Ask The Pilot

[jb747]

Kai Tak...what was I drinking?

We were told that we would have a short delay arriving into SYD this evening due to "ATC Sequencing Requirements". Any idea what that might be?

Basically they build a sequence of who will land on which runway, and in which order, and then hold, speed up or slow down, or vector aircraft to make them fit. It's more or less what happens everywhere....

 

[jetlagger]

Kai Tak...what was I drinking?



Basically they build a sequence of who will land on which runway, and in which order, and then hold, speed up or slow down, or vector aircraft to make them fit. It's more or less what happens everywhere....

Thanks jb747... Educated validation for me too Have heard or variance of this terminology many of times.

 

[mjt57]

Kai Tak...what was I drinking?

Hogan Hermitage, perhaps?

(remember him on A.A?)

 

[simongr]

Big props to jb747 who I met today on QF1 to SIN. Had a great chat early in the flight (before the enormous Gin and tonic kicked in) and then had a chance to sit in the left hand seat after the other pax had disembarked. To anyone that thinks you could fly the A380 - simply put you couldn't... I have never seen so many buttons in my life!!!!

However - I do now know the difference between the autopilot disconnect and the push to talk button so I would be fine to take control - apart from the Champers and red wine of course.

Great flight again and thanks to jb747 - just need to book you for boygr's flight to the UK next year!

 

[HW]

and then had a chance to sit in the left hand seat after the other pax had disembarked. To anyone that thinks you could fly the A380 - simply put you couldn't... I have never seen so many buttons in my life!!!!

However - I do now know the difference between the autopilot disconnect and the push to talk button so I would be fine to take control ...

I can second this - I got the opportunity to fly a 777 sim yesterday, all I had to do was fly an approach from 3000 ft that was started in line with the runway with the whole aircraft set up, no systems failure, no weather. Flare too early, a less than elegant go-around with a few 'bank angle' and 'sink rate' warnings, the auto-throttle didn't engage when I came around so had to hand fly it. I got it on the ground second time but it was not very elegant. "Better send for a truck to go pick up your nose landing gear" was what the sim engineer had to say. Stepping out of the seat I was sweating and it felt like a monster workout for such a simple thing. All I can conclude is that the best place for me in an aircraft is firmly planted in Seat 4A, and not 'Seat 0A' like I thought...

 

[rechoboam]

I can second this - I got the opportunity to fly a 777 sim yesterday, all I had to do was fly an approach from 3000 ft that was started in line with the runway with the whole aircraft set up, no systems failure, no weather. Flare too early, a less than elegant go-around with a few 'bank angle' and 'sink rate' warnings, the auto-throttle didn't engage when I came around so had to hand fly it. I got it on the ground second time but it was not very elegant. "Better send for a truck to go pick up your nose landing gear" was what the sim engineer had to say. Stepping out of the seat I was sweating and it felt like a monster workout for such a simple thing. All I can conclude is that the best place for me in an aircraft is firmly planted in Seat 4A, and not 'Seat 0A' like I thought...

What sort of sim ? Where?

 

[HW]

What sort of sim ? Where?

A fixed cab in Seattle

 

[ChrisGibbs]

JB747 - a question for you. I arrived into SYD Saturday morning on the QF2 A380 service from SIN. The early descent had some delay manoevring to allow for an arrival just after the lifting of the curfew at 5:00am. The approach to 34L appeared normal until we were about 10-15 miles from the airfield. Rather than continuing with the approach and landing on 34L we diverted in an easterly direction off the coast of SYD for about 15-20 minutes doing a figure 8 pattern with what appeared to be a higher than normal nose up attitude. The Captain made a PA saying there was a minor problem requiring some recalculations and we would be making another approach. Shortly after we made another approach onto 34L and an uneventful landing with a bunch of fire vehicles in attendance. Unfortunately I didn't get all of the PA from the Captain after landing. From what I could gather there was a problem with extending the flaps to Flaps 3. The reduction in flaps required a higher than normal approach / landing speed. What would cause something like this to happen and why would this require fire vehicles to be in attendance? I would have thought the length of 34L in SYD would have been sufficient even for the higher than normal approach / landing speed. Also what is the procedure if you are unable to configure the Flaps to their normal setting for landing?

 

[Awesom Andy]

I'll let the pilots fill in the details, but flaps problems aren't uncommon, and in this case, it appears that everything has gone by the textbook. Basically, a problem was discovered, and there was no immediate need to land, so they go into holding and run through the checklists while there. Emergency services were notified as a safety precaution, and are at the runway ready for action should the most unlikely event occurs.

 

[RailFlyer]

Hi jb747, as so many others have said, thanks for such an interesting thread. Also, in advance, all the normal apologies if any of my questions have been asked before. I have a few questions if don't mind....


1) [Curiosity Question]. Occasionally when landing in bad weather and typically in smaller planes it can feel like there is a lot of weaving of the plane once we have touched down. Is this just a massive (false) amplification by my senses, or is the plane really moving much side to side as the pilot tries to straighten it up? What I don't understand is that if it is as bad as I think, in a car even a F1 driver would be hard pressed to control a tank slapper at those speed, especially on wet tarmac. Why do planes not suffer the same fate?


2) [Silly Hypothetical Question]. If both pilots are knocked unconscious after the reverse thrusters are deployed (let’s not worry about how such an event could happen!), would most planes come to a stop and then start to reverse, or is there an interlock built into the system to stop them once the planes speed is zero automatically?


3) [Nosey Question]. When Qantas pilots retire, do they get any automatic FF status? (that is before any potential future "enhancements" of your contract!) What about pre-retirement, do you get to use the CL lounge for private travel?

 

[DeKa]

Great flight again and thanks to jb747 - just need to book you for boygr's flight to the UK next year!

I keep watching jb747's schedule too, but haven't managed to organise it properly yet! I always listen out for the Captain's name though - I flew on last night's QF128 HKG-SYD A380 flight with Capt Mal Stewart/Stuart.

I have a question jb747. I was fortunate to be upgraded to premium economy. I've never sat right at the back of an A380 before - usually I'm in the first section of Economy. Due to Tropical Depression Doksuri near Hong Kong, it was a slightly bumpier than usual departure. From where I was sitting, there was a lot of 'roller coaster' feeling movement (up and down) and an equal number lateral movements. Is that a function of being at the very back (and perhaps why F and J are at the front?)

 

[straitman]

I'll let the pilots fill in the details, but flaps problems aren't uncommon, and in this case, it appears that everything has gone by the textbook. Basically, a problem was discovered, and there was no immediate need to land, so they go into holding and run through the checklists while there. Emergency services were notified as a safety precaution, and are at the runway ready for action should the most unlikely event occurs.

A good explanation IMHO.

I keep watching jb747's schedule too, but haven't managed to organise it properly yet! I always listen out for the Captain's name though - I flew on last night's QF128 HKG-SYD A380 flight with Capt Mal Stewart/Stuart.

I have a question jb747. I was fortunate to be upgraded to premium economy. I've never sat right at the back of an A380 before - usually I'm in the first section of Economy. Due to Tropical Depression Doksuri near Hong Kong, it was a slightly bumpier than usual departure. From where I was sitting, there was a lot of 'roller coaster' feeling movement (up and down) and an equal number lateral movements. Is that a function of being at the very back (and perhaps why F and J are at the front?)

That certainly was an issue that Boeing had with the 747 and managed to overcome with the 777. I do not know have it goes on the A380 though.

 

[jb747]

JB747 - a question for you. I arrived into SYD Saturday morning on the QF2 A380 service from SIN. The early descent had some delay manoevring to allow for an arrival just after the lifting of the curfew at 5:00am. The approach to 34L appeared normal until we were about 10-15 miles from the airfield. Rather than continuing with the approach and landing on 34L we diverted in an easterly direction off the coast of SYD for about 15-20 minutes doing a figure 8 pattern with what appeared to be a higher than normal nose up attitude. The Captain made a PA saying there was a minor problem requiring some recalculations and we would be making another approach. Shortly after we made another approach onto 34L and an uneventful landing with a bunch of fire vehicles in attendance. Unfortunately I didn't get all of the PA from the Captain after landing. From what I could gather there was a problem with extending the flaps to Flaps 3. The reduction in flaps required a higher than normal approach / landing speed. What would cause something like this to happen and why would this require fire vehicles to be in attendance? I would have thought the length of 34L in SYD would have been sufficient even for the higher than normal approach / landing speed. Also what is the procedure if you are unable to configure the Flaps to their normal setting for landing?

I haven't heard anything about this, so I don't know the details.

At a guess I'd say that the system detected any asymmetry during the extension. In that case the slats/flaps lock in their present position, and cannot be moved again in flight. I'd also be prepared to bet that it was spurious warning.

It makes surprising little difference to the approach speed...a couple of knots. Pitch attitude will be higher, and the risk of a tailstrike in the flare increased over normal (but still not a big issue). The aircraft would drop back to alternate law. Speed control in the approach is appreciably more difficult without the drag provided by the flaps.

Runway distance requirement is not an issue. I'd expect that the crew did not ask for the emergency crews, but that would most likely be a consequence of telling ATC about the issue.

This was one of the items covered in the most recent sim exercise.

 

[simongr]

This was one of the items covered in the most recent sim exercise.

You have probably answered this already but do have periodic themes for sim exercises? Do they do a bunch of one particular incident - especially if they have had an incident recently? I suspect not so that you can't practice for the sim...

 

[jb747]

1) [Curiosity Question]. Occasionally when landing in bad weather and typically in smaller planes it can feel like there is a lot of weaving of the plane once we have touched down. Is this just a massive (false) amplification by my senses, or is the plane really moving much side to side as the pilot tries to straighten it up? What I don't understand is that if it is as bad as I think, in a car even a F1 driver would be hard pressed to control a tank slapper at those speed, especially on wet tarmac. Why do planes not suffer the same fate?

Hopefully you're not seeing 'tank slappers' in the aircraft, though having said that, some of the skid marks on runways around the world must have interesting stories attached to them.

Unlike cars, the aircraft have a tail. They will tend to weather cough into a zero sideslip condition if allowed. They don't necessarily move all that much across the runway, but the control inputs needed to keep them there can be quite extreme at times.

2) [Silly Hypothetical Question]. If both pilots are knocked unconscious after the reverse thrusters are deployed (let’s not worry about how such an event could happen!), would most planes come to a stop and then start to reverse, or is there an interlock built into the system to stop them once the planes speed is zero automatically?

Reverse thrust does very little. The % of reverse power available is a small fraction of the possible forward thrust. In it's own right, it would take just about forever to stop the aircraft. All of the big aircraft have automatic braking systems. We preselect a desired deceleration rate, and the braking modulates itself to allow for reverse usage. If you did nothing, the aircraft would brake to a stop. If the engines were still in high power reverse at that point, they'd most likely compressor stall.

Automatic braking is normally disengaged at about the same time we cancel reverse (about 70 knots).

3) [Nosey Question]. When Qantas pilots retire, do they get any automatic FF status? (that is before any potential future "enhancements" of your contract!) What about pre-retirement, do you get to use the CL lounge for private travel?

No, in fact you lose most of the priority that you have with regard to staff travel. There is no FF status. The CL cannot be used at all.

 

[jb747]

I keep watching jb747's schedule too, but haven't managed to organise it properly yet! I always listen out for the Captain's name though - I flew on last night's QF128 HKG-SYD A380 flight with Capt Mal Stewart/Stuart.

Mal...aka Captain 'hello again'. One of the most experienced of the 380 pilots.

I was fortunate to be upgraded to premium economy. I've never sat right at the back of an A380 before - usually I'm in the first section of Economy. Due to Tropical Depression Doksuri near Hong Kong, it was a slightly bumpier than usual departure. From where I was sitting, there was a lot of 'roller coaster' feeling movement (up and down) and an equal number lateral movements. Is that a function of being at the very back (and perhaps why F and J are at the front?)

The back of the aircraft is always rough. It is the same in all aircraft. In some it can be more noticeable than others, and it can be accentuated by rudder 'yaw damper' activity. The best seats, in terms of motion, would be pretty much over the middle of the wing.

 

[jb747]

You have probably answered this already but do have periodic themes for sim exercises? Do they do a bunch of one particular incident - especially if they have had an incident recently? I suspect not so that you can't practice for the sim...

The content of the sim exercises is very carefully controlled. A sim instructor does not get to go off at a tangent, but must follow a well defined script. Of course the students are not so constrained, so the end result can have a lot of variation. The training department and CASA get together to define a matrix of items that must be covered over about a 3 year period. The sessions are then built to cover those items, as well as things like low visibility operations that need to be covered every session, or multiple engines out that comes up about every second sim.

Any given sim will start in the same way, but is likely to have two or three allowed scripts for the instructor to chose...so if you happen to do one of the exercises more than once (as happens if you do your own exercise, and then a support for somebody) you'll almost certainly see it go down in slightly different ways.

 

[jukebox333]

The back of the aircraft is always rough. It is the same in all aircraft. In some it can be more noticeable than others, and it can be accentuated by rudder 'yaw damper' activity. The best seats, in terms of motion, would be pretty much over the middle of the wing.

So what would be the outcome in an aircraft like a 717, where the middle of the wing is towards the rear?

(I assume the "yaw axis" (?) would be where the wing meets the fuselage, the movement at the rear would, in this instance, be less pronounced than at the front of the cabin?)

 

[jb747]

So what would be the outcome in an aircraft like a 717, where the middle of the wing is towards the rear?

(I assume the "yaw axis" (?) would be where the wing meets the fuselage, the movement at the rear would, in this instance, be less pronounced than at the front of the cabin?)

I don't see how it would be any different in a 717... I expect the best seat would be in a 7(any bigger number) watching the 717 from a distance.

Actually the least comfortable aircraft that I've flown in in recent memory would be the smaller Airbus 319. Hideous yaw/roll the whole time.

 

[FlyboyAl]

I expect the best seat would be in a 7(any bigger number) watching the 717 from a distance

Chuckle = I love this!!!