clear that idiots who travel uninsured or behave such to void their cover have made their own bed, and that it is imo pathetic they then expect others to "go fund me" to rescue them from their own stupidity.

If you cant afford the right insurance you cant afford to travel internationally. Only a fool takes out a policy without reading the inclusions and more importantly exclusions.

In that case it will be impossible to find an insurer willing to underwrite it.

Nope I had zero difficulty finding a policy that met the Cuba requirements. I always select insurance based on planned activities always pay any extra premium needed to cover extras such as scuba diving or cruising if may be needed, and I do not undertake activities like quad bikes or which Im not covered for.

TB often is just a cough. Should we say to everyone with a cough to isolate - that is to say when is a cough a cough.

Again nothing I ever suggested. I noted that people travel with coughs all the time (although as a nationally notifiable disease, if you knowingly have active TB you should be isolating until treatment is completed).

I am clearly against airlines offering free changes for minor illnesses like a cough, if you read what I actually wrote that much would be very very clear. It would do nothing but drive up costs for everyone.

I even pointed out during covid restrictions when it was super easy to get a credit for flights if you had covid or symptoms, how many still travelled. Much of the public care not if they share their illness, the risk of exposure to ill people exists whenever ones leave the house. So stay up to date with your vaccinations, and travel on.

If you are genuinely too sick to travel TI kicks in with medical confirmation, if not covered by TI and you self diagnose unfit to fly and you have chosen inflexible fares, then you wear the cost of using the credit later or change fee. If you are risk adverse you buy flexible fare class. Simples.

It is not for the many to subsidize poor decisions of the few, or those who travel without sufficient $ to cover emergencies.

 

[Quickstatus]

insurance requirements

My point was that a TI where there are no exclusions - for example due alcohol for the drunken bogan who PAFO (pissed and fell over in Bali or Cuba for that matter) who then gets a brain injury and who then needs medical evac will be very hard to get.

It is all well and good for Cuba to demand appropriate travel insurance, but the problem is the traveller with a TI which has been excluded. What is Cuba going to do with the brain injured traveller in Cuba whose TI has been excluded?

It is different in Australia. The medical care is first class, but there is very little if any chasing uninsured travellers/travellers with excluded TI for medical debts which are just written off. These travellers essentially get looked after for free. I do wish that the Aus Govt would also impose a requirement for appropriate TI for visitors into Australia - at least the taxpayer is not out of pocket for most of them seeking medical care.

if you knowingly have active TB

You ignore the scenario of the undiagnosed - like most people with a cough in an airplane. The issue for me is where to draw the line. When is a cough a cough? - significant enough to deem somone unwell.

 

[Lynda2475]

What is Cuba going to do with the brain injured traveller in Cuba whose TI has been excluded?

Why is it Cuba's problem that a drunken fool gets injured? Where is the personal responsibility? The proficient yet technology limited Cuban doctors will provide basic emergency care, but then it it's up to the travelling fool or their family to make further arrangements.

Their policy is awesome and I think Australia should require similar for citizens of countrieswe dont have recipricol arrangements with. Sensible people don't get plastered nor undertake uninsured activities, stupid people do not get any sympathy from me.

FYI my tour guide from Cuba (a Spanish citizen, lives in Cuba 6 months of year) was injured in Cuba last year when hiking. A farmer felled a huge tree on top of hill without checking bellow which came crashing down the hill crushing my friends leg as she hiked with a group she was guiding on a popular trail. Leg shattered in multiple places.

She received emergency care in Cuba (her TI was billed), including having pins placed, once stabilised was flown back to Spain where she had more corrective surgery.

When is a cough a cough? - significant enough to deem somone unwell.

When it's been officially diagnosed as something harmful like TB or Whooping Cough by a medical professional.

Trying to give an out for someone with a throat tickle (I had an annoying dry cough every time I'm laughed for about 3 months after covid but was not infectious) is ludicrous.

 

[Quickstatus]

When it's been officially diagnosed

People are no less infectious without a diagnosis. This may also mean they may be non infectious as well.

throat tickle

So where is the line?
Just because someone has a cough does not mean they cant travel.
I think travellers are the opposite - they are not looking for an out, rather they are looking for a way in even if they obviously are in no position to fly.

Why is it Cuba's problem that a drunken fool gets injured

They obviously don't want to be shouldered by the cost, otherwise Cuba would not demand TI cover as an entry requirement.