Ask The Pilot

[straitman]

hi jb,
I'm new here and have read a lot of this thread but not all 736 pages so forgive me if this question has already been posed?

I was wondering do various qualifications for airline pilots have to be renewed and if so, how often?
e.g. medical examination and instrument rating
,

thanks

Yes.

Instrument rating is an annual test with other checks and recency requirements. (ILS 35 days, RNAV 90 days etc). An ATPL medical is also annual though at different times and ages there can and often are extra medical requirements.

 

[petercr]

For what it's worth, in some places (it requires some ground equipment), the A380 can do GPS based auto lands.

So the comment in the Fairfax article wouldn't actually require a instructor to talk a novice down? Or does auto-land not take care of the equivalent of the dials and switches for flaps etc?

 

[jb747]

So the comment in the Fairfax article wouldn't actually require a instructor to talk a novice down? Or does auto-land not take care of the equivalent of the dials and switches for flaps etc?

Well, I was somewhat taken back by that comment. Personally I consider a novice would have no chance whatsoever. Auto land does nothing to configure the aircraft, and if not in the correct configuration will eventually give up the plot. But, it's the very first part of the proposal where it all goes wrong. Find the transmit switch (and also work out how to actually listen to the reply). This discussion has come up in the coughpit with cabin crew at times, and on one occasion I offered to let the steward concerned have a good look around, and then (if safe) I'd push his suggested button. The choice...the autopilot disconnect.

The only novices I would give any chance to at all are those flight sim fanatics, who really do have some inclining of what the buttons do. But, again, if they reached anything that caused a manual reversion, that would be the end of the game. I have actually tried this one in the sim, taking a friend for a run in the 744 simulator. I think it's fair to say he did better than I expected, but way worse than he hoped.

 

[Awesom Andy]

But, again, if they reached anything that caused a manual reversion, that would be the end of the game.

After having done a few solo hours in a light aircraft, I went to one of those static flight simulator/game shop with a few friends. It's an A320, and I was offered to do a fully manual landing with a little bit of crosswind. The body count was massive.

 

[opusman]

You'd think in a multi-hundred million dollar plane they could afford to label all the buttons

 

[anat0l]

The only novices I would give any chance to at all are those flight sim fanatics, who really do have some inclining of what the buttons do. But, again, if they reached anything that caused a manual reversion, that would be the end of the game. I have actually tried this one in the sim, taking a friend for a run in the 744 simulator. I think it's fair to say he did better than I expected, but way worse than he hoped.

The flight simmers who think they're all that and "knowledged-up" can go to hell for all I care. This is why I'm glad real, qualified professionals are taking care of the aircraft and hitherto the well-being of all on board.

You'd think in a multi-hundred million dollar plane they could afford to label all the buttons

They mostly are labelled... just not all of them. The problem is likely not working out what a button does, but more which buttons to press and where they are (the latter one a critical reality when an action is required within seconds, not minutes).

 

[Mundi]

and on one occasion I offered to let the steward concerned have a good look around, and then (if safe) I'd push his suggested button. The choice...the autopilot disconnect.

Reminds me of AFL593 and a captains son.

 

[jb747]

Reminds me of AFL593 and a captains son.

Given that there was a pilot in the other seat, that event should not have evolved into anything....

The report is an interesting read, and again makes me wonder about some of the decisions that the aircraft makers (in particular Airbus) come up with. The autopilot in those aircraft could be disengaged simply by moving the controls, but it would not disengage totally, only in the plane in which the controls were moved. Move it in pitch, the roll channel would stay engaged. Move it in roll, the pitch channel would still be in. From what I recall, this partial disengagement was not accompanied by any warnings either. In a Boeing of the same era, the autopilot would fight you (it required a LOT of force), and if you didn't get tired first, it would eventually totally disengage, with all of the warnings.

This AB disengagement behaviour meant that pilots learnt (whether it was procedure or not, I don't know) that they could take the aircraft off the autopilot simply by making whatever input they wanted, without pressing the disengage button. All well and good...but, the behaviour was not consistent, in that there was one occasion in which the autopilot would not disengage, and would fight you for control. Look up the A300 accidents at Nagoya and Taipei.

 

[jb747]

They mostly are labelled... just not all of them. The problem is likely not working out what a button does, but more which buttons to press and where they are (the latter one a critical reality when an action is required within seconds, not minutes).

Some of the labelling brings cryptic to a new level.

 

[mjt57]

I have actually tried this one in the sim, taking a friend for a run in the 744 simulator.

If you need any new friends, I'm sure that I'm up to the task...

What an opportunity to get a go in that sim.

Was the dynamics (movement) enabled?

When I did the Flight Experience sim (B737-800) it was a static model. But still an excellent setup. Still, I would have loved to have a go in a full blown one. Sadly I missed a chance in Ansett's B767 sim back in '85 when we visited there. Darned pilots were selfishly hogging it to themselves...

 

[jb747]

If you need any new friends, I'm sure that I'm up to the task...

What an opportunity to get a go in that sim.

Was the dynamics (movement) enabled?

When I did the Flight Experience sim (B737-800) it was a static model. But still an excellent setup. Still, I would have loved to have a go in a full blown one. Sadly I missed a chance in Ansett's B767 sim back in '85 when we visited there. Darned pilots were selfishly hogging it to themselves...

It was a couple of hours, with full motion, and a sim instructor as well. I was in favour for a while back then....

My mate actually had the choice of the 744 or the 380.

 

[Captain Halliday]

Still, I would have loved to have a go in a full blown one.

You still can mjt57:
Qantas Flight Simulator Experience Sydney

I was in favour for a while back then....

How quickly people forget.

 

[LuxInterior]

Straitman and/or jb747,
Over the years did you ever come across a fellow, mainly at Moorabbin, named John Lindsay?

 

[mjt57]

You still can mjt57:
Qantas Flight Simulator Experience Sydney

Ah, they've opened it up. Originally, it was only available to QF frequent fliers with twenty billion miles...

Now to convince SWMBO that $1,500 plus a night in Sydney is worth it...

 

[harvyk]

Well, I was somewhat taken back by that comment. Personally I consider a novice would have no chance whatsoever. Auto land does nothing to configure the aircraft, and if not in the correct configuration will eventually give up the plot. But, it's the very first part of the proposal where it all goes wrong. Find the transmit switch (and also work out how to actually listen to the reply). This discussion has come up in the coughpit with cabin crew at times, and on one occasion I offered to let the steward concerned have a good look around, and then (if safe) I'd push his suggested button. The choice...the autopilot disconnect.

I hope the real pilots don't mind me responding.
I've built a 747 coughpit at home (yes, a very geeky but fun hobby to have).
I've probably shown it to 50 people over the last few years. I've asked every one whom have come into the home coughpit which one was the radio button (thinking back to JB's question), and without fail every single person has selected the autopilot disconnect button.

Furthermore, not only have I got the sim sitting at home, and I've sat in many actual 747 coughpits, but even then I'd probably be more inclined to go for something really alcoholic than go to the coughpit if ever the call of "can anyone fly a plane" come over the PA.

 

[mjt57]

For those who may be interested and who have Foxtel on BBC Knowledge there is a show called 24/7.

It's a behind-the-scenes of the daily operations of London Heathrow.

JB was supposed have been on it, but the producers decided otherwise after his interviews, which is a pity (they got some toff from BA on instead).

Episode 1 is on presently, but it may be repeated. I've series linked it.

 

[straitman]

Straitman and/or jb747,
Over the years did you ever come across a fellow, mainly at Moorabbin, named John Lindsay?

I flew with John Lindsay a few times in a CT4A in (probably) 1977. He did my civil instructor ratings several times and even signed me up to instruct on the Tiger Moth.

 

[por930]

I flew with John Lindsay a few times in a CT4A in (probably) 1977. He did my civil instructor ratings several times and even signed me up to instruct on the Tiger Moth.

Bill, Was the CT4A the RAAF on steroi_s version of the 2 seat Victor Airtourer? I recall many years ago doing my restricted licence test in a Cessna 172 and side slipping the landing in a cross wind. The examiner was horrified and asked if we (4 of us that day for our test) would all do the same. When I said, yes, he suspended testing and took each of us up in the schools Airtourer 115 and demonstrated side slip stalls, then had us do a few...we learnt never to carry out side slip approaches again and perfect the crab approaches. We tried to use the Airtourer 115 for aerobatics, but it was so under powered.

I guess this is why the RAAF used the CT4A..Simple to operate, but with greater power?

Ged

 

[Quickstatus]

For those who may be interested and who have Foxtel on BBC Knowledge there is a show called 24/7.

It's a behind-the-scenes of the daily operations of London Heathrow.

JB was supposed have been on it, but the producers decided otherwise after his interviews, which is a pity (they got some toff from BA on instead).

Episode 1 is on presently, but it may be repeated. I've series linked it.

Actually the show is called "Airport"

 

[Fruitcake]

It's an A320, and I was offered to do a fully manual landing with a little bit of crosswind. The body count was massive.

Should have stuck with it for a few more hours, you might have got it eventually .
[video=youtube;OcrpR1YI1qc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcrpR1YI1qc[/video]