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Hey there pilots, have a "silly" question. Is it possible to forget to put the wheels down? Was doing a flight MDE to PTY on Copa airlines a few days ago, we were approaching panama, a bit of cloud and stuff, but no evil storms. I actually started to think about the fact I had not heard the undercarriage go down, when we did a go-around. Did a loop, this time I heard the wheels deploy, and we landed without incident. No commentary from pilot whatsoever, at any time, about the go-around.

I think it was an E-190 Embraer. Flight number was CM646, on the 27th April, from MDE to PTY, in case anyone can check the track.
 
juddles said:
Hey there pilots, have a "silly" question. Is it possible to forget to put the wheels down? Was doing a flight MDE to PTY on Copa airlines a few days ago, we were approaching panama, a bit of cloud and stuff, but no evil storms. I actually started to think about the fact I had not heard the undercarriage go down, when we did a go-around. Did a loop, this time I heard the wheels deploy, and we landed without incident. No commentary from pilot whatsoever, at any time, about the go-around.

I think it was an E-190 Embraer. Flight number was CM646, on the 27th April, from MDE to PTY, in case anyone can check the track.
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It is possible but to do so requires a breakdown in procedures. Between airlines and military there are a variety of procedures that can be used. I've attached a link to a famous/infamous wheels up landing at Tullamarine in an RAAF mirage. A wheels up landing in a mirage, theoretically, was not survivable (170 kts) and undercarriage issues required an ejection.

QAM - The Last Landing of Mirage A3-16
 
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Straightman, is the requirement (desirability) of ATC to monitor this only for military aircraft? In my case, I think we were too far for a visual input from the airport to have started the go- around.
 
In any case, despite the fact that I fly a fair bit, I have learnt to overcome my desires to "inform" flight crew whenever I get a case of the willies. Loud clunks and the sound of clatterring fan blades which alarmed me, I have learnt through this thread are ok :)
 
juddles said:
Hey there pilots, have a "silly" question. Is it possible to forget to put the wheels down? Was doing a flight MDE to PTY on Copa airlines a few days ago, we were approaching panama, a bit of cloud and stuff, but no evil storms. I actually started to think about the fact I had not heard the undercarriage go down, when we did a go-around. Did a loop, this time I heard the wheels deploy, and we landed without incident. No commentary from pilot whatsoever, at any time, about the go-around.
Click to expand...

It's certainly possible to forget, but as Straitman said, it requires a breakdown of the normal procedures. But, people get busy, tired, etc, so it can happen. Modern aircraft get very upset about it though, with various warnings eventually coming into play. The AB has 'too low gear' and 'too low, flap' as part of the ground proximity warning system.
 
jb747 said:
It's certainly possible to forget, but as Straitman said, it requires a breakdown of the normal procedures. But, people get busy, tired, etc, so it can happen. Modern aircraft get very upset about it though, with various warnings eventually coming into play. The AB has 'too low gear' and 'too low, flap' as part of the ground proximity warning system.
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I suspected as much. But as always I landed safely :) That is all I need. COPA are really good for me - one of the most reliable companies I fly - at least with times. But I certainly have noticed over the years that "western" airlines (mainly Qantas) at least tell pax what is going on. I know this is a luxury, but is it something that Qantas specifically includes in pilot's requirements? I assume ( I hope) that the last thing pilots do is inform pax of whatever. But is that a requirement for you in QF?
 
juddles said:
Straightman, is the requirement (desirability) of ATC to monitor this only for military aircraft? In my case, I think we were too far for a visual input from the airport to have started the go- around.
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If you read the Mirage story it explains how and why the military have different procedures.

Incidentally that's the first time I have read it myself. I've talked to Nick Ford about it but the discussion certainly wasn't as detailed as in the link I posted.
 
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juddles said:
I know this is a luxury, but is it something that Qantas specifically includes in pilot's requirements? I assume ( I hope) that the last thing pilots do is inform pax of whatever. But is that a requirement for you in QF?
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Not a requirement, but we'll try to keep people informed if time permits. A little bit of fact generally goes a long way.
 
juddles said:
In any case, despite the fact that I fly a fair bit, I have learnt to overcome my desires to "inform" flight crew whenever I get a case of the willies. Loud clunks and the sound of clatterring fan blades which alarmed me, I have learnt through this thread are ok :)
Click to expand...
A while ago my wife and I were in the process of boarding and had just reached the top of the stairs when I remarked on something (can't remember what) and my wife said perhaps we should tell the pilot. I replied that it was minor and I didn't think it was worth worrying the captain. However our conversation was overheard by the chief FA who urgently asked what it was that we should tell the captain? I was able to settle things down due to the minor nature of the matter, however the FA made a point of saying that anything you notice about the aircraft should immediately be passed on to the nearest flight attendant.
Now the moral of this story is that a passenger (especially an experienced one) can often notice something amiss either visually, audibly or perhaps an odd smell in which case a member of the flight crew should immediately be alerted so that the message can be relayed to the flight deck.
The lack of the noise you expected to hear as the landing gear was lowered is an important example.
 
On QF613 BNE-MEL today we were all seated, had pushed back and were ready to depart when the Captain announced there would be a short delay while the engineers checked a potential problem. No question, safety first, second, third.

We departed about 20-30 minutes late and the explanation was that there was fluid leaking from the "canoe" (or was is it kayak?). He explained that it was condensation running out and that after a passenger referred the matter to the crew it needed to be examined.

My questions are; how often do passengers refer matters such as this? and how often do they find a matter that is 'legitimate' and was either missed by the flight crew examination or had just commenced?

Was I concerned about this matter? No. Once the Captain announced we were taking off I slept the entire way home. After all the Captain and crew are up there with us so if it's not safe they're not taking off.
 
Hvr said:
My questions are; how often do passengers refer matters such as this? and how often do they find a matter that is 'legitimate' and was either missed by the flight crew examination or had just commenced?
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The cabin crew often query things. I can't recall any occasions when either the cabin crew or passengers have spotted something that we really needed to know about. On the other hand, we always investigate, and always tell them to continue reporting anything they are unhappy about to us. You only have to be right once.
 
Before I started reading this forum, I really had no idea about points, status, and status runs. Today I met a very dedicated AFF member who is doing 6 Melbourne-Singapore returns, over a 10 day period. I simply did not know that people did such things. About 84 hours in 10 days. That is not a roster that I want.
 
jb747 said:
Before I started reading this forum, I really had no idea about points, status, and status runs. Today I met a very dedicated AFF member who is doing 6 Melbourne-Singapore returns, over a 10 day period. I simply did not know that people did such things. About 84 hours in 10 days. That is not a roster that I want.
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He obviously missed out on the Double SC promotion
 
Will the A380 be another Concord? According to reports orders for the 380 are drying up or being re directed to smaller aircraft A350 or B787. It looks like Boeing will have the last laugh, staying away from A380 competition with a total rebuild of the 747 and instead concentrating on offering fuel efficiency with ultra long haul 787s . Good bye four engines and 400+ pax and welcome back more airport friendly twins.
 
lastrow said:
Will the A380 be another Concord? According to reports orders for the 380 are drying up or being re directed to smaller aircraft A350 or B787. It looks like Boeing will have the last laugh, staying away from A380 competition with a total rebuild of the 747 and instead concentrating on offering fuel efficiency with ultra long haul 787s . Good bye four engines and 400+ pax and welcome back more airport friendly twins.
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There is a whole other thread on this.

380, is the end near
 
To any pilots who are familiar with RAAF base East Sale, is Rwy 22 ILS? I ask as they will be conducting diversion training for their Growler pilots on a Tuesday. I want to see if I can grab some photos from near the runway.

Thanks.
 
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