Ask The Pilot

[awilcockson]

Paint Jobs have got nothing to do with it being Air Force One, as thats the callsign used for whatever aircraft is carrying the president, the normal Presidential aircraft is a VC25, not an E4 or nightwatch aircraft which will normally be in close location to the VC25 on a tour. Two E4s visited Australia, one was in CBR while the other in BNE when President Bush was here in 2008.

I knew someone would pull me up on that point. Serves me right for posting in haste. I knew that Air Force One is the call sign given to whichever aircraft the POTUS is currently aboard, what I meant was that there is an aircraft that everyone is familiar with the stars down the side paint job that is usually referred to as "Air Force One", and that this obviously wasn't that aircraft.

 

[Simsy85]

Argh I saw one of the E4's when they were here when Bush was in town back in 2008 - was parked right outside our work which was at Brisbane Airport - awesome to look at, had a MASSIVE security contingent around it... I've got a photo of it somewhere, but not here with me

 

[Sifor]

Now, back up a little. How many of you, who have replied, have actually done it? Didn't think so.....

Irrespective of whether I have refueled mid air in real life (which of course I haven't...), in a simulator or simply studied the topic it doesn't change the fact that we share the same sentiments - civilian mid air refueling is impractical due to the cost and necessary training, amongst other things...

 

[straitman]

Have a look at this CH53 air to air refuelling :!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO0sRWCf9k4

You would not want this to happen half way across the ocean :!:

 

[flychrisfly]

Hypersonic...you must have been believing Airbus media spin. In 2050...I expect they'll be flying the A320, 330, 350, 380 and variants thereof. They'll have a new poster out for the 2070 model...

I think this link is what simongr was referring to, and I read something similar in the Daily Terror this morning. If anything it keeps up the chatter about the Airbus brand.

 

[harvyk]

Have a look at this CH53 air to air refuelling :!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO0sRWCf9k4

You would not want this to happen half way across the ocean :!:

I guess the question is how fatal is such a thing for heli's?


I've got a small model heli with twin rotors which have hit together a couple of times (usually a change of wind pushes the top rotor down, and the bottom rotor up) and the thing just falls from the sky when the rotors break , although the rotors on the model are just plastic, but still...

 

[awilcockson]

I guess the question is how fatal is such a thing for heli's?

Luckily in this case it appears the rotor blades were much stronger than the refueling probe. They cut through it like a hot knife through butter.

 

[NM]

Luckily in this case it appears the rotor blades were much stronger than the refueling probe. They cut through it like a hot knife through butter.

And luckily it appears to be over land and not a long ferry flight over water, so I assume they still had sufficient fuel remaining to get them to the crash location (helicopters don't land, they just come to the ground in a semi-controlled crash .

Bill, any further thoughts on the reality of in-flight refueling in a helicopter?

 

[medhead]

And luckily it appears to be over land and not a long ferry flight over water, so I assume they still had sufficient fuel remaining to get them to the crash location (helicopters don't land, they just come to the ground in a semi-controlled crash .

I was wondering if it was training/routine or a real mission. There goes the mission if it was something important.

 

[harvyk]

Back onto airline questions, how often do you fly with the same flight crew? (Flight deck crew and \ or cabin crew)

and as a follow on talking more short haul domestic, how likely is it that the same flight crew operate the same flights together on any given day... say the pilot starts their day in BNE, does a flight to SYD, another one to CBR and another one to MEL, what's the likelyhood of having the same co-pilot \ CSM and cabin crew on more than one flight?

 

[jb747]

Back onto airline questions, how often do you fly with the same flight crew? (Flight deck crew and \ or cabin crew)and as a follow on talking more short haul domestic, how likely is it that the same flight crew operate the same flights together on any given day... say the pilot starts their day in BNE, does a flight to SYD, another one to CBR and another one to MEL, what's the likelyhood of having the same co-pilot \ CSM and cabin crew on more than one flight?

I guess that is going to differ across airlines. We rarely see the same cabin crew twice. Captains and FOs are rostered together for the duration of a trip, which could range from anything from one sector to London and back. SO's tend to drop in and out of crews. It's quite common to fly with somebody, and never see them again.

 

[Major]

I guess that is going to differ across airlines. We rarely see the same cabin crew twice. Captains and FOs are rostered together for the duration of a trip, which could range from anything from one sector to London and back. SO's tend to drop in and out of crews. It's quite common to fly with somebody, and never see them again.

I suppose I should then ask approx how many pilots does QF have internationally ?

 

[harvyk]

When flying internationally, do you need to obtain security identification cards from the countries which you fly to (eg to access restricted parts of airports)? Or does your ASIC work as an ID card OS as well?

Is there any special restrictions which you need to go through or observe when at an OS airport which you don't have to worry about here?

 

[Mrmaxwell]

Thanks JB for this thread....great reading!!!

Now...do you watch Air Crash Investigation and try to guess the cause of incident before the end like I do?

 

[harvyk]

Thanks JB for this thread....great reading!!!

Now...do you watch Air Crash Investigation and try to guess the cause of incident before the end like I do?

I know I do, and I usually get it right as well...
Of course from the beginning of the show you already know how it's going to end and they tell draw you attention to the important details during the reenactment...

It would have been handy in the real crashes if a narrator all of a sudden came on in the coughpit and said "by opening the cross feed value the plane was now draining fuel into the leaking tank" leaving the pilots with no doubt of what they should have done instead...

 

[jb747]

When flying internationally, do you need to obtain security identification cards from the countries which you fly to (eg to access restricted parts of airports)? Or does your ASIC work as an ID card OS as well?Is there any special restrictions which you need to go through or observe when at an OS airport which you don't have to worry about here?

I think it's probably best if we don't discuss security cards. These days, there isn't much difference across the countries I visit.

 

[jb747]

I know I do, and I usually get it right as well...Of course from the beginning of the show you already know how it's going to end and they tell draw you attention to the important details during the reenactment...It would have been handy in the real crashes if a narrator all of a sudden came on in the coughpit and said "by opening the cross feed value the plane was now draining fuel into the leaking tank" leaving the pilots with no doubt of what they should have done instead...

Well, they're pretty appalling as far as 'documentaries' go. If I'm interested in an event, I can normally find an actual report...rather than a tv version of it. It's amazing how you can change perceptions by leaving out small facts. I expect most pilots would consider the main aim in relation to this show...is not to feature in it.

 

[ejb]

.... I expect most pilots would consider the main aim in relation to this show...is not to feature in it.

Thanks for the thread JB, very good reading.

The above quote had me almost dropping my coffee on the keyboard.

ejb

 

[farmer]

JB,
On long flights,ie. Sydney LA/DFW, are there extra senior pilots on board , so that pilot in command can take a rest!

Also with the Air France 477 crash, is it possible that a contributing factor was the time it took for the captain to return to the coughpit?

Farmer

 

[jb747]

On long flights,ie. Sydney LA/DFW, are there extra senior pilots on board , so that pilot in command can take a rest!

Different airlines (and regulatory authorities) have different ways of handling this. Many carry multiple captains. Others use SOs (aka cruise FOs), and the 'real' FO will also have a command endorsement, so the he can be left in charge whilst the captain has a sleep.

Also with the Air France 477 crash, is it possible that a contributing factor was the time it took for the captain to return to the coughpit?

Perhaps, although from what I can gather, even after the captain got back on to the flight deck, the correct recovery controls still were not applied. Trouble is, that at this stage all of the information is both patchy, and full of b/s. We need to see more from the BEA.

There are a couple of things I wonder about, but quite honestly they are just my musings, and as likely to be as wrong as anything else. Firstly, I wonder why the aircraft was pitched up so dramatically at the start of the event (which led to the loss of airspeed). I wonder just how the control laws behaved, when they recognised the abnormal attitude. There is an 'abnormal attitude law', which is basically direct law. Did the aircraft go into that law, and if so, what was the behaviour of the trimmable tailplane? Is direct law annunciated in this case? Did the fact that the control inputs made by any pilot are not fed back to the other have a part to play? Apparently, at one point there was a dual control input, but in a nose up direction. That makes no sense..so why?