Ask The Pilot

[lastrow]

How do they weigh an A380?

 

[ChrisGibbs]

A very proud parenting moment last weekend with my 15 year old son doing his first solo circuit at his flying school at Albion Park. He started lessons about 15 months ago and has around 30 hrs in his log book flying a Citabria (tail dragger). He's worked jobs over weekends, holidays, etc to pay for the lessons. His instructor said no matter what he does with his flying he will always remember his first solo. A question for you guys - do you remember your first solo? For those trained in the military do they have such a thing as a first solo?

I was speaking to a Perth based QF A330 captain last evening on a YMML-YSSY flight who was undertaking his type rating from a 737 to the A330. He said that when he gets the chance he jumps into either a Citabria or Decathlon for some good "stick and rudder" flying. What did he mean by "stick and rudder" flying?

 

[eric2011]

How do they weigh an A380?

22 sets of bathroom scales, 1 under each wheel then add all the totals

 

[TheRealTMA]

22 sets of bathroom scales, 1 under each wheel then add all the totals

You'd also better use the universal standard for weight or mass - how many elephants does an A380 weigh?

Edit: 165 elephants apparently, or 6335 (flying) pigs. (Source: http://www.flightcentre.com.au/travel-news/travel-tips/airbus-a380-amazing-facts/)

 

[jb747]

A very proud parenting moment last weekend with my 15 year old son doing his first solo circuit at his flying school at Albion Park. He started lessons about 15 months ago and has around 30 hrs in his log book flying a Citabria (tail dragger). He's worked jobs over weekends, holidays, etc to pay for the lessons. His instructor said no matter what he does with his flying he will always remember his first solo.

Congratulations to your son. He's one up on me, I've never flown a tail dragger.

Some general advice on flying training though. Doing it slowly is the most expensive possible way. It's really to the schools advantage to stretch it out forever. When I did my initial training, I did my licence test at about 35 hours... From start to restricted licence was 3 months exactly. Save up the pennies until he can afford ten or so hours, and do them over a week or two.

A question for you guys - do you remember your first solo? For those trained in the military do they have such a thing as a first solo

I remember most of the firsts. First solo was in a Cherokee at Canberra airport. CT4 at Laverton, and Macchi at Pearce. A4 first solo was also the first time I flew the single seater...first approach resulted in a go around.

The RAAF course is quite condensed, and doesn't work the way civil training does. You had a limited number of hours to go solo (from memory something like - not less than 7, and no more than 10). After that the sequence started, and there was limited time for everything that had to be covered. As an instructor, you weren't doing your student any favours by sending them solo at the minimum time.

I was speaking to a Perth based QF A330 captain last evening on a YMML-YSSY flight who was undertaking his type rating from a 737 to the A330. He said that when he gets the chance he jumps into either a Citabria or Decathlon for some good "stick and rudder" flying. What did he mean by "stick and rudder" flying?

Probably aerobatics. Some do, some don't care. The 'Russian Roulettes' are mostly airline guys.

 

[jb747]

How do they weigh an A380?

I've never seen it done. I understand that it's done after each major maintenance program. Whilst the comments about bathroom scales are tongue in cheek, they aren't far from the truth.

https://blog.klm.com/how-do-you-weigh-a-plane-jesseyknows/

 

[Boris spatsky]

A very proud parenting moment last weekend with my 15 year old son doing his first solo circuit at his flying school at Albion Park. He started lessons about 15 months ago and has around 30 hrs in his log book flying a Citabria (tail dragger). He's worked jobs over weekends, holidays, etc to pay for the lessons. His instructor said no matter what he does with his flying he will always remember his first solo. A question for you guys - do you remember your first solo? For those trained in the military do they have such a thing as a first solo?

I was speaking to a Perth based QF A330 captain last evening on a YMML-YSSY flight who was undertaking his type rating from a 737 to the A330. He said that when he gets the chance he jumps into either a Citabria or Decathlon for some good "stick and rudder" flying. What did he mean by "stick and rudder" flying?

I went solo after 12.0 military CT4 hours. Prior to solo we had completed lessons in effects of controls, climbs, descents, level flight, wingovers and stalls, normal circuits, flapless circuits, glide circuits and engine failure after takeoff (according to my logbook). I remember it well. The instructor said we would do 3 circuits, then he would jump out and i would go for more. After 1 circuit he told me to taxi back in - i thought i had failed. He promptly popped the canopy, jumped out, and said 'off you go'! I remember it being exhilarating and frenetic all at the same time. I got back in one piece, thankfully!

Stick and rudder refers to more pure manual flying that is dynamic, such as aeros or formation, or even manual circuits where there is no autopilot or automation. Colloquially, a pilot with good stick and rudder skills has very good 'hands and feet' - that doesn't necessarily make them a good airline pilot though, and vice versa.

 

[ChrisGibbs]

JB / Boris - thanks for your responses and advice. From the sounds of things the 15 year age minimum (down from 16 years old) on first solo came in a few years back with the 16 year old restriction being maintained for a Restricted Private Pilots License (RPPL). Up until about 6 months back we were "chunking" up his hours to do a week's flying (5 * 1hr lessons) every 3 months. Possibly reflecting is age / maturity / lack of experience we found he was taking at least 2 lessons to get back in the swing of things... He now has just under 12 months to complete his RPPL training then we will see what happens. He has a week of work experience in early August at HMAS Albatross and he's also looking at the RAAF. Either way its up to him and the amount of work he wants to put into his studies and flying. It did take some time for him to understand that learning to fly was, potentially, the start of a job (as opposed to doing something for fun).

 

[Boris spatsky]

JB / Boris - thanks for your responses and advice. From the sounds of things the 15 year age minimum (down from 16 years old) on first solo came in a few years back with the 16 year old restriction being maintained for a Restricted Private Pilots License (RPPL). Up until about 6 months back we were "chunking" up his hours to do a week's flying (5 * 1hr lessons) every 3 months. Possibly reflecting is age / maturity / lack of experience we found he was taking at least 2 lessons to get back in the swing of things... He now has just under 12 months to complete his RPPL training then we will see what happens. He has a week of work experience in early August at HMAS Albatross and he's also looking at the RAAF. Either way its up to him and the amount of work he wants to put into his studies and flying. It did take some time for him to understand that learning to fly was, potentially, the start of a job (as opposed to doing something for fun).

I do agree with JB though - flying proficiency is a currency game; that is, it does take a while to get into it after a break, even for professionals. Chunking the training is beneficial. I had an older friend fail his PPL test at Bankstown as he only flew once every fortnight. Just not enough currency for my liking.

 

[juddles]

... but from what I've heard, the nose gear of an A380 only carries 15 or so tonnes...which probably explains why it is so much more inclined to skidding than the 747.....

That figure may be accurate for a parked A380, but is certainly not true during braking.

 

[jb747]

That figure may be accurate for a parked A380, but is certainly not true during braking.

I'm not normally trying to turn it when applying any real braking!

 

[eric2011]

I've never seen it done. I understand that it's done after each major maintenance program. Whilst the comments about bathroom scales are tongue in cheek, they aren't far from the truth.

https://blog.klm.com/how-do-you-weigh-a-plane-jesseyknows/

I was being tongue in cheek but is how it is done, also used for road transport inspectors and in fact anything else that's heavy and needs weighing. Object only needs to be lifted a couple of inches and placed down on top of the scale.

 

[mushez]

I've never seen it done. I understand that it's done after each major maintenance program. Whilst the comments about bathroom scales are tongue in cheek, they aren't far from the truth.

https://blog.klm.com/how-do-you-weigh-a-plane-jesseyknows/

While getting marginally off topic - I am still surprised with how pedantic they get about weighing everything (which isn't a bad thing) - that we play this game of average persons weight to then calculate take off weights. It just seems crazy - and situations like Arrow Air 1285 are likely to continue to occur.

 

[Simo]

Just wondering with what is happening in Turkey is the flight paths being changed to avoid certain areas or just avoided at all costs or business as usual...

 

[andmiz]

Just wondering with what is happening in Turkey is the flight paths being changed to avoid certain areas or just avoided at all costs or business as usual...

Initially some airlines opted to avoid Turkish airspace for few hours until risk assessments were created and more information came to light. It only took a few hours before overflights recommenced following guidance from ICAO and IATA. The ATC system continued to operate despite all airports closing.

 

[andmiz]

It did take some time for him to understand that learning to fly was, potentially, the start of a job (as opposed to doing something for fun).

ChrisGibbs, congrats to your son and I hope he continues his aviation pursuits. There's loads of good information and advice within https://qf32.aero/2015/08/25/aviation-pathways/ ....one of RdC's better literary pieces IMO...

 

[straitman]

A very proud parenting moment last weekend with my 15 year old son doing his first solo circuit at his flying school at Albion Park.

A question for you guys - do you remember your first solo? For those trained in the military do they have such a thing as a first solo?

Congratulations to your son ChrisGibbs. It's a great feeling.

My first solo was in a Cessna 150 callsign ROT. (How appropriate) and was for ever ago. (About 1967.)

When I did RAAF pilots course we did 15 hrs on the Winjeel then approx 210 on the Macchi. The Winjeel was a scary beast for an 18-19 yo as it was a tail dragger with 450 usable horsepower. The 15 hrs was a flight grading only with no intention of going solo though maybe one or two did so.

By comparison the Macchi was easy to fly though easier (initially) to get into trouble as things happened a lot faster. Unlike the prop aircraft where the instructor jumped out locked his seat belt and sent you off the first solo had to be a little more planned as there was the need to 'make safe' the rear ejection seat.

 

[mjt57]

Congratulations to your son ChrisGibbs. It's a great feeling.

My first solo was in a Cessna 150 callsign ROT. (How appropriate) and was for ever ago. (About 1967.)

What did you end up flying throughout your career?

 

[jb747]

While getting marginally off topic - I am still surprised with how pedantic they get about weighing everything (which isn't a bad thing) - that we play this game of average persons weight to then calculate take off weights. It just seems crazy - and situations like Arrow Air 1285 are likely to continue to occur.

Arrow Air looks like it was an icing event. A bit less weight might have helped, but I expect it just would have moved the accident a bit.

Unless we start weighing everyone, averages are about all we have. Perhaps tickets should be by the loaded kilo! But, like all averages, on average, they average out. Especially with bigger samples (passenger loads).

If everyone was 10kgs over the calculated weight, that would work out to 5,000 kgs. It wouldn't make a great deal of difference to the performance. I doubt that it would even be noticeable. But, on that flight from LA, it would cost you about 3,000 kgs in extra burn, and possibly cause you to divert.

 

[juddles]

JB,

as I looked at seatmaps today (usual habit of those fanatics wanting to get the best experience) I found a question.

With any given aircraft, are all the crew seats occupied? IE does the number of crew seats reflect a necessary minimum (and obviously maximum) amount of cabin crew? I assume that on take off and landing all staff are seated in these. So is it ok to have a crew seat vacant (say on a shorter route) where there would be no cabin staff next to an exit?