Ask The Pilot

[jb747]

A common computer science assignment that is given. But then throw in sick leave, stand downs, aircraft maintenance issues, etc and you can quickly imagine how it becomes a moving target with a team behind it to manage.

Here's a reference for it....somehow I think it's a little bigger than a uni assignment. Jeppesen Crew Rostering

 

[jb747]

Have you guys ever considered some sort of leave preference roster? Where I work it is used to manage or to balance out who gets first dibs at getting Christmas/New Year off, for example.

Could something like that work within your ranks?

Leave is the simplest part of the system. The company simply needs to decide on when the various 4 and 6 week slots start, with the proviso that it must provide at least the correct number of each so that everyone can take their leave in each cycle. Pilots then bid for them, and they're allocated in seniority order. Done either eight months, or a year, in advance, depending upon the cycle.

Any additional slots are advertised two months prior to a roster build, and awarded or assigned before the build.

 

[jb747]

JB, carrying this thought a bit further..do airline pilots flying hours in their own aircraft, eg, you have a old war bird or what ever and you fly for say 15 hours while on a months leave. Does this count into your max hours per month as well?

Flying hours are flying hours. It does not matter whether you get them as an air force reservist, or in your own aircraft. The airline considers that it owns all of your possible flying per year, and you need to get written permission to do any outside flying. I've never tried, but I expect you'd only be able to get 25-50 hours tops. Given that we bounce off the limits quite regularly, even a single additional outside hour could mean you'd be unable to fly a service as planned.

 

[Boris spatsky]

Have you guys ever considered some sort of leave preference roster? Where I work it is used to manage or to balance out who gets first dibs at getting Christmas/New Year off, for example.

Could something like that work within your ranks?

Yeah we do that for Xmas only. Doubt i will get it in the next 5 years.

 

[Boof1]

Flying hours are flying hours. It does not matter whether you get them as an air force reservist, or in your own aircraft. The airline considers that it owns all of your possible flying per year, and you need to get written permission to do any outside flying. I've never tried, but I expect you'd only be able to get 25-50 hours tops. Given that we bounce off the limits quite regularly, even a single additional outside hour could mean you'd be unable to fly a service as planned.

With respect to your role and knowledge at QF JB, Surely this is incorrect? I understand that would be the case if the question was relating to flying a warbird for commercial reasons or you were running scenics in C206 on your days off.

I thought CAO 48 limitations only apply for commercial operations? So you could theoretically fly everyday in your own 172 or whatever you desire for fun and fly your 900 hours per year for QF.

I recall (but don't have time to find the post) where you said yourself that a few of your colleagues fly for fun but you choose not to.

Would love your take on this, and thanks so much for all the amazing insights and answers in this thread.

Cheers
Boof

 

[Walter_Plinge]

New roster time again....

20/04 93 MEL-LAX
21/04 94 LAX-MEL

01/05 93 MEL-LAX
02/05 94 LAX-MEL

Just missed you...I'm on 93 29/4. Better luck coming back on 96 later in May perhaps.

 

[defurax]

Hi JB,
Have you ever landed the 380 at an airport without taxiway where you need to backtrack on the runway and do a 180 turn to position for takeoff? I was at NOU the other day watching a 737 and A330 backtracking for takeoff and I wondered how difficult or easy it would be for the 380 to position for takeoff.
I have to say that seeing such a big aircraft back tracking on the runway would remind me of a certain foggy day in Tenerife....

 

[Boris spatsky]

With respect to your role and knowledge at QF JB, Surely this is incorrect?

I thought CAO 48 limitations only apply for commercial operations?

CAO 48.0 is explicit. Under Flight Time Limitations - General para 1.3 it states:

'calculations of flight and duty time limitations made under the provisions of section 48.1 shall take into account any flight and duty time performed in the course of private operations.'

Pretty black and white. I have flown outside of work in the last 12 months and it caused so many issues with rostering that i will seldom do it again.

 

[por930]

CAO 48.0 is explicit. Under Flight Time Limitations - General para 1.3 it states:

'calculations of flight and duty time limitations made under the provisions of section 48.1 shall take into account any flight and duty time performed in the course of private operations.'

Pretty black and white. I have flown outside of work in the last 12 months and it caused so many issues with rostering that i will seldom do it again.

Hi Boris, LOL I can imagine your roster guys being very happy that you decided to simply add a few flight hours to "their" monthly cycle, and BAM, the whole roster needs redoing. The effect on many staff would make you think about doing this again. I'm sure your work mates were impressed.

 

[Boris spatsky]

Hi Boris, LOL I can imagine your roster guys being very happy that you decided to simply add a few flight hours to "their" monthly cycle, and BAM, the whole roster needs redoing. The effect on many staff would make you think about doing this again. I'm sure your work mates were impressed.

It wasn't quite like that. I had to get written approval first which was approved - then put all of my expected hours into the next month provisional roster - but of course i was guessing the hours to some extent (it was a decent amount of flying in one week of leave).

As i flew each day i had to ring and get them to put the hours into the work roster, which would then allow them to look at the next few weeks flying. It just became too much of a hassle.

I don't think it affected other staff too much, other than rostering. My work mates didn't know about it - it's not something i thought relevant to bring up in the flightdeck.

 

[Boof1]

CAO 48.0 is explicit. Under Flight Time Limitations - General para 1.3 it states:

'calculations of flight and duty time limitations made under the provisions of section 48.1 shall take into account any flight and duty time performed in the course of private operations.'

Pretty black and white. I have flown outside of work in the last 12 months and it caused so many issues with rostering that i will seldom do it again.

Hi Boris,

Thanks for the reply. You are correct under the old regs no argument there and thanks for your insight into what happened when you did fly outside of work.

The new regs state that recreational private flying is exempt from flight duty calculations (the Instrument 2013 version of CAO 48) and this is backed up in the fatigue management CAAP 48.1 where it's advised that recreational flying should be disclosed only when there is a risk of contribution to fatigue during a duty period, or words to that effect.

I'm certainly not arguing with you, but I'm going to assume that both QF in JB's case and wherever you work, are currently operating under a transitional AOC and therefore the new rules will apply once your employers either take up the new CAO or April 2016 ticks around?

Regardless of if you agree with the changes or not, these new rules matches those of the FAA in the US and explain how a few airline pilots living in farming areas such as Texas commute to work in a 172 for 15 mins, tie it down at the FBO, then fly all day in a 737!

Cheers
Boof

 

[Boris spatsky]

Hi Boris,

Thanks for the reply. You are correct under the old regs no argument there and thanks for your insight into what happened when you did fly outside of work.

The new regs state that recreational private flying is exempt from flight duty calculations (the Instrument 2013 version of CAO 48) and this is backed up in the fatigue management CAAP 48.1 where it's advised that recreational flying should be disclosed only when there is a risk of contribution to fatigue during a duty period, or words to that effect.

I'm certainly not arguing with you, but I'm going to assume that both QF in JB's case and wherever you work, are currently operating under a transitional AOC and therefore the new rules will apply once your employers either take up the new CAO or April 2016 ticks around?

Regardless of if you agree with the changes or not, these new rules matches those of the FAA in the US and explain how a few airline pilots living in farming areas such as Texas commute to work in a 172 for 15 mins, tie it down at the FBO, then fly all day in a 737!

Cheers
Boof

Ahhh that old chestnut. Yes, we are in transition at the moment so old rules still apply.

I would argue in all cases however that private flying should be included in fatigue calculations under any FRMS.

 

[jb747]

Given how I feel right now, if they actually bring in a real fatigue based system, I'll never fly again....

Airlines thought that FRMS was a great idea when it meant you could fly more. I'm not sure they're quite so keen now that it means you might fly less.

 

[defurax]

Hi JB,
Have you ever landed the 380 at an airport without taxiway where you need to backtrack on the runway and do a 180 turn to position for takeoff? I was at NOU the other day watching a 737 and A330 backtracking for takeoff and I wondered how difficult or easy it would be for the 380 to position for takeoff.
I have to say that seeing such a big aircraft back tracking on the runway would remind me of a certain foggy day in Tenerife....

I think I found the answer...they use a tug at NOU to move the 380 on the runway:
QANTAS A380 AT TONTOUTA AIRPORT: http://youtu.be/nSbqQhyiLgs

 

[por930]

It wasn't quite like that. I had to get written approval first which was approved - then put all of my expected hours into the next month provisional roster - but of course i was guessing the hours to some extent (it was a decent amount of flying in one week of leave).

As i flew each day i had to ring and get them to put the hours into the work roster, which would then allow them to look at the next few weeks flying. It just became too much of a hassle.

I don't think it affected other staff too much, other than rostering. My work mates didn't know about it - it's not something i thought relevant to bring up in the flightdeck.

Seems a "good" method with daily ring ins after each days flying, so your planning guys can keep the provisional roster up to date though as you say, a lot of bother which would take the gloss of the private flying.

For me, private flying is not like sitting on the beach or turning the brain off with a good book, or gardening and de-stressing, there is a lot of planning and flight preparation involved, especially if you are a one man crew...it is not with out its stress.

I am more of the view flying is flying, especially for the long haul guys like JB, where time change sleep/eating management becomes an issue as you get older. The domestic guys, while having less time change sleep issues, certainly have the multiple landing and take off legs per day often in very busy airspace.

I also wondered if a professional pilot using private flying hours within the allotted company hours per month, risked losing financially, as his/her employer lost some earning potential.

 

[Boris spatsky]

I also wondered if a professional pilot using private flying hours within the allotted company hours per month, risked losing financially, as his/her employer lost some earning potential.

It made no difference to myself or the company as i did it whilst on leave.

 

[por930]

It made no difference to myself or the company as i did it whilst on leave.

I wondered though with your annual flight hours available for the company now reduced by say 30 hours of private flying if this is an issue to companies or do they simply accept that a minor percentage of their pilots may fly privately, as long as less than say 50 hours per year. I think JB said in one of his posts that his company restricted private flying hours.

Because of the hours per month/year regulated industry you guys work in, I can understand why companies not too chuffed with their pilots making them selves unavailable for x hours per year due to their private flying, as i imagine you are paid for duty hours per year.

 

[Boris spatsky]

We don't get that close to the maximum annual hours allowed under the Regs. But either way, i doubt the company would allow me to do a lot more non-company flying. It's just a hassle for all involved.

 

[Boris spatsky]

When a new plane is ready to be delivered does the manufacturer fly it to the buyer, or does the buyer collect it?

I did a pickup of a new factory corporate aircraft built in the US in 2012 for a private buyer. I went over as their agent for two weeks. Spent a week in the office going through paperwork (Airworthiness, registration, options etc) then two 'test flights' with the seller's chief pilot. We had a few issues so gave the aircraft back whilst they fixed them. I flew back to Oz and went back a few weeks later to do another flight. Had a few issues again (mainly with the HF radio). All in all i spent 4 weeks over there for the one pickup. It is a long and drawn out process (if you do it properly) - a lot of private buyers don't.

 

[straitman]

I'm certainly not arguing with you, but I'm going to assume that both QF in JB's case and wherever you work, are currently operating under a transitional AOC and therefore the new rules will apply once your employers either take up the new CAO or April 2016 ticks around?

Cheers
Boof

Irrespective of this there is nothing to stop the company having a line in their operations manual requiring pilots to make full disclosure of their hours and to even require them to get permission prior to doing any private flying.

For example, it would be inappropriate, for a pilot to not disclose some private hours and then claim fatigue from their job.

Remember CAO48 is written by lawyers and is difficult to understand comprehensively. There is a lot more to it than 100 hrs per month and 900/1000 hrs per year.

At one time we were short of co-pilots and we had the situation where their duty hours on a daily, weekly and monthly basis were a problem as were their flying hours on a daily, weekly, monthly and annual basis. ie when you are near limits CAO48 can be hard to apply.