Ask The Pilot

[anat0l]

I whipped up an example of the UI of an Apple coughpit .

View attachment 8511

A restart message and the spinning beach ball of death. That makes me feel so much better. :mrgreen:

 

[juddles]

...
I'd guess most of the coughpit would be completely touch screen. ..

Anyone who thinks touchsreens are golden should be (as I have been) forced to send urgent texts from an iphone whilst careering along a very rough road in a clapped out old jeep. Simply impossible!! Good luck in a rough coughpit, even though todays levels of turbulence seem to be miniscule.

 

[docjames]

All I could see was a red X.....:!:

 

[mjt57]

Be careful what you wish for!

I'd guess most of the coughpit would be completely touch screen.

Imagine it - JB selects "gear up" just as the aircraft hits turbulence and accidentally sets off the fire extinguishers on all four engines...

 

[SeatBackForward]

Imagine it - JB selects "gear up" just as the aircraft hits turbulence and accidentally sets off the fire extinguishers on all four engines...

Or the main cabins in-flight entertainment is the Captains personal collection of itune songs....

 

[harvyk]

Anyone who thinks touchsreens are golden should be (as I have been) forced to send urgent texts from an iphone whilst careering along a very rough road in a clapped out old jeep. Simply impossible!! Good luck in a rough coughpit, even though todays levels of turbulence seem to be miniscule.

One of the problems is touch screens are not overly accurate, and will sometimes register that your finger touched another part of the screen to what it really did. Not so much of a problem when it means that the "S" key was press in a message instead of the "A" key. Bigger problem when it means the "Auto Pilot Disconnect" button is pressed instead of the turn off seat belt button.

The complete lack of feel that you get with a touchscreen over the more traditional buttons would also be a problem. I know when I drive my car, if I want to do something like change the radio station or turn on the heater (esp the heated seats in the van), I do that virtually 100% by feeling around until I get to the switch \ button which feels like it's the right one to pressing. At most I'd take a cursory glance in the general direction to make sure I'm not about to press the wrong button, but the initial finding of the button is almost always done "blind". I would imagine it would be similar for pilots as well.

 

[mjt57]

I'm currently surrounded by two iMacs, a Mac mini, 2 Airs, 1 Macbook Pro, and a number of iPads and iPhones.

I'm not familiar with the Mac hardware. What are all these different ones (other than iPads and iPhones which I have) used for?

Touch screens have been tried already. They don't work in coughpits. Firstly some of the screens are outside easy reach. They get VERY dirty. Moisture levels change dramatically. A work in progress at best.

We had what Bailey control systems called Management Command System consoles with touchscreens. Concept is OK, I s'pose except when you are constantly pressing warm screens and sometimes pressing hard to get a response. You soon get sore fingertips.

We moved to Windows based consoles (WinXP) which work OK for the most part. But I doubt that a mouse driven setup in the coughpit would be that flash, would it?

 

[SeatBackForward]

Here's a photo of an A380 coughpit, is this accurate JB?

From: http://samchuiphotos.com/A380Sydney/A380_Australia_visit_November_2005.html

 

[harvyk]

We moved to Windows based consoles (WinXP) which work OK for the most part. But I doubt that a mouse driven setup in the coughpit would be that flash, would it?

A little project of mine is building a 747 coughpit at home, and yes, I can assure you a mouse driven coughpit is definitely not very easy to use. Speaking from experience...

 

[docjames]

I have a question (inspired by the photo of the coughpit above):

How much operator configuration is there in the various aircraft coughpits?

Would you for example be able to basically hop in and fly a LH 380 or EK 380? Assuming the answer is "I could get it off the ground etc", how many differences would there be? What sort of things are different.


Does this vary much between models? Would a 763 pilot be able to fly any/most 763s? Would a 744 pilot be able to fly any/most 744s?

 

[harvyk]

I have a question (inspired by the photo of the coughpit above):
How much operator configuration is there in the various aircraft coughpits?

Yes there are differences mainly with the placements of some of the switches. Also some aircraft are also missing switches \ buttons which other coughpits do have (The terrain button is on most, but not all B747's for example) I suppose it's similar to a car where you pay extra to get extra things installed, airlines pay extra to get extra systems installed.

(PS, I'm not a pilot but I feel I'm qualified to answer due to two posts up and the sheer amount of research I've done for that project)

 

[jb747]

I'm not familiar with the Mac hardware. What are all these different ones (other than iPads and iPhones which I have) used for?

His and hers iMacs (basically 27" I7 computers). The Mac Mini is an I7 server that manages the data for the entire house. The Airs are small I7 laptops, and the MacBook Pro is my I7 laptop that goes on trips with me.

 

[jb747]

Here's a photo of an A380 coughpit, is this accurate JB?


From: A380 Australia visit November 2005

Yep, that's accurate. I can only see one difference between that image and our aircraft.

Aircraft do differ between airlines, but they are generally trivial differences. Radio or radar controls, or other small subsystems. Engines differ, but mostly that just means the coloured lines are in different places.

I could jump in any 767, 744 or 380 and fly it with at most a single page of 'differences'. Even the 747-800 is only a day or two 'course'. Actually, according to my licence, I could fly a 757...though I've never set foot in one.

 

[jb747]

I doubt that anyone is seriously considering changing the actual switches in an aircraft for touch screens. That's just not going to work in so many ways.

The 767 had a touch screen for the ACARS. It would get dirty and then start making its own decisions on what to say and when. Not a good design.

For the aircraft itself, the only realistic places for touch technology really relate to any iPad-like device that is used to replace the keyboard and OIT (and they'll be replaced by actual iPads). Perhaps they could be used with the FMCs, but I'd have my doubts.

You mention using a mouse...we already use a track ball with the FMC. Works quite well.

 

[jb747]

The complete lack of feel that you get with a touchscreen over the more traditional buttons would also be a problem. I know when I drive my car, if I want to do something like change the radio station or turn on the heater (esp the heated seats in the van), I do that virtually 100% by feeling around until I get to the switch \ button which feels like it's the right one to pressing. At most I'd take a cursory glance in the general direction to make sure I'm not about to press the wrong button, but the initial finding of the button is almost always done "blind". I would imagine it would be similar for pilots as well.

Wrong. Reaching for anything by feel is a recipe for pressing a similar, but incorrect, switch. Switch choices are made in slow time, and are often cross checked by the other pilots before actuating them.

Yes, there are circumstances where it is done, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

 

[SFSC]

Wrong. Reaching for anything by feel is a recipe for pressing a similar, but incorrect, switch.

I saw it happen in a power plant in about 1967. Guy in the old Vales Point 'A' intended to give the turbine governor speed setter an anticlockwise twist but opened off the nearby boiler circulation pumps board circuit breaker instead, tripping the boiler. Funny thing was that the governor setter had a triple pronged handle and circuit breaker controls only had one prong.

 

[Tortuga]

Morning JB from sunny Heathrow (I wish).... I have a question about pilots that end up flying "celebrities" and VIP's around. Are these pilots considered any different in skill level to the average large commercial airliner pilot? Are they usually on a higher pay grade considering the financial backing from those they fly around - I guess it wouldn't be suitable for some pilots with families who need some sort of stable rotation.

 

[jb747]

Morning JB from sunny Heathrow (I wish).... I have a question about pilots that end up flying "celebrities" and VIP's around. Are these pilots considered any different in skill level to the average large commercial airliner pilot? Are they usually on a higher pay grade considering the financial backing from those they fly around - I guess it wouldn't be suitable for some pilots with families who need some sort of stable rotation.

Jeez, I hate it when an answer just disappears into the ether...

Skill levels...I guess they vary dramatically. I have a friend who manages a fleet of 'Globals', and he's as good a pilot as you'll ever meet.

I expect that their pilots encompass a larger range than has been normal in airline ops. Their operations are much more varied, and have much less oversight, so they can be attractive to many who consider airline ops to be dull, but equally attractive to those who've been rejected by the airlines. I'm sure that many are also ex airline, having retired, or had their company go bust.

I actually expect the standards of airlines to fall, with this being driven by the accountants and their love of 'cadets'. Perhaps hiring a biz jet will become the safest option in days to come.

Pay wise....I don't know how well they are paid. But, from what little of know of the very rich, they don't seem to be the very generous, so I doubt that I'll be jumping onto that band wagon any time soon.

 

[D747]

As someone who has had a fascination with all things aviation, since my first ever flight ended with sitting in the jump seat of a DC-9 as it landed at YMEN, I can honestly say that this is the most compelling reading I have ever found on any site. A very special thanks to jb747, whose insight and tirelessness with answering all questions on here is exemplary. Having just completed reading this from page 1 to 238 I can only hope that I don't ask a question that someone else has previously.

jb, you have mentioned standby duties several times throughout this thread; on a normal day how many pilots of each rank, for each type, would be on standby?

 

[Sprucegoose]

Jeez, I hate it when an answer just disappears into the ether...



Pay wise....I don't know how well they are paid. But, from what little of know of the very rich, they don't seem to be the very generous, so I doubt that I'll be jumping onto that band wagon any time soon.

I had a mate who flew the Saudi Royal family around the world. He was never without shoes........