Ask The Pilot

[ColinP]

I'll wait for the pilot to answer

I presume you're referring to jb747. Unless I'm mistaken, Straitman is also a pilot.

Although Jb747 is answering most of the questions, for which I'm sure we are all most grateful and is without doubt the most senior pilot on this thread, the OP states:

We have several qualified pilots amongst the AFF membership and this is an opportunity to ask questions related to flying experiences, flying activities, how aircraft work, or anything relating to the life of a pilot

 

[777]

Hi JB,

I have two questions, just little mysteries that i've never been clear on...

1. I once flew a DJ flight (i think between BNE-MEL) where the Cabin supervisor announced that we were being flown by "First officer xx_XX" and joining him in the cabin was "First officer YYYY". I'm curious about whether there is any scenario where there might be two first officers at the helm rather than a Captain and a FO? I figure it could have been some kind of training check or, more likely, that the person doing the announcement simply misread the sheet (or someone else mistyped it) but i'm curious to know if there's a reason why or two FO's might be crewing the same flight?

2. Crew meals. I remember reading somewhere years ago that as a safety precaution that the two pilots didn't have the same meal in case of food poisoning. I flew from OOL-MEL a few months back and while waiting to board, i saw two pilots (not of the airline i was flying on) chow down on what appeared to be the same or much the same meal from one of the fast food outlets in the airport. Is there actually a rule that says that the two pilots dont eat the same meal before a flight or does it only apply in some circumstances (eg. longhaul, or with seafood/ shellfish/ etc) or is it simply an urban myth or something that was done away with years ago?

 

[Mwenenzi]

I presume you're referring to jb747. Unless I'm mistaken, Straitman is also a pilot.

Although Jb747 is answering most of the questions, for which I'm sure we are all most grateful and is without doubt the most senior pilot on this thread, the OP states:

Hmm :!: You have obviosuly not met Straitman . He was in his old avatar
Seems to be several ex Air Force pilots, ATC and others employed (or formely worked) the aviation industry on the forum

 

[Sprucegoose]

JB - Hope you enjoyed your break in the wilderness.

Can pilots get life insurance policies?

Not limited to pilots. I had cover costs increased dramatically when I was working and flying in Africa.

All based on a risk assessment, actuararily.

 

[harvyk]

Hi JB,

2. Crew meals. I remember reading somewhere years ago that as a safety precaution that the two pilots didn't have the same meal in case of food poisoning. I flew from OOL-MEL a few months back and while waiting to board, i saw two pilots (not of the airline i was flying on) chow down on what appeared to be the same or much the same meal from one of the fast food outlets in the airport. Is there actually a rule that says that the two pilots dont eat the same meal before a flight or does it only apply in some circumstances (eg. longhaul, or with seafood/ shellfish/ etc) or is it simply an urban myth or something that was done away with years ago?

What was to say the two pilots hadn't just come off shift, or where flying on two different aircraft?

 

[777]

What was to say the two pilots hadn't just come off shift, or where flying on two different aircraft?

Nothing. Which is partially why i asked the pilot if there is a rule against it or not. You're meant to ask questions in this section not know the answers in advance, right?

FWIW i assumed at the time that they were taking over an inbound flight but i don't recall actually seeing them do that so they may not have.

 

[serfty]

Hmm :!: You have obviosuly not met Straitman . He was in his old avatar

Maybe we need a new Playground thread.... When was your first flight ?

Good Idea, not Playground, but open discussion. Posts have been moved to a thread of thier own, see here:

http://www.australianfrequentflyer..../when-your-first-piloting-activity-32231.html
​

 

[drewbles]

What was to say the two pilots hadn't just come off shift, or where flying on two different aircraft?

"What did we have on offer for dinner?"
'Well we had Chicken or Fish'
"Ahh yes. I remember. I had Lasagne"

(sorry couldn't resist; Airplane! is one of my all-time favourite movies, and the above is probably slightly incorrect but it's roughly right).

 

[jb747]

Back from the bush. If you haven't been to NT, make sure you add it to your bucket list. I just love the place.

1. I once flew a DJ flight (i think between BNE-MEL) where the Cabin supervisor announced that we were being flown by "First officer xx_XX" and joining him in the cabin was "First officer YYYY". I'm curious about whether there is any scenario where there might be two first officers at the helm rather than a Captain and a FO? I figure it could have been some kind of training check or, more likely, that the person doing the announcement simply misread the sheet (or someone else mistyped it) but i'm curious to know if there's a reason why or two FO's might be crewing the same flight?

No... a flight will always have a captain. The closest I can think of is a final command check, where you'll have the check captain, the trainee (who is hopefully on his last trip with 3 bars), and a first officer. But, whilst the trainee will operate the flight as if the captain were not there, legally, he is not in charge.

2. Crew meals. I remember reading somewhere years ago that as a safety precaution that the two pilots didn't have the same meal in case of food poisoning. I flew from OOL-MEL a few months back and while waiting to board, i saw two pilots (not of the airline i was flying on) chow down on what appeared to be the same or much the same meal from one of the fast food outlets in the airport. Is there actually a rule that says that the two pilots don't eat the same meal before a flight or does it only apply in some circumstances (eg. longhaul, or with seafood/ shellfish/ etc) or is it simply an urban myth or something that was done away with years ago?

Food poisoning takes quite some time to become evident. It wouldn't matter what you had in Cooly...it would not become evident in the couple of hours to Melbourne. But...it's also not a hardwired rule. Places that have very high food turnover (i.e. the local Macca's) are most likely less of a problem than the onboard food.

 

[jb747]

Life insurance...I expect that many will consider it to be a risky occupation, though in reality it most likely has vastly less risk than any job that involves a daily drive to work. In any event, in my case, the insurance comes via the superannuation system.

 

[harvyk]

​

Back from the bush. If you haven't been to NT, make sure you add it to your bucket list. I just love the place.

agree 100%... Been up there a couple of times inc a drive from CBR to DRW (although flying back, my one experience with AN) staying in tents along the way and loved each time.

Back on topic How oftan do you meet a "desktop pilot" who does seem to have a realistic idea of aircraft systems / procedures / ATC etc, or are the "as real as it gets" games just that, a game with little bearing on reality?

 

[Sifor]

*puts flame suit on*

 

[777]

Food poisoning takes quite some time to become evident. It wouldn't matter what you had in Cooly...it would not become evident in the couple of hours to Melbourne. But...it's also not a hardwired rule. Places that have very high food turnover (i.e. the local Macca's) are most likely less of a problem than the onboard food.

I was flying from OOL-MEL i am not sure where they were flying!

Thanks for the answers - i appreciate it. Meanwhile i'm just about to hop a flight to DRW ... but probably won't leave DRW.

 

[harvyk]

*puts flame suit on*

Don't ge too worried Sifor, whilst I was thinking of you when I posted this I am also in the same boat (plane?) in that until recently before every flight I did in real life I did it in fsx first.

 

[straitman]

Hmm :!: You have obviosuly not met Straitman . He was in his old avatar
Seems to be several ex Air Force pilots, ATC and others employed (or formely worked) the aviation industry on the forum

.... and I know when, where and how jb747 was trained :!:

 

[jb747]

Back on topic How oftan do you meet a "desktop pilot" who does seem to have a realistic idea of aircraft systems / procedures / ATC etc, or are the "as real as it gets" games just that, a game with little bearing on reality?

I have a friend who is a very enthusiastic flight sim pilot. Knows all sorts of details that I don't. I got him a ride in the 744 sim last year. Basically, he did better than I expected, but way worse than he thought he would.

I appreciate the amount of effort that some people put into the flight sims, but, at the end of the day, they are only games. So, I've never met any desktop pilot with a reasonable idea of things...although I've met a lot who think they do.

 

[anat0l]

I have a friend who is a very enthusiastic flight sim pilot. Knows all sorts of details that I don't. I got him a ride in the 744 sim last year. Basically, he did better than I expected, but way worse than he thought he would.

I appreciate the amount of effort that some people put into the flight sims, but, at the end of the day, they are only games. So, I've never met any desktop pilot with a reasonable idea of things...although I've met a lot who think they do.

It may have been discussed perviously, but could you share a few of the key things that your flight sim mate got wrong / missed out on when facing the real sim?

Also, did the fact that flight sims are insufficient show itself more clearly when he was tested in the real sim in problem / irregular scenarios vs. moderately "regular" / "normal" flying? Or was he consistently worse in all respects of simulating real world flight?



----------
This anat0l content, if it must be known,
Was sent via Aust Freq Fly app, but not from an iPhone.

 

[Flying Fox]

Another question for the pilots...

A story from memory but if I remember correctly; earlier this year there was a QF 737 flying ADL - MEL and it had a problem with its landing gear (unable to retract). Soon after take-off the flight return to ADL to fix the problem, passengers delayed etc etc.

Would it have been a big issue for the 737 to fly to MEL with gear down and then see repairs upon arrival?

Thanks for your responses!

 

[jb747]

It may have been discussed perviously, but could you share a few of the key things that your flight sim mate got wrong / missed out on when facing the real sim?

A year ago in the sim...I mostly dump what happened as I go through the door.

Also, did the fact that flight sims are insufficient show itself more clearly when he was tested in the real sim in problem / irregular scenarios vs. moderately "regular" / "normal" flying? Or was he consistently worse in all respects of simulating real world flight?

No scan. No feel. No appreciation of inertia. Overcontrolling. All things that I expected.

There are three levels to this. Flight sim...then the simulator...and then the real world. All are quite different.



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This anat0l content, if it must be known,
Was sent via Aust Freq Fly app, but not from an iPhone.[/QUOTE]

 

[jb747]

A story from memory but if I remember correctly; earlier this year there was a QF 737 flying ADL - MEL and it had a problem with its landing gear (unable to retract). Soon after take-off the flight return to ADL to fix the problem, passengers delayed etc etc.

Would it have been a big issue for the 737 to fly to MEL with gear down and then see repairs upon arrival?

I don't recall any event involving a 737 this year, but there was a 767 that had gear issue towards the end of 2008. In that particular instance, I think the issue was that the hydraulic jack on one of the nose gear doors had come adrift, and the door was basically flapping in the breeze. It was talked up by the media at the tiime, but really fell into the non event category.

In a Boeing, assuming you have all of the hydraulics working properly, about the only reason I can think of for all of the gear not retracting would be that the gear pins are still inserted....which means you did a pretty poor preflight. Individual wheels, or doors, can be affected by lots of issues. Remember that we consider the doors not closing properly to be the same as the gear not retracting...it imposes the same limits. In an Airbus, because the gear handle is simply an electrical switch, with no mechanical connection to the gear system, a complete failure to retract would most likely be something to do with that switch. Of course the gear not retracting is rather less of an issue than the opposite.

Could you continue? Well, yes and no. Certainly, the aircraft can be flow for an extended distance with the gear down. But, the fuel burn will be dramatically higher. You will cruise much lower (about half the normal height), and you will be severely speed limited. All of that adds up to something rather nasty...you'd be unlikely to have enough fuel to be able to complete the trip. If memory serves correctly, somebody tried that in an A310 in Europe, and ended up duplicating the Ghimli glider.