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Hi jb747, any idea what specific training will occur for the retirement flight of the 747 to Illawarra?

I assume familiarisation with the area, runway, but anything else specific to this landing? Rapid shut down of outboard engines to prevent ingestion of material (assuming the runway is narrower than standard?

They'll play with landing on short and narrow runways in the sim. As we've all had a go at landing on various taxiways, I don't think they'll have a big issue that that. There will be specific limits worked out for a required touchdown point, as well as weather limitations. Given the proximity of hills, I guess they'll look at go arounds too. When they went to Longreach, they had a tug positioned to move the aircraft from the runway, so I would not be surprised if they do that here too.

Nice to see the old girl preserved, but rather a pity that a 767 hasn't been kept too.
 
Thanks jb, agree it would have been nice to see a 763er preserved after being such workhorses for QF for so long.
 
What is the Flight Augmentation Computer (FAC)?

What reasons would there be to disable it?

And yes I'm referring to speculation regarding the airasia flight, but I've also never heard of this system before.
 
What is the Flight Augmentation Computer (FAC)?

What reasons would there be to disable it?

And yes I'm referring to speculation regarding the airasia flight, but I've also never heard of this system before.

FACs don't exist on the 380 (or the 330/340 from what I've read elsewhere). Their duties have been subsumed by the various PRIMs and SECs.

They seem quite simple in function, looking after yaw damping/turn co-ordination, and rudder travel limits (which change with IAS). The rudder on the A320 has a hydro mechanical backup, so overall, it does not look too dissimilar to the rudder systems in any non FBW aircraft.

Assuming normal Airbus logic, failure of one of these systems would likely have you turning off the failed system (i.e. matching the switch to its status). Loss of two, I'd expect they'd have you reset them via the switches, one at a time. Pulling circuit breakers (located out of reach), is almost certainly not an AB procedure.

Shutting down both FACs should do very little. The aircraft would drop to alternate law. The autopilot may disengage. It would be perfectly flyable. Automatic trim would still function. It should require nothing other than flying the aircraft.

A bit of reading to keep you amused here: www.smartcockpit.com
 
Thanks so much! That is going to keep me amused for hours! Love it

More media speculation, but what concerned me again in this is this theme that when the aircraft drops out of normal law, some pilots (trying not to generalise) seem to not understand where the limits are. I'm keenly interested in more detail about this crash.

Just a quick other question. The flight was flying "without official authorization". What exactly does that mean? I'm reading conflicting information.
 
Nice to see the old girl preserved, but rather a pity that a 767 hasn't been kept too.

Surely it's not too late? Are there still five parked at the ASP boneyard? It only a short hop from there to Longreach.

Of course Wollongong or even the Australian Aviation Heritage Centre in Darwin would also be options but from an atmospheric perspective, I'm guessing LRE would be best to preserve the airframe.
 
Surely it's not too late? Are there still five parked at the ASP boneyard? It only a short hop from there to Longreach.

Of course Wollongong or even the Australian Aviation Heritage Centre in Darwin would also be options but from an atmospheric perspective, I'm guessing LRE would be best to preserve the airframe.

Finance is obviously the deciding factor. Longreach has a tremendous collection, but from what I've read their resources are stretched in looking after what they have. HARS is an excellent destination...just a pity they aren't located at Nowra, as there is probably more space to expand there. And I'm biased.
 
More media speculation, but what concerned me again in this is this theme that when the aircraft drops out of normal law, some pilots (trying not to generalise) seem to not understand where the limits are. I'm keenly interested in more detail about this crash.

The issue becomes one of questioning the source, experience, and ability, of the 'pilots'. The advent of these very smart electric jets has led to a situation in which the counters of beans believe that dumbing down of the pilot population (aka, paying less) is an acceptable way to go. Airbus has been quite guilty in pushing this as a sales point for the aircraft. So, very low hour FOs are more the norm than the exception. The trouble is that you don't really gain flying experience in these aircraft. You may become knowledgable about the route structure, but they do nothing to improve flying skills. Accidents caused by quite extraordinary pilot responses, totally against basic flying instruction, have happened a number of times recently, and I expect their incidence to increase. AF447, Colgan and Asiana are three obvious ones, but I'm sure there are many others.

When the electric jets lose the plot, and some do so quite readily, they drop their protections, and revert to various forms of alternative laws. Sometimes these modes are very poorly described by the makers (which leads to confusion), but mostly they simply make the aircraft less smart. Ultimately they dumb down to the level of a perfectly normal 737/747/757/767. Trouble is that the pilots (with a very small p) flying these aircraft don't actually know how to fly them without these systems. Operations in many parts of the world are totally autopilot driven (for lots of reason), and in many cases FOs will have little hands on time. The ability to word perfectly remember checklist responses does nothing to improve piloting skills, but that's the way much of the training is done. Very junior pilots (i.e. SOs and cruise FOs) are mostly not even allowed in a window seat below about 20,000 feet. If they haven't learnt to fly already, they're unlikely to once in an airliner.

Note, there are airlines who have FOs who are actually paying them, not the other way around, as they have so little experience that no real airline will hire them.

All around the world, every day, Airbus (and Boeing too I guess) aircraft are successfully flown to an airfield (often the destination, and without the passengers having any inkling) after suffering system failures that lead to loss of protections. It isn't rocket science...it is very basic flying....just like a visual approach, in daylight, to SFO should be.

Just a quick other question. The flight was flying "without official authorization". What exactly does that mean? I'm reading conflicting information.

It sounds as if Air Asia didn't have approval from the Indonesian CASA equivalent to fly the route. Smacks of poor housekeeping on both parts.
 
JB747,

What is a flight hour (for the purposes of a pilot logging his experience)

When you have parked the bus, turned off the headlights, activated the antitheft alarm, are there any company mandated post flight meeting, debriefs before you can go home/hotel?
 
What is a flight hour (for the purposes of a pilot logging his experience)

When you have parked the bus, turned off the headlights, activated the antitheft alarm, are there any company mandated post flight meeting, debriefs before you can go home/hotel?

Flight hours are recorded from brakes release at the gate, until the first door opens.

It takes very little time indeed for us to shut it all down and be on our way. The most time consuming job used to be putting all of the charts away, but now that they are on iPads, you just do the parking checklist, and you can go. A debrief is only required if something went wrong.
 
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JB,

Can airplanes reverse out of gate without tug?

Is there a speed limit for taxiing?. If so can you be pinged for going too fast?

Also whats going to happen to the 767 simulator(s)?
 
Can airplanes reverse out of gate without tug?

I think we might have already covered this. Some aircraft can. Obvious ones like the C17, but also less obvious, like the DC-9 (MD80) series. The big fellas can't. The engines would almost certainly compressor stall, and they produce very little actual reverse thrust anyway.

Is there a speed limit for taxiing?. If so can you be pinged for going too fast?

The manufacturers generally specify 30 knots. Specific parts of an airfield might have lower limits (over the bridge in Singapore) was 20. There is supposedly a man with a radar gun skulking behind the parking lines in Dubai, where the limit is 15 knots. I think he's just a bloke who sleep in his car.

Also whats going to happen to the 767 simulator(s)?

The original -200 sim is in many pieces up at Longreach. It was pretty much stripped before it was sent there, as all of the coughpit items are the real thing, and they were still useful in the aircraft. I don't know what's happening to the other two. One is pretty old, but the other would only date to 2000 or so, so I expect it will be sold.
 
Thx JB,

one last question before I got to mow the lawn.....

Dr Wiki suggests several forms of airspeed. What definition of airspeed do you use or are presented to you in your office?

If distance is measured in miles in your industry why not use mph? or kmh?
 
I guess you must have flown her many times. Do you remember if she had any specific quirks or handled better or worse than any of her colleagues?

Most of the aircraft aren't individually memorable. Sometimes they decide to a pain for a month or two, but it's rare for an aircraft to remain different. Some are different because of configuration (the last 3 767s for instance), and some you remember because of individual events. I recall that OJB had quite heavy elevator loading compared to the others, but A doesn't stand out at all.
 
Thx JB,

one last question before I got to mow the lawn.....

Dr Wiki suggests several forms of airspeed. What definition of airspeed do you use or are presented to you in your office?

Basically we use indicated airspeed, or at least that's how we describe it. In reality though, the air data computers apply some corrections to the measured IAS before showing to us, to that makes it CAS (calibrated air speed). That's what the aircraft needs to fly.

To navigate, you need to use TAS...true air speed.

If distance is measured in miles in your industry why not use mph? or kmh?

To a degree, it doesn't matter what we use...perhaps we could use cubits.

But, a nautical mile is equal to one minute of latitude (i.e. a 60th of a degree), so it has a specific relationship to our spherical projections of the earth. It neatly relates angles and distance..everything else I'd have to convert..
 
Most of the aircraft aren't individually memorable. Sometimes they decide to a pain for a month or two, but it's rare for an aircraft to remain different. Some are different because of configuration (the last 3 767s for instance), and some you remember because of individual events. I recall that OJB had quite heavy elevator loading compared to the others, but A doesn't stand out at all.
Notice anything different flying OQA vs other 380s?
 
The original -200 sim is in many pieces up at Longreach. It was pretty much stripped before it was sent there, as all of the coughpit items are the real thing, and they were still useful in the aircraft. I don't know what's happening to the other two. One is pretty old, but the other would only date to 2000 or so, so I expect it will be sold.

Back in the mid 80s a workmate and I got to visit the Ansett 767 simulator. It used the same hardware and software as our sims. Dirty great glass disks to be loaded for each type of simulation.

Wonder if any of yours were the same.

We were offered a go in the sim if it wasn't being used on the day of our visit. Alas, it was.
 
I don't recall ever seeing any form of disc. There were three sims, all bought at different times, and so quite different generations of the technology. The general consensus was the the 767-200 sim actually simulated a totally different aircraft. The -300s were very good.
 

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