Ask The Pilot

  • Thread starter Thread starter NM
  • Start date Start date
  • Featured
I have a question about domestic 'add ons' to international flights from a crewing perspective. For example QF8 obviously gets a fresh crew for the BNE-SYD sector... would that duty be all you have to do that day or would there be other duties following the short domestic hop?

Not really. There isn't anything they could realistically do. But, in theory yes, and it was often the case with the 767 when it was flicking from one to the other. NZ flights were often part of this sort of thing. Without having looked at a the Dallas roster, I expect the flights are done by the crew who flew the Dallas - Brisbane leg the previous day.

Also for positioning flights (eg BNE-SYD for the 747s every now and again) does there need to be any cabin crew onboard?

No. Domestically ferry flights are normally done without any cabin crew. Longer flights may have one or two.
 
Last edited:
Would you ever get the case where the plane has been overfilled with fuel? Say a plane has been fueled to get to LAX and then it is swapped to fly to Singapore. Does that ever happen? If so would they empty the excess fuel? Or just fly with the extra fuel and just recalculate everything to take that into account?

In January this year I was on a DJ flight flying on a 737 SYD-CNS that had 2t of excess fuel/was 2t overweight, DJ spent 30-45min trying to find a fuel pump and apparently SYD airport doesn't have one... They ended up taking IIRC 14 passengers and their bags off the flight (8 being carry on only passengers). In total was a 1.5-2 hour delay. Not sure why or how the plane ended up with 2t of extra fuel, flight wasn't completely full, maybe had like 5 spare seats in Y. (I think the Captain mentioned something about reduced thrust levels but can't remember exactly)
 
In January this year I was on a DJ flight flying on a 737 SYD-CNS that had 2t of excess fuel/was 2t overweight, DJ spent 30-45min trying to find a fuel pump and apparently SYD airport doesn't have one... They ended up taking IIRC 14 passengers and their bags off the flight (8 being carry on only passengers). In total was a 1.5-2 hour delay. Not sure why or how the plane ended up with 2t of extra fuel, flight wasn't completely full, maybe had like 5 spare seats in Y. (I think the Captain mentioned something about reduced thrust levels but can't remember exactly)

Defuelling doesn't happen very often. I've never been had to do it, but I'm told that it's a much slower exercise than putting the fuel on. Most overfuels are quite small amounts, and in large aircraft a few hundred kilos can be 'off loaded' by the simple expedient of burning it. That's not really going to work when talking 2 tonnes and a 737. The 380 would go through that in about 40 minutes with all engines at idle and APU running.

On any planned operation at max take off weight, the loading has to be very carefully stopped at the right level, and you then need to ensure that you do burn the planned taxi fuel before take off. MTOW is limiting at the START of the take off run.

Most overfuels that I've heard of haven't really been overfuelling at all, but rather a change in the tasking of the aircraft after a fuel order has been loaded. Suddenly changing an aircraft that was doing a 4 hour sector, to a 2 hour sector will often cause issues.

Remember too, that the crew are considering not just the MTOW, but the max landing weight as well (WLW). That often places a maximum on the take off weight which is well below any performance limits (MTOW cannot exceed planned burn plus MLW). The combination of MTOW and MLW with weather holding requirements (which increases the amount of fuel you need on board at the end of the flight) complicates things further.

I don't understand the comment about reduced thrust levels. That should not be relevant to any weight decisions...you use whatever level of 'reduced' thrust you NEED for the weight offered. Performance weight limits could come into play if the aircraft were being forced to use the shorter runway in Sydney for reasons of runway works, or any other non wind related reason. If you have to use the short runway because of crosswind on the main, then that wind itself tends to give back much of the performance lost by changing runways, but if it's a very strong, but gusty wind, then that may impose a performance limit.

In any case, the fact that they were prepared to remove the fuel indicates that they didn't need it, so I'd expect it was either an incorrect fuel order that was loaded, or an aircraft change.
 
Last edited:
2T of Fuel on a 737 type craft how long would it take to burn that or would that be like a short sector like BNE-SYD or something like that in duration of flight.
 
2T of Fuel on a 737 type craft how long would it take to burn that or would that be like a short sector like BNE-SYD or something like that in duration of flight.

At a guess I'd say it's about 50 minutes cruise fuel for a 737.

Or about 9 minutes for the 380.....
 
Can I ask a question somewhat related to the extra fuel issue, please?

Before starting the take-off 'run', is there a calculation made that the aircraft must be going X speed and/or at Y point in the runway, else the take-off can be safely aborted? (And I would say 'safely' to include an over-run but not at catastrophic speed. I know its a bit subjective.) I would think that it would be before rotation.

Put another way, if the aircraft is somehow over-weight or under-powered without the crew being aware of it (and I'm not sure how likely or possible that is), can the crew discover the problem during acceleration before the point that something very bad is bound to happen?
 
At a guess I'd say it's about 50 minutes cruise fuel for a 737.

Wow... that's almost the entire cruise for a BNE/SYD sector (wheels up to touch down time is usually about 65 minutes or so (if I recall correctly)). :shocked:

I'm sure I've said it before, but it's actually pretty hard to explain to some people why you don't usually fly a plane with the fuel tanks filled the the brim (cf. unlike your car). Somehow the concept of actually having to burn fuel to carry the extra weight of that fuel is not so easy to comprehend.
 
Ask The Pilot

I'm sure I've said it before, but it's actually pretty hard to explain to some people why you don't usually fly a plane with the fuel tanks filled the the brim (cf. unlike your car). Somehow the concept of actually having to burn fuel to carry the extra weight of that fuel is not so easy to comprehend.

Ask them what sort of fuel consumption they'd expect if you attached a trailer with 2 tonnes of unleaded in it to the back of their car. :)
 
Wow... that's almost the entire cruise for a BNE/SYD sector (wheels up to touch down time is usually about 65 minutes or so (if I recall correctly)). :shocked:.

Thats actually 2x the cruise for BNE-SYD, normally its circa 25 mins, 10-15 climb and 20-23 descent.
 
G'day JB.


What are the worst wind conditions you've flown into, in terms of speed, that you've been unable to navigate around? Conversely, what's the strongest tail wind you've had behind you?


This question springs to mind as I flew from Vegas to Newark a few years ago - the tailwind was incredible - I think we were flying up near the 1000km/h mark. The captain continually jumped onto the PA to advise how excited he was - and that he'd never experienced conditions like this. I think we actually landed in Jersey almost an hour ahead of schedule. You ever experienced anything like that?
 
Can I ask a question somewhat related to the extra fuel issue, please?

Before starting the take-off 'run', is there a calculation made that the aircraft must be going X speed and/or at Y point in the runway, else the take-off can be safely aborted? (And I would say 'safely' to include an over-run but not at catastrophic speed. I know its a bit subjective.) I would think that it would be before rotation.

Put another way, if the aircraft is somehow over-weight or under-powered without the crew being aware of it (and I'm not sure how likely or possible that is), can the crew discover the problem during acceleration before the point that something very bad is bound to happen?

A very valid question...to which the answer is no, we don't do an acceleration check. Probably a number of reasons, not the least of which is that civilian runways don't have distance to run marker boards (though the military do).

Such a check would probably mean that the Singair tail scrape in Auckland, Emirates in Melbourne, and Air Florida in Washington might have been avoided.

It checks against a number of things. Overloading. Incorrect take off calculations. Incorrect power settings. It would need to be calculated for every take off. You don't get a feel for things when the numbers vary as much as they do.
 
Apologies if this has been covered previously.

Talking about fuel weight makes me wonder about how the weight of passengers is calculated or allowed for? Checked baggage is presumably simple as each piece goes over the scales and presumably that is electronically integrated into the flight information.

But what about the seemingly ever-increasing unit-size mass of flesh? 400 pax x 75 kg is 30 tonnes :shock:.
 
Read our AFF credit card guides and start earning more points now.

AFF Supporters can remove this and all advertisements

Hi JB,

I believe your on standby over DEC-JAN.

Any confirmed roster spots in the next week? I'm flying QF9 SIN-LON on the 21st of December.
 
Apologies if this has been covered previously.

Talking about fuel weight makes me wonder about how the weight of passengers is calculated or allowed for? Checked baggage is presumably simple as each piece goes over the scales and presumably that is electronically integrated into the flight information.

But what about the seemingly ever-increasing unit-size mass of flesh? 400 pax x 75 kg is 30 tonnes :shock:.

At the smaller end of the scale (!) where we are making a last minute adjustment for a passenger or two, we simply use 100 kg per passenger. I understand that the actual loading people use weights that might more accurately reflect the nationality of the passengers.
 
Hi JB,

I believe your on standby over DEC-JAN.

Any confirmed roster spots in the next week? I'm flying QF9 SIN-LON on the 21st of December.

I've only got one sector at the moment, the 2 out of Singapore on the 8th. Most likely I'll pick up something else around Xmas or New Year.
 
Does that mean you pax to Sin? How far in advance do they pax you?

As close to the time I'm needed as legally possible. At this stage 20 hours prior.

Normally route checks are done on one of your own trips, so they'd just plan it for the first or last sector of a London trip, and the checker would go up with one crew and back with another. Sadly that doesn't always work out, so you end up paxing somewhere.

The 380 doesn't offer many choices for them to plan these things, and they have a narrow time window in which they have to be done. Most are done between Oz and HK, or Oz and Singapore. Mostly they're done on much shorter sectors, but the 380 doesn't offer any of those, so you end up with a somewhat inefficient system...but one for which there's no real alternative.
 
Last edited:
This might be a really silly question, but here goes: I understand that a pilot is paid by the 'flight hour', have you ever heard of someone making a flight take longer than it should for the extra cash? Or is the difference not enough to make it worth while?
 
Ask The Pilot

What are the grooves in the concrete on the runway, at the start point where the plane lines up for take off?

There are groves in the surface about 100mm apart!


Sent from AFF Mobile Edition
 

Become an AFF member!

Join Australian Frequent Flyer (AFF) for free and unlock insider tips, exclusive deals, and global meetups with 65,000+ frequent flyers.

AFF members can also access our Frequent Flyer Training courses, and upgrade to Fast-track your way to expert traveller status and unlock even more exclusive discounts!

AFF forum abbreviations

Wondering about Y, J or any of the other abbreviations used on our forum?

Check out our guide to common AFF acronyms & abbreviations.

Staff online

Back
Top