Ask The Pilot

[jb747]

Hi jb, you are taking a plane load of passengers to LA , you have reached cruising altitude ,all systems are on auto and it looks like a quiet flight. What do you do then? Do you watch the IFE , read a book, play scrabble or nod off. It must be quite a challenge to remain alert and on station for 14+ hours.

Nothing 'looks like a quiet flight'. It's a 6,000 nm line across the Earth. It will intersect storms, and most other weather events that you can imagine.

Aircraft are machines. They spend their entire lives working out imaginative ways of killing you. Your job is to counter that!

In the coughpit...no books, no IFE. You can read the manuals. We swap every 3-4 hours. There are 500 people behind you...your job is to look after them.

 

[jb747]

The joys of it all.

Back in Sydney yesterday for a sim. Which was rescheduled from the week before.....

Turn up at 1200 for a 1415 start. Phone rings....sim is down...a bit of discussion re waiting it out, going home, etc. Decide to wait it out (as I'm already in the briefing room), and can't fly again until it's done anyway. Lose my Singapore trip the next day.

Eventually get the sim done. Lose the trip. Assigned a standby...

 

[ChrisGibbs]

Had an interesting one on this week's Thursday evening QF544 SYD-BNE 738 service. We lined up and held behind a preceding aircraft landing on RWY16L. After about 30 seconds we taxied down 16L and took the first exit to the right and rejoined the queue for takeoff. The PIC came on the PA and said a rain squall had come through and took the take off 'out of limits' for the aircraft - hence taxiing off the runway and waiting a few minutes in the queue to take off again.

I get the fact that weather patterns can be intermittent and things can change quickly however what had me confused was that 737's were landing on RWY16L while we were not able to take off? I was under the impression that limitations (like X Wind, etc) were tighter for landings than they are for take-off?

Thanks in advance.

 

[jb747]

I get the fact that weather patterns can be intermittent and things can change quickly however what had me confused was that 737's were landing on RWY16L while we were not able to take off? I was under the impression that limitations (like X Wind, etc) were tighter for landings than they are for take-off?

This is probably a scenario in which I need more context...

But...

Your Captain would seem to have not like what he was seeing, and decided to bug out for a while.

Aircraft on approach are reacting to different, dynamic, weather inputs. What they do is not what you should do!

Limits vary. The can be tighter in either direction.

 

[JohnM]

The joys of it all.

Back in Sydney yesterday for a sim. Which was rescheduled from the week before.....

Turn up at 1200 for a 1415 start. Phone rings....sim is down...a bit of discussion re waiting it out, going home, etc. Decide to wait it out (as I'm already in the briefing room), and can't fly again until it's done anyway. Lose my Singapore trip the next day.

Eventually get the sim done. Lose the trip. Assigned a standby...

I'm thankful that the sim goes down more than the real thing...

 

[AviatorInsight]

Had an interesting one on this week's Thursday evening QF544 SYD-BNE 738 service. We lined up and held behind a preceding aircraft landing on RWY16L. After about 30 seconds we taxied down 16L and took the first exit to the right and rejoined the queue for takeoff. The PIC came on the PA and said a rain squall had come through and took the take off 'out of limits' for the aircraft - hence taxiing off the runway and waiting a few minutes in the queue to take off again.

I get the fact that weather patterns can be intermittent and things can change quickly however what had me confused was that 737's were landing on RWY16L while we were not able to take off? I was under the impression that limitations (like X Wind, etc) were tighter for landings than they are for take-off?

Thanks in advance.

For the 737 the crosswinds on a 45m wide runway (or greater) favour landings in wet conditions than they do for take off (40kts landing vs 25kts taking off). If I had lined up and saw a squall line on the departure track which for 16L to BNE is the Kevin 6 Departure, I would have done the same thing. I think this was a good call from the Captain to taxi off and rejoin the queue to wait it out.

Aircraft landing onto 16L may not have necessarily had the weather implications that an aircraft getting airborne further down the runway might have been subjected to. It's not uncommon at SYD to have the weather at the northern end different to that at the southern end.

I've been on final for 34L and had a windshear encounter (as did the next few arrivals behind us), while aircraft were still departing with no problems at all.

 

[JessicaTam]

What training would be involved to change airline but with no change to rank or type? E.g. QF FO A380 -> BA FO A380?

Thanks.

 

[jb747]

What training would be involved to change airline but with no change to rank or type? E.g. QF FO A380 -> BA FO A380?

It would depend upon the airline (and possibly their regulator). At a minimum, it would be a case of knowing their rules, and a couple of sims, whilst at the other extreme, it would be the full conversion on to the aircraft...even if you're already endorsed on it.

 

[lastrow]

Does an airline have its own SIMs or is there a central pool. An airline with a variety of aircraft eg Qantas would assumably need to have a SIM available for each type and make sure that all are updated as required. Then not far away is another airline eg Virgin with many of the same aircraft, do they have to have their own SIMs ?

 

[jb747]

Does an airline have its own SIMs or is there a central pool. An airline with a variety of aircraft eg Qantas would assumably need to have a SIM available for each type and make sure that all are updated as required. Then not far away is another airline eg Virgin with many of the same aircraft, do they have to have their own SIMs ?

That will vary depending upon the size of the airline. QF has multiple simulators, with two training sites, one in Sydney and the other Melbourne. The ratio of sims to aircraft is about one for every dozen of the real thing. Virgin has it's own, but I don't know where or how many. One of the other guys may.

There are also companies that run training for smaller airlines, and charter operators. Both Boeing and Airbus also have training organisations. Ansett had sims in Melbourne, and I think they are still run as a stand alone business. In some cases, pilots have to fly to overseas sites a couple of times a year to carry out the sim training.

 

[Ansett]

Hi JB Ansett are still running training and sims.

Ansett Aviation Training :: Home

 

[AviatorInsight]

What training would be involved to change airline but with no change to rank or type? E.g. QF FO A380 -> BA FO A380?

Thanks.

If I was to move to QF onto the 737 I’d still have to go through the entire endorsement again, however my line training may be shortened given that I’m already current on type. I’d still have to get used to the way QF do things and the standard calls and procedures that go with operating the aircraft.

 

[AviatorInsight]

Does an airline have its own SIMs or is there a central pool. An airline with a variety of aircraft eg Qantas would assumably need to have a SIM available for each type and make sure that all are updated as required. Then not far away is another airline eg Virgin with many of the same aircraft, do they have to have their own SIMs ?

An airline isn’t required to have it’s own simulator. Virgin have 2 of their own 737 sims plus a Boeing owned 737 sim in BNE. The 777 Sim is also in BNE as was the Ejet which has now been dismantled. In MEL we go to the Ansett sim centre for the 737, while the A330 guys actually use the sim at QF because we currently don’t have an A330 simulator.

 

[straitman]

Sometimes the sim location can work to your advantage. Due to sim availability we had to go to West Palm Beach Florida for our training. When travelling so far it worked well to take some leave to extend the trip.

It was from these trips I learnt about hotel and airline status.

 

[tgh]

In the coughpit...no books, no IFE. You can read the manuals. We swap every 3-4 hours. There are 500 people behind you...your job is to look after them.

This great reply should be reposted as a why we fly ad ..

but …. supplementary question

There are many thousands of aircraft in the air 24/7. They encompass many cultures with differing levels of governance .

Are there any common processes to monitor pilot attention (like eyelid blink monitor etc )
Do any carriers run a coughpit recorder to capture little naps or the kindle popping out from under the seat ?

 

[jb747]

There are many thousands of aircraft in the air 24/7. They encompass many cultures with differing levels of governance.

And what goes on in the coughpit differs....

Are there any common processes to monitor pilot attention (like eyelid blink monitor etc )
Do any carriers run a coughpit recorder to capture little naps or the kindle popping out from under the seat ?

No. There are periodic calls for video monitoring of coughpits, as part of the flight recorder system. I presume that one of the surveillance states will eventually mandate it. The idea of recorders that can be accessed only by the accident investigation people isn't too bad. But, once installed, you'll find that certain police jurisdictions will love the idea of using them for prosecutions. There is no way there would ever be support for any system that gave airline companies access. The upshot is that cameras would be the place to hang your hat.

Eye tracking. Well, if you want to prove that pilots get tired, go to sleep etc, then that would be a good way to prove it. I suspect that the outcomes might prove that existing fatigue rules don't work, so neither regulators nor companies would want that.

The upshot though, is that this is intrusive. It does nothing for safety and would never be supported by the pilots.

 

[JohnM]

A semi-retired school classmate of mine who was with Ansett Aviation Training is a Fokker F100 simulator instructor with CAE at a base in Perth: CAE

 

[harvyk]

An airline isn’t required to have it’s own simulator. Virgin have 2 of their own 737 sims plus a Boeing owned 737 sim in BNE. The 777 Sim is also in BNE as was the Ejet which has now been dismantled. In MEL we go to the Ansett sim centre for the 737, while the A330 guys actually use the sim at QF because we currently don’t have an A330 simulator.

Whilst it's a QF A330 sim, is the staff operating it QF as well or is it a pure VA operation using QF equipment.

 

[AviatorInsight]

Whilst it's a QF A330 sim, is the staff operating it QF as well or is it a pure VA operation using QF equipment.

Purely VA using the QF equipment. Same situation with VA using the QF cabin trainer and slide for the 777.

 

[Borisdog]

And what goes on in the coughpit differs...................

Eye tracking. Well, if you want to prove that pilots get tired, go to sleep etc, then that would be a good way to prove it. I suspect that the outcomes might prove that existing fatigue rules don't work, so neither regulators nor companies would want that.

The upshot though, is that this is intrusive. It does nothing for safety and would never be supported by the pilots.

And since when have intrusive systems that do nothing for safety needed the support of the people it's being foisted upon?