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Thinking about the difficulty, In the mid-1970's wasn't there one "spider rider" in an Iroquois off the Qld coast doing over sea rescue and got hit by a wave? ended up on the beach? My memory is hazy in that one.

Alby

I haven’t caught up with him yet but I haven’t forgotten.
I’ll ask.
I finally caught up with Spida Rider.

His explanation of the incident that was very serious was also very funny and it took about 15 minutes. I have sent him the details of the thread so hopefully he will come online and write it himself. If not then I'll write a feeble version of it in an attempt to explain what occurred.
 
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Big change in lifestyle - short flights sleep in own bed mostly to ultra long haul “sleep” on airplane

That was literally my career path too.

For the pilots, once you finish a flight, what is maximum time you can be away and retain currency before you have to do another SIM/flight?

Is there a maximum time you can only do SIMs before you must do an actual flight?

Given this pandemic probably has another 12 months before we can see its end, how long will it take to get pilots back flying?

TIA

Actual flying is one take off/landing every 45 days. But then there’s another requirement to do 3 takeoffs and landings in 90 days. So you’ll have to do another flight somewhere in the middle to make the 90 day requirement.

Longest I’ve had off through this...so far....is 43 days off and I flew on the 44th day.

So if I don’t meet those then I need to go into the sim for a recency check.

CASA have granted the company extensions on our cyclic sims (not just recency ones) but it’s on an “operational requirement” basis, meaning they need to have a good reason why they’re extending it out.

If you do any kind of sim then that will qualify you to fly the line again.

To be current on the line, you need to conduct an annual line check as well. So technically you could keep flying the sim (3 take offs/landings every 90 days + your cyclics) and then just do your one sector in the aircraft for the year and still be current.

There are a lot of guys starting to fall out of currency on the 90 day now, and given that the east coast is struggling with infections, WA/SA will be making it much harder for us east cost based crew to get through.

Side note: Took me 45mins to clear “customs” here in Perth tonight because I live in Sydney. Luckily I’m out in 10hrs so aren’t subject to any testing. Just a temperature check is all they did. But it’s about to get harder...
 
Also interested in that question. I read online of a dispute between Delta and its pilots, where the pilots are asking for SIMs before they go flying again because its been so long and the company is refusing.

Virgin are doing this too. We are all saying we’re not current enough to do a check on day 1 given how little we’re flying, but the checkies are being really good about it all.

Given we only have 2 sims, and one of them is in a declared hot spot in Melbourne, it has been closed for a few weeks but will be opening again soon.

So 2 sims now for some 850 B737 pilots, there just isn’t enough fat in the system to give everyone extra training beforehand.

There still needs to be some level of competence going into a sim though, even if you have had a lot of time off. Arm chair fly, think of scenarios, use flight sim, get into the books again, make notes, go over the charts.

I agree it is a skill that gets lost if you don’t use it, but it should come back pretty quickly to you. The thing is not to try to do everything at the same pace you did when you were current. Slow things down and verify, take your time.
 
What goes on behind the scenes with pilots not being able to operate flights (eg. due to sudden sickness when they're already at the airport) and airlines having to find replacements? Noting legal hours, is it frequent to grab a pilot who was meant to do say SYD-BNE-CNS return later in the day and draft them in to do SYD-MEL-HBA instead? Is it conceivable to draft in a pilot who was originally meant to have an 'office' day at airline HQ and is suddenly in the coughpit?

I'm guessing our local airlines have many pilots they can call on who could get to the airport reasonably quickly if needed - does an aircraft in need of replacement pilots at a far-flung airport happen often and in those cases, are pilots flown in on the next scheduled flight while the aircraft awaits their arrival?

Also, assuming the same aircraft type, could a domestic pilot suddenly find themselves flying international, say a 737 SYD-CHC or vice versa?

Background to this question is IME I don't see many cancelled or delayed flights on account of pilot unavailability - those I've experienced were reportedly engineering issues, and staffing delays I have seen were when we had to wait for deadheading flight attendants, and in all circumstances it looks like airlines usually try to keep their original services or reduce delays to avoid crew/aircraft being out of position.

I'm guessing sudden pilot unavailability is rare, and I'm interested whether pilots frequently see their scheduled day and expected destinations change completely to fill these sudden gaps - eg calling someone at home saying "We need you to get into a taxi now and onto the next flight to ASP/KTA/LRE."
 
What goes on behind the scenes with pilots not being able to operate flights (eg. due to sudden sickness when they're already at the airport) and airlines having to find replacements? Noting legal hours, is it frequent to grab a pilot who was meant to do say SYD-BNE-CNS return later in the day and draft them in to do SYD-MEL-HBA instead? Is it conceivable to draft in a pilot who was originally meant to have an 'office' day at airline HQ and is suddenly in the coughpit?

I'm guessing our local airlines have many pilots they can call on who could get to the airport reasonably quickly if needed - does an aircraft in need of replacement pilots at a far-flung airport happen often and in those cases, are pilots flown in on the next scheduled flight while the aircraft awaits their arrival?

QF had a crew on standby for each aircraft type, at each main base. So, for the 747, which only based in Sydney, there was a Captain/FO/SO available in Sydney. There were generally two standby cycles per day, normally 4am to 4pm, and 8am to 8pm. The 380 had a single standby per day in Melbourne and Sydney. The 330 and 787 will be similar, but as they have more bases, I'd expect just one cycle in each place.

The standby crew had to keep themselves close enough to take off in approximately 3 hours. They were not at the airport.

It was rare for someone to go sick after the start of a duty, but not unknown. Most call outs were actually for the entire crew, after the previous one had run out of hours after an engineering delay.

QF domestic ops did not have standby crews at all, but it was generally worth their while to answer the phone.

Also, assuming the same aircraft type, could a domestic pilot suddenly find themselves flying international, say a 737 SYD-CHC or vice versa?

Not really any such thing as a domestic or international pilot. If your aircraft operated overseas at all you might find yourself going there. The 380 was immune to domestic ops, mainly because it wasn't something that worked well with ad hoc operations. Other types often flew both ops. The 767 regularly used to do them in the same tour of duty.

Background to this question is IME I don't see many cancelled or delayed flights on account of pilot unavailability - those I've experienced were reportedly engineering issues, and staffing delays I have seen were when we had to wait for deadheading flight attendants, and in all circumstances it looks like airlines usually try to keep their original services or reduce delays to avoid crew/aircraft being out of position.

I'm guessing sudden pilot unavailability is rare, and I'm interested whether pilots frequently see their scheduled day and expected destinations change completely to fill these sudden gaps - eg calling someone at home saying "We need you to get into a taxi now and onto the next flight to ASP/KTA/LRE."

Downline sickness (e.g. London) was common enough. In that case the company would attempt to move someone forward from the next day's flight. People would then be moved forward until a replacement could be flown from Oz, to enable a return to normal sequencing.That was one reason that most overseas patterns would include a stand down period of a day longer than the minimum legal. If you built the patterns too tightly, then any delays or other issues, would cause the entire system to break down.

Cancellations because of pilot sickness issues were extremely rare, but did occasionally happen.

We didn't really have days in the office, so we couldn't be dragged out of there. In theory you might be grabbed during a sim session, but we didn't wear uniform, nor was there any requirement to have your passport. Additionally, the clock would have started based on any duty you were doing, which would have precluded most flights.
 
What goes on behind the scenes with pilots not being able to operate flights (eg. due to sudden sickness when they're already at the airport) and airlines having to find replacements? Noting legal hours, is it frequent to grab a pilot who was meant to do say SYD-BNE-CNS return later in the day and draft them in to do SYD-MEL-HBA instead? Is it conceivable to draft in a pilot who was originally meant to have an 'office' day at airline HQ and is suddenly in the coughpit?

I wouldn’t say this was frequent but yes on occasion we would be pulled off a sector somewhere and given something else. Usually crewing like us being on a trip because then we could be used by them for no extra cost. I learnt this very quickly after I was supposed to be going to DRW on an overnight but instead got sent to HBA and all I had was tshirt and shorts. So now I pack for all occasions.

I have flown out of uniform before, but that’s a last resort. I was paxing to the simulator and during last year’s massive winter cancellations due to the strong winds, flights were constantly being cancelled. Crewing had called me and asked if I could operate for them (I always have my ASIC and a copy of my licence/medical) as the current FO was running out of hours, given that I was a “crew must ride” member and didn’t have a seat allocated, it was funny watching people give me weird and wonderful looks as I walked into the flight deck and got my confirmed seat.

I'm guessing our local airlines have many pilots they can call on who could get to the airport reasonably quickly if needed - does an aircraft in need of replacement pilots at a far-flung airport happen often and in those cases, are pilots flown in on the next scheduled flight while the aircraft awaits their arrival?

Also, assuming the same aircraft type, could a domestic pilot suddenly find themselves flying international, say a 737 SYD-CHC or vice versa?

Crewing know where we live and our proximity to the airport. I was sitting at home one Friday night (on a day off) when the phone rang asking if I’d like to come in to operate to MEL. Now given this was at 9pm (and lucky I hadn’t had a glass of wine yet), I told her I’d come in and I could get to the plane in an hour. We are usually given a 2hr window but curfew was an issue here. Needless to say I got the aircraft away before curfew and there was 180 pax happy to be on their way.

As for the aircraft type, VA didn’t have the same view as QF. If you were based in NZ then you got all the Pacific flying. It wasn’t until there was no other option that we would be called in for that flying. Bali was a complete disaster and had their own rules. You had to be based in BNE only on the 737 and the only flying you could do was Bali flights.

Now that NZ has folded, we are hopefully able to do all that mix of flying again. But we’ll wait and see what happens.

Background to this question is IME I don't see many cancelled or delayed flights on account of pilot unavailability - those I've experienced were reportedly engineering issues, and staffing delays I have seen were when we had to wait for deadheading flight attendants, and in all circumstances it looks like airlines usually try to keep their original services or reduce delays to avoid crew/aircraft being out of position.

I'm guessing sudden pilot unavailability is rare, and I'm interested whether pilots frequently see their scheduled day and expected destinations change completely to fill these sudden gaps - eg calling someone at home saying "We need you to get into a taxi now and onto the next flight to ASP/KTA/LRE."

Generally, there’s a lot of support from the company where if you know you’re going to be sick or unfit for duty, let them know as far in advance as possible. A last minute sickness would be right on 2hrs before sign on time which is 3hrs before departure. This will give crewing enough time to find someone else.

They also have check and training captains up their sleeve, who can operate from either seat if they can’t find a normal line FO/CAPT to operate the flight.

Going mid duty sick is rare, but I’ve had my flights cancelled because I would have run out of duty hours (I managed to get stuck in Hamilton island for a night so it wasn’t all bad). But that’s just the fast pace of domestic life. Slowed down now somewhat but we’ve all had a nice reset and are keen to get going again.
 
They also have check and training captains up their sleeve, who can operate from either seat if they can’t find a normal line FO/CAPT to operate the flight.

There was a time when CASA allowed any Captain to occupy the FO’s seat. Thankfully, they eventually came to their senses. I did one flight in that seat, not long after gaining my 767 Command. I was probably the most useless FO any Captain had ever had to fly with. Everything was on the wrong side. I might have been better able to find things if I’d sat in the seat backwards.
 
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There was a time when CASA allowed any Captain to occupy the FO’s seat. Thankfully, they eventually came to their senses. I did one flight in that seat, not long after gaining my 767 Command. I was probably the most useless FO any Captain had ever had to fly with. Everything was on the wrong side. I might have been better able to find things if I’d sat in the seat backwards.

That’s interesting. Never knew that. Was that a reason why you then didn’t want to take up a training command? 😉
 
jb747 or others, this appeared on 'The Australian' site on Wednesday 22 July evening:


'As Qantas sends its last Boeing 747 off to the Mojave Desert in California, Australia’s only aircraft storage facility in Alice Springs is rapidly becoming a United Nations of airlines.

Asia Pacific Aircraft Storage has taken delivery of nine Cebu Pacific planes this week and another Singapore Airlines’ A380, taking to 43 the number of aeroplanes now parked at the site.

As well as Singapore and the Philippines, aircraft from Thailand, Fiji and Australia are being stored in Alice Springs with more deliveries expected in coming weeks.

Singapore Airlines’ now has seven A380s stored in the Red Centre which has raised questions about why Qantas is sending its 12 A380s to California, at an estimated cost of $150,000 for each flight.

Nationals Senator Perrin Davey put the question to Qantas Group executive Andrew Parker during a Senate COVID committee hearing on Tuesday and was told the Californian climate was more suited to deep storage of aircraft.

“The vast majority of our fleet which is currently in storage is in Australia, with our Australian engineers looking after those aircraft,” Mr Parker said.

“Our A380s are based in California for deep hibernation because the climate we need is slightly different to Alice Springs for long-term storage. We do have an engineering presence in Los Angeles so there’s proximity for our engineers to have ongoing care and maintenance..'

------------------------

LAX is where QFi invested millions to create a large maintenance facility. I don't know if they are all contractors, or staff who've not been laid off but perhaps transferred to where the A388s have gone.

Apart from that, are there significant differences in the desert climates between Alice Springs and California (Victorville etc.) that validate the QF Group's public affairs man's comments about 'deep storage', or is this a furphy?

One reason to store some A388s in California might be so when flights resume, they can immediately do so from the USA end, rather than having to wait until the first resuming flight from SYD, MEL or BNE arrived.

The article further down also mentions that 'QF hopes to return the (six) A380s to service in 2023, a topic I believe jb747 has previously answered.
 
jb747 or others, this appeared on 'The Australian' site on Wednesday 22 July evening:


'As Qantas sends its last Boeing 747 off to the Mojave Desert in California, Australia’s only aircraft storage facility in Alice Springs is rapidly becoming a United Nations of airlines.

Asia Pacific Aircraft Storage has taken delivery of nine Cebu Pacific planes this week and another Singapore Airlines’ A380, taking to 43 the number of aeroplanes now parked at the site.

As well as Singapore and the Philippines, aircraft from Thailand, Fiji and Australia are being stored in Alice Springs with more deliveries expected in coming weeks.

Singapore Airlines’ now has seven A380s stored in the Red Centre which has raised questions about why Qantas is sending its 12 A380s to California, at an estimated cost of $150,000 for each flight.

Nationals Senator Perrin Davey put the question to Qantas Group executive Andrew Parker during a Senate COVID committee hearing on Tuesday and was told the Californian climate was more suited to deep storage of aircraft.

“The vast majority of our fleet which is currently in storage is in Australia, with our Australian engineers looking after those aircraft,” Mr Parker said.

“Our A380s are based in California for deep hibernation because the climate we need is slightly different to Alice Springs for long-term storage. We do have an engineering presence in Los Angeles so there’s proximity for our engineers to have ongoing care and maintenance..'

------------------------

LAX is where QFi invested millions to create a large maintenance facility. I don't know if they are all contractors, or staff who've not been laid off but perhaps transferred to where the A388s have gone.

Apart from that, are there significant differences in the desert climates between Alice Springs and California (Victorville etc.) that validate the QF Group's public affairs man's comments about 'deep storage', or is this a furphy?

One reason to store some A388s in California might be so when flights resume, they can immediately do so from the USA end, rather than having to wait until the first resuming flight from SYD, MEL or BNE arrived.

The article further down also mentions that 'QF hopes to return the (six) A380s to service in 2023, a topic I believe jb747 has previously answered.

In terms of climate, it's a bit hard to quickly find directly comparable graphical information but Victorville is, on average, drier than Alice Springs:

Alice Springs lies on 581m above sea level Alice Springs is influenced by the local steppe climate. In Alice Springs, there is little rainfall throughout the year. The Köppen-Geiger climate classification is BSh. The temperature here averages 20.8 °C | 69.5 °F. The annual rainfall is 286 mm | 11.3 inch.

Victorville: The Köppen Climate Classification subtype for this climate is "BSk". (Tropical and Subtropical Steppe Climate). The average temperature for the year in Victorville is 62.0°F (16.7°C). The warmest month, on average, is July with an average temperature of 82.0°F (27.8°C).


In summary, I think it can be said that Alice Springs, even though very dry, comes under a slightly more tropical influence than Victorville.

A lot more dredging the data could give more detail - but probably give the same overall conclusion.

Whether it's significantly different in terms of aircraft storage is another question. Averages for rainfall in places like ASP hide enormous variation.


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The OJN plane tags have sold out, no doubt on a wave of nostalgia with the QF747s being retired. It may have been asked, but was/is there a favourite member of the fleet that JB/AV flew/fly? One you always felt/feel a connection to?

Back in the 80s I worked for a department that had hundreds of vehicles, some that everyone disliked driving, and I certainly had a favoutrite (it was the Commissioner's Ford Ghia). So wondered if similar with aircraft.

My little piece of OJN arrived the other day. I would imagine you flew her a fair bit JB?
228 hours. It’s also the aircraft on which I flew my last sector (HNL-SYD) as an FO.
 
Hi JB with the kangaroo track for yesterday's QF7474 how complex would it have been to program the track into the navigation systems and would they need any special permissions from air traffic control?

Also could one of the 747ER planes fly from London to Sydney non-stop like OJA but not needed the special fuel that OJA needed?
 
Hi JB with the kangaroo track for yesterday's QF7474 how complex would it have been to program the track into the navigation systems and would they need any special permissions from air traffic control?
We’ve been discussing just how they did that elsewhere. I don’t think the FMC could do it. I expect that I’ll hear exactly how soon enough.

Also could one of the 747ER planes fly from London to Sydney non-stop like OJA but not needed the special fuel that OJA needed?

London to Sydney is the easier of the two directions. The dense fuel gave them a couple of percent, but not a great deal. The ER has about 10 tonnes of extra fuel capacity, which would probably more than match the dense fuel. They were also generally more efficient. So, yes, it could almost certainly do the flight.
 
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Asia Pacific Aircraft Storage has taken delivery of nine Cebu PAs well as Singapore and the Philippines, aircraft from Thailand, Fiji and Australia are being stored in Alice Springs with more deliveries expected in coming weeks.

Singapore Airlines’ now has seven A380s stored in the Red Centre which has raised questions about why Qantas is sending its 12 A380s to California, at an estimated cost of $150,000 for each flight.

Alice can be decidedly tropical. It would be okay for relatively short term storage, but I wouldn’t want to leave an aircraft there for too long. It also has limited space. Victorville has long term experience, which AS also lacks. Possibly the biggest factor though, is that there is a dismantling facility there.

One reason to store some A388s in California might be so when flights resume, they can immediately do so from the USA end, rather than having to wait until the first resuming flight from SYD, MEL or BNE arrived.

By the time they come back, there will be no expertise on the aircraft, and it will have to be treated as a new type. So, there is no way the flight will have passengers. Having said that, I doubt that it’s a hurdle that will be reached.
 
The OJN plane tags have sold out, no doubt on a wave of nostalgia with the QF747s being retired. It may have been asked, but was/is there a favourite member of the fleet that JB/AV flew/fly? One you always felt/feel a connection to?
Not so much aircraft that I liked, but there were a couple that I didn’t.

The 767, EAJ, had elevator weighting that I did not like. 744 OJA was the same. In both cases, it was within limits, but made their controls heavier than the rest of the fleet. EAJ just generally gave me a few issues.

The 747ERs were nice machines. I also liked the RR engined 747-200s.

The 380s were quite homogenous. Unless I looked at the rego, I couldn’t pick them apart.

And I suppose that I have fond spot for OJK.
 
The 767, EAJ, had elevator weighting that I did not like. 744 OJA was the same. In both cases, it was within limits, but made their controls heavier than the rest of the fleet. EAJ just generally gave me a few issues.

Who's laughing now?

 
Thank you pilots, really appreciate your answers! I have a couple more questions following on from them...

Do you have any tales of beating or not quite beating curfew? I've read about cabin crew trying to expedite boarding (not that I think it can be rushed much with carry-on) and maybe even sacrificing catering to make the SYD curfew - what's the pilots' perspective? Also recall one flight on finals that ended up having to turn back to MEL.

Must you wear your uniform for sim sessions?
 

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