Ask The Pilot

[simongr]

Ok - back to flying.

Lack of turbulence on DOM flights.

Having notched up a few more DOM flights over the past three years than I would like I am getting the feeling that we don't get turbulence SYD-MEL-SYD - is there a reason for that? Just to explain on pretty much all of my int'l flights I can expect a minimum of 30 mins turbulence on EVERY flight. On my old SYD-BKH-SYD I could expect some turbulence along the flight but very very rarely do I get any turbulence flying SYD-MEL_SYD.

 

[mosanator]

Thanks for the reply re the centre line. An interesting thing happened as I was watching the video's - my 17 yr old son came in and asked what the vid was, I offered a quick explanation to which he replied -

"that pilot obviously wasn't listening to the announcement to turn off all electronic equipment !" - smarty pants that he is!


And whilst on the topic of teenagers - I flew to Broken Hill this week with REX, the "pilot" waiting at the bottom of the stairs as we boarded didn't look old enough to hold a drivers license never mind a fly a plane.

I know REX has acknowledged they have a pilot shortage but let the boy start shaving first.
He must have been the Dougie Howser of airline pilots!:shock: And I wasn't the only pax to notice. I almost wanted to go around back to see if the "L" plates were attached to the tail.

 

[jb747]

Thanks for the reply re the centre line. An interesting thing happened as I was watching the video's - my 17 yr old son came in and asked what the vid was, I offered a quick explanation to which he replied -

"that pilot obviously wasn't listening to the announcement to turn off all electronic equipment !" - smarty pants that he is!

Dedicated cameras do not have to be turned off. I can't recall when that came in, but a couple of years ago.

And whilst on the topic of teenagers - I flew to Broken Hill this week with REX, the "pilot" waiting at the bottom of the stairs as we boarded didn't look old enough to hold a drivers license never mind a fly a plane.

I know REX has acknowledged they have a pilot shortage but let the boy start shaving first.
He must have been the Dougie Howser of airline pilots!:shock: And I wasn't the only pax to notice. I almost wanted to go around back to see if the "L" plates were attached to the tail.

I once told some passengers that our very pretty, and very young, blond FO was 'work experience'. She wasn't impressed...though the passengers nodded sagely, and seemed to think it ok.

Some of the youngsters are pretty quick off the mark at getting themselves qualified, and flying in the outback. It's surprising how much some 20 year olds have managed to fit in....

 

[Mattg]

And whilst on the topic of teenagers - I flew to Broken Hill this week with REX, the "pilot" waiting at the bottom of the stairs as we boarded didn't look old enough to hold a drivers license never mind a fly a plane.

I know REX has acknowledged they have a pilot shortage but let the boy start shaving first.
He must have been the Dougie Howser of airline pilots!:shock: And I wasn't the only pax to notice. I almost wanted to go around back to see if the "L" plates were attached to the tail.

Just out of curiosity, as an aside, did the "young" pilot fly the plane differently at all to other pilots? I.e was his age the only difference?

 

[jb747]

Lack of turbulence on DOM flights.

Having notched up a few more DOM flights over the past three years than I would like I am getting the feeling that we don't get turbulence SYD-MEL-SYD - is there a reason for that? Just to explain on pretty much all of my int'l flights I can expect a minimum of 30 mins turbulence on EVERY flight. On my old SYD-BKH-SYD I could expect some turbulence along the flight but very very rarely do I get any turbulence flying SYD-MEL_SYD.

Well, if you draw a 4000 mile long line from anywhere to anywhere, you're almost bound to find a few bumps along it somewhere. It's a very rare long haul flight on which you don't spend some time off track, avoiding something or other. Large scale weather systems are very common around the equator, so any flight that crosses the equator, at a shallow angle (within say, 30 degrees of east or west) will be in the equatorial regions for quite a while.

Jetstream/clear air turbulence does tend to be area specific. Jets are common between the east coast of Oz, and Perth. Also between Hawaii and LA/SFO. Whilst it can be smooth within the jet itself, anywhere along the boundary will be rough.

A common way of avoiding turbulence is to climb above it, or to descend below it (NB, storm cells are avoided laterally, not vertically). On a short flight, like Melbourne to Sydney, the fuel penalty for being off optimum level is small, and because the aircraft is light, a large range of levels will be available. So, on that sector, if there are avoidable bumps, you'll be able to do so.

But, on longer flights your options may not be so good. At heavy weights you will have limited ability to climb (and the aircraft optimum level will be around 2000 feet below its max), so there may be some nice smooth air above you, but you can't reach it. Going lower may be an option, but unless the level change is relatively small, the fuel burn penalty may be too great to accept for other than a short period.

Additionally, if there's only a small range of smooth levels, and everyone wants them, then ATC will also be constrained...not all the aircraft will fit.

Winds on the Melbourne Sydney route can be extremely strong, and it's not uncommon for northbound flights to be in the high 30s/low 40s, whilst the southbound are down at FL280.

 

[777]

Just out of curiosity, as an aside, did the "young" pilot fly the plane differently at all to other pilots? I.e was his age the only difference?

Young? Just licensed? His flying skills were fine but he did add half a dozen laps around the centre of town to the route and there were some donuts on the tarmac on landing.

 

[Major]

Looking at AV Herald there are almost daily incidents of bird strikes and regular diversions for unruly passengers. Have you had any bad experiences with these type of incidents ?

What would the worst airport be for possible bird strikes ?

 

[markis10]

Ok - back to flying.

Lack of turbulence on DOM flights.

Having notched up a few more DOM flights over the past three years than I would like I am getting the feeling that we don't get turbulence SYD-MEL-SYD - is there a reason for that? Just to explain on pretty much all of my int'l flights I can expect a minimum of 30 mins turbulence on EVERY flight. On my old SYD-BKH-SYD I could expect some turbulence along the flight but very very rarely do I get any turbulence flying SYD-MEL_SYD.

If I can add to JB747's answer from my perspective as a former SYD-MEL radar controller, I can confirm that you certainly do get turbulence on that sector on a regular basis, the difference is that its reported quickly and alternate levels found, on longer haul operations the "sampling" is less frequent so turbulence may not be known in advance. Over northern Victoria you have thermal activity near Benalla which will often impact the lower levels while the Snowy Mountains also add good conditions for higher altitude turbulence. There is an interesting report from 1955 here which attempts to answer the science behind it as well in terms of clear air turbulence:

http://www.bom.gov.au/amm/docs/1955/garriock1.pdf

 

[jb747]

Looking at AV Herald there are almost daily incidents of bird strikes and regular diversions for unruly passengers. Have you had any bad experiences with these type of incidents ?

What would the worst airport be for possible bird strikes ?

I expect there are plenty of 'worst' airports for birds. Any place that has large flocks of migrating birds, especially Canadian geese, would have to be a problem.

Birdstrikes are common. Mostly they leave a smear of blood on the aircraft, and do no damage whatsoever. I suspect most are discovered by either the ground crew or the pilots doing a preflight...well after the event. I've only had one of any magnitude, and that was in a 767 out of Perth, just on 19 years ago. We hit an entire flock of birds at 1212 feet (the event recorder 'got' it) on departure. We saw the birds, and just as the word was uttered the engine note of the right engine changed, and its vibration jumped from its normal minimal value up to about half way on the scale. So, we pulled that engine back to idle and left it there (treating the rest of the flight as single engined, even though it was still running), and then flew a large circuit and landed again. Turned out four of the fan blades were bent, two of the fan stators missing, a hole was punched though the casing, and one of the flap fairings was missing. The engineers counted at least twelve hits. Large birds, but no idea what though.

As for problematic passengers...probably the worst case was many years ago, when I was doing my command training. A diplomat decided on some very undiplomatic behaviour towards someone else's wife. He found that we did not give a proverbial about his 'diplomatic immunity', nor did anyone else, and he was immediately tossed out of the country on arrival. I might add that the rest of his delegation were mortified, and helped.

Many problem children tend to give clues whilst still on the ground. I'm a very firm believer that anybody who plays up before we get airborne, won't improve in flight, so I will always have them removed...even if that means going back to the gate. I don't accept any excuses/apologies/whatever either. Airborne, the cabin crew are pretty good at looking after that sort of issue. I've had the police meet the aircraft a few times...the SWAT team that turn up in the USA is quite impressive.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Having just read through this article on AVHerald, I am curious to know your feelings on the incident jb747

Crash: Ethiopian Airlines B738 near Beirut on Jan 25th 2010, lost height after takeoff and impacted Mediterranean

I found the response of the airline slightly amusing at best

 

[jb747]

Having just read through this article on AVHerald, I am curious to know your feelings on the incident jb747

Crash: Ethiopian Airlines B738 near Beirut on Jan 25th 2010, lost height after takeoff and impacted Mediterranean

I found the response of the airline slightly amusing at best

The full report is here http://www.lebcaa.com/pdfs/Final Investigation Report ET 409.pdf

Sad reading at best. The airline is in dream land. There is nothing in this to show anything other than loss of control.

I was surprised to see that the captain had 757/767 experience as an FO. He shouldn't have been out of his depth, but that's all I can see. Calling for the autopilot, when the aircraft was over 60 degrees angle of bank is basically giving up...and it will never engage in those circumstances anyway.

The FO had 600 hours TOTAL. I don't care whether he graduated first or tenth on course...at that level of experience, no matter what is happening in the other seat, he's little more than a passenger. He isn't going to take over, and he probably couldn't fix things anyway.

Similar in many ways to AF447. Inappropriate control inputs, and a perfectly healthy aircraft crashes.

 

[mosanator]

Just out of curiosity, as an aside, did the "young" pilot fly the plane differently at all to other pilots? I.e was his age the only difference?

Not that any passenger could tell.

They did manage to land at Broken Hill without shortening my spine by a couple of inches - unlike the last time I flew out there.

I was not being flippant when I mentioned the shaving, this guy was not shaving - If you were a doorman at a pub and he didn't have ID, there is no way you would let him in. He looked younger than my 17 yr old son.
Do child prodigy's exist in aviation?

 

[vk6ksj]

Quick background for reference:
I am a low hours (315 hours total time, 105 hours PIC, 15 hours single piston PIC at night) charter pilot with twin endorsement and passed IREX.
Been licensed since 2009 but haven't found much charter work and was in a car accident a year ago so lost my class 1 medical. Before I got my CPL I was doing Sys Admin/Network Admin work so I'm back doing that for now until I save for more endorsements and get my class 1 back.

I'm from Broome but moved to Brisbane last October to check out what life's like here.

Trying to answer some quesions...

vertisol:
Big birds versus small birds? some pilots like cruising around at high flight levels, guided by FMS and not seeing much actual scenery, others enjoy being down near FL150 and checking out the rivers, mountains and other stuff as they cruise along. I enjoyed charter because you get to see all those things even closer. Each to their own really

tipsy.skipsy:
What's hiring like for someone with relatively low hours? in Northern Australia, places like Port Hedland, Broome, Derby, Kunuurra, Darwin, Gove, Cairns, etc, hiring is usually done around Feb, before dry season starts, June is mid dry season, that's winter down south but up North it's usually 8/8's and tourists everywhere!
If you're looking for work in Broome, try Broome Air Services (BAS), Broome Aviation or King Leopold Air. BAS will require an ABN and basically work as a subcontractor. Broome Av and King Leo you will work as casual. Pay is based on airswitch, ie you're only paid for the time you're in the air.

Down South though I haven't really noticed any real season for hiring, just gotta keep an eye on job pages like AFAP (I'd include the URL here but it won't let me) or throw "charter/scenic flights in [town name]" into your favourite search engine, see what comes up and email/ask them about availability.

Major: flight time prep?
For the RPT boys and girls, as jb747 said that's all done for them but for us charter pilots, we usually need an hour before, and after flight before the flight is actually complete.
If I'm due to depart, ie wheels off, at 7am, gott be at work by around 5:45 for paperwork, weight/balance/pax, weather forecast (ARFOR etc and BoM radar check), fuel, flight and duty, go out and do a "walkaround" to check everything is where it should be on the aircraft, oil and fuel are good, no stone chips in the prop, oleo's and tyre pressure are good, clean windscreen (seriously, clean it, 'cause it's bloody hard to land when you can't see, especially landing towards the sun), then of course have your pax safey briefed and into the aircraft and be taxiing by 6:45 so you're wheel up by 7.

Then of course when you get back, debrief pax, thank them for the flight and get their feedback if they enjoyed it, escort them off secure area, check fuel, oil, clean aircraft, do paperwork, put aircraft back in the hangar so it's ready to go when the next person takes it.

 

[mosanator]

jb - perhaps you could explain what this comment on the AV Herald site is eluding to ?
Thanks in advance.

Had it been an Airbus!
By Busdriver on Wednesday, Jan 18th 2012 16:41Z​

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I am not going to start and Airbus vs. Boeing war, so I won't mention what would have happend, if it had been an Airbus with its protections and autotrim. RIP​

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[jb747]

jb - perhaps you could explain what this comment on the AV Herald site is eluding to ?
Thanks in advance.

Had it been an Airbus!
By Busdriver on Wednesday, Jan 18th 2012 16:41Z​

​

I am not going to start and Airbus vs. Boeing war, so I won't mention what would have happend, if it had been an Airbus with its protections and autotrim. RIP​

He's saying that it wouldn't have crashed if the Airbus pitch, angle of bank, and angle of attack limits had been in place. As we all know, you can't stall an Airbus.

It's simple enough in any aircraft, irrespective of any 'protections', to give the aircraft a large enough sink rate to preclude recovery before hitting the ground/water. Given the spacial disorientation that the pilot was so obviously suffering, I doubt that the type would have made any difference at all. Actually, in that scenario, the AB might even perform worse than the alternatives, as it would G limit you to 2-2.5 g....which is sad if you need 3 for the recovery.

The Airbus has many good features, and many bad. Sadly the fan boys are unable to see the bad.

There are some fruit loops in the rest of the AVHerald thread.....

Here is another fly by wire aircraft, plus some mishandling. It doesn't end well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiId0z5EKtk

 

[harvyk]

On the subject of engine failure (or at least engine virtually failed), if an engine is out what sort of call can the pilot make towards what they want to do in regards to the flight? How would the actions differ between a longer twin flight (eg a transcon) and a short twin flight (eg CBR-SYD) and what would happen if a plane was a quad?

 

[jb747]

On the subject of engine failure (or at least engine virtually failed), if an engine is out what sort of call can the pilot make towards what they want to do in regards to the flight? How would the actions differ between a longer twin flight (eg a transcon) and a short twin flight (eg CBR-SYD) and what would happen if a plane was a quad?

With a twin, it doesn't matter whether it is large or small. Lose an engine, and land at the nearest suitable airport. The word suitable gives some leeway, but you sure wouldn't want to fly too far on one...as least not me anyway. With a quad your options are greater. If it's a shutdown with no other symptoms, then it isn't even an emergency.

So, for instance, if I shut an engine down around the WA coast on a flight to Sydney, in the twin I'd be looking at places like Learmonth, Curtin, or perhaps Darwin or Perth. In the quad, your fuel flow would most likely preclude going to destination, but Adelaide or Melbourne would be quite possible.

 

[harvyk]

Using the transcon example as above, say a quad had an engine failure on V1 on take off from PER to SYD. Would they likely go part of the way anyway, would they simply land again?

If the length of the flight was longer that they where over max landing weight, same scenario would they continue on to a suitable en route airport, or would they dump fuel and land at the departing airport again?

In the event of an engine failure in a quad is there anything special you add to a call sign to let ATC en-route know that you have an engine failure (thus reducing your available flight levels etc...)


Also when declaring an emergency do pilots use the phrase "I'm declaring an emergency" or words to that affect, or do they still use the word "Mayday" repeated 3 times, or is it simply up to the pilot operating the radio? Or is there scenario's where one phrase is preferable to the other and vice versa?

 

[jb747]

Using the transcon example as above, say a quad had an engine failure on V1 on take off from PER to SYD. Would they likely go part of the way anyway, would they simply land again?

Most likely just land again. You really don't want the engine being turned by the breeze for a few hours. You may have started with a minimally damaged (repairable) engine, but simply by not landing when the opportunity arose, you could convert it into a couple of tonnes of junk. You'd never really know why it failed. Do the others have the same problem? Dud fuel? Oil filler caps left off? If the weather is an issue, then you might use that to justify leaving, but once things have gone wrong, close airfields are very attractive.

If the length of the flight was longer that they where over max landing weight, same scenario would they continue on to a suitable en route airport, or would they dump fuel and land at the departing airport again?

Generally dump and land.

In the event of an engine failure in a quad is there anything special you add to a call sign to let ATC en-route know that you have an engine failure (thus reducing your available flight levels etc...)

Yes, just tell them outright.

Also when declaring an emergency do pilots use the phrase "I'm declaring an emergency" or words to that affect, or do they still use the word "Mayday" repeated 3 times, or is it simply up to the pilot operating the radio? Or is there scenario's where one phrase is preferable to the other and vice versa?

Varies around the world. The US doesn't understand the term PAN, whilst almost everyone else does. So there, the rather casual 'I'm declaring an emergency', or MAYDAY will work. Everywhere else, just use MAYDAY/PAN as required.

 

[smeacs]

cy.

So, for instance, if I shut an engine down around the WA coast on a flight to Sydney, in the twin I'd be looking at places like Learmonth, Curtin, or perhaps Darwin or Perth. In the quad, your fuel flow would most likely preclude going to destination, but Adelaide or Melbourne would be quite possible.

Fuel flow?