Ask The Pilot

[AviatorInsight]

What's the protocols around eating and drinking (obviously non-alcoholic) whilst flying? (Talking airliners here)
For example, will the pilots eat meals whilst still actively flying, or will that only happen on breaks? Is there a minimum length flight which pilots would be offered a meal on? What about drinks and snacks?

Obviously each airline is different, so will take any answer as for that airline only.

I'll always have bottled water beside me and take a sip when I need to, obviously having a drink at 100ft is probably not a good idea, so there's a bit of common sense there. But eating is a different story. Meals wont be consumed until in the cruise. You get pretty good at scoffing things down on a MEL-CBR or even a MEL-LST sector.

There is just not enough time to eat anything on a 30min turaround.

Meals are broken into 3 segments of the day. So if we touch a meal window on a flight say 1800 - 2000ETD then a meal will be loaded, regardless of the sector length. At all other times then snacks will be available (not the most nutritious of things - but then again no aeroplane food is).

The fact that I haven't eaten the rubbish for more than 6 months is probably why I'm feeling so much better.

 

[I love to travel]

I'll always have bottled water beside me and take a sip when I need to, obviously having a drink at 100ft is probably not a good idea, so there's a bit of common sense there. But eating is a different story. Meals wont be consumed until in the cruise. You get pretty good at scoffing things down on a MEL-CBR or even a MEL-LST sector.

There is just not enough time to eat anything on a 30min turaround.

Meals are broken into 3 segments of the day. So if we touch a meal window on a flight say 1800 - 2000ETD then a meal will be loaded, regardless of the sector length. At all other times then snacks will be available (not the most nutritious of things - but then again no aeroplane food is).

The fact that I haven't eaten the rubbish for more than 6 months is probably why I'm feeling so much better.

Do you have any flights coming up?

 

[jb747]

What do you think of the 130 making an out landing? My thoughts were that the 130 pilot wisely decided that with that aircraft the best place to be was on the ground asap

We don't know the state of the C130 whilst it was still in flight. Their emergency call says they have two engines out, and possibly fire. The post landing images only show one good propellor. I guess it's quite possible that #1 was damaged during the landing. Same goes for the missing tank on the port side.

With two engines it should have been flyable, but probably not very well. It's not impossible that it was unable to maintain height, and in that case you can shorten the flight, but not make it longer.

The aircraft is somewhere around here.
Thermal
California 92274, USA
33.589280, -116.154882

Not all that far from a runway, but with a racing facility just short of the field. I think the paddocks are probably a good place to have ended up. Looks to be an excellent job. Not only did the crew all walk away, but I wouldn't be surprised if the aircraft flies again too.

 

[jb747]

What's the protocols around eating and drinking (obviously non-alcoholic) whilst flying? (Talking airliners here)
For example, will the pilots eat meals whilst still actively flying, or will that only happen on breaks? Is there a minimum length flight which pilots would be offered a meal on? What about drinks and snacks?

Obviously each airline is different, so will take any answer as for that airline only.

The long haul flights all had some sort of preflight snack, which was generally brought up shortly after you boarded. Normally a sandwich, though sometimes with extremely dubious fillings. You aren't going to get a hot meal until well into the cruise. At top of climb the more organised cabin crew would bring up some sort snack tray, and that would then keep us out of their hair until the passenger meals were done.

You could eat in your break if you wanted, but most meals were taken whilst in the seat. On the Boeings, you'd hand over to the other pilot, and only one would eat at a time. It was much easier on the Airbus, as you had your fold out table in front of you, and the controls are to the side, not directly in front.

There were rules with regard to flight times and durations for meals to be available, but I've long forgotten them. Suffice it to say that there was plenty of food if you wanted it.

 

[AviatorInsight]

Do you have any flights coming up?

None unfortunately. I need to get current in the simulator again, but have today received my updated stand down letter which is effective until the 24th January.

Looks like I’ll be getting a holiday period with my family for the first time ever in my career.

I must admit, I’m not ready to give up flying yet, but there‘s still a possibility it could be a forced redundancy.

 

[mjt57]

The fact that I haven't eaten the rubbish for more than 6 months is probably why I'm feeling so much better.

Read the news the other day about the new owners wanting to screw you guys to the wall. Hope that it all goes OK for you and that you're all back flying soon.

 

[AviatorInsight]

Read the news the other day about the new owners wanting to screw you guys to the wall. Hope that it all goes OK for you and that you're all back flying soon.

Honestly, this was to be expected. It’s what private equities do.

We’ve got an interim agreement at the moment during the crisis that we are working on. This shows our flexibility.

What we’re not ok with is eroding conditions and pay after the crisis basically ends and things start ramping up. Airlines never waste a good crisis.

The other problem is that QF are seeing what’s going on at VA and will also want to do the same to their pilots. So we need to stick together.

We also want people who have been made redundant (or will be) the chance of coming back to great working conditions.

This is not about being greedy. The airline didn’t go into administration because of our wages. They’re still bleeding $15M a month and we’re all on job keeper.

All we’re after is that we are paid commensurate with our experience. Would you go to a surgeon who has had his wages cut and hours increased? We have people’s lives in our hands too. The fact we have (Australia) such a great track record is a testament to our level of pilots, in my opinion. That’s also not to take away from ATCers either. Same rules apply there too.

VA want to negotiate an entire EBA by the end of the month. Normally it takes years to negotiate. The keyword here being negotiate. I don’t see this first one getting over the line.

 

[jb747]

The pity of it is, that there is invariably far too much ‘management’, in many cases managing things that could simply be amputated. As they’re already so remote from the actual working airline, it would seem to me that they’d be the perfect people to outsource.

 

[oz_mark]

None unfortunately. I need to get current in the simulator again, but have today received my updated stand down letter which is effective until the 24th January.

Looks like I’ll be getting a holiday period with my family for the first time ever in my career.

I must admit, I’m not ready to give up flying yet, but there‘s still a possibility it could be a forced redundancy.

I imagine Rex won't have too much trouble finding people to fly their 737s. (Although they may have pretty tight screws on the pay front)

 

[AviatorInsight]

I imagine Rex won't have too much trouble finding people to fly their 737s. (Although they may have pretty tight screws on the pay front)

I think there might even be a wait list already.

Thing is, Rex have come out and said that they will be pegging their pay at 10% below Jetstar.

I’d be interested to see the rest of their EBA when it gets negotiated, as an EBA is more than just pay, and then see what the sentiment is.

 

[mjt57]

I must admit, I’m not ready to give up flying yet, but there‘s still a possibility it could be a forced redundancy.

What would you do, if it comes to that (hope not)?

I work in the power industry. A couple or more years ago a fellow resigned from one of the major airlines (might've been QF or JS) and got a job doing what I do so he could be close to family.

He lasted about 6mths and said ,"bugger it, I'm going flying again". He's a young guy (well, compared to me), so this, like it is for everyone, must be devastating.

I suppose that had he stayed he'd be on a steady wicket earning a decent salary. But probably be bored to distraction.

 

[straitman]

What would you do, if it comes to that (hope not)?

I work in the power industry. A couple or more years ago a fellow resigned from one of the major airlines (might've been QF or JS) and got a job doing what I do so he could be close to family.

He lasted about 6mths and said ,"bugger it, I'm going flying again". He's a young guy (well, compared to me), so this, like it is for everyone, must be devastating.

I suppose that had he stayed he'd be on a steady wicket earning a decent salary. But probably be bored to distraction.

CASA and it’s regulations drive you mad.
Airline/company management and some of their rules and methodologies drive you mad.
The work hours can drive you mad.
The constant renewals and recency requirements drive you mad.
Much of the flying becomes very mundane and boring after a while.
It is however still better and much more satisfying than working for a living.

 

[AviatorInsight]

What would you do, if it comes to that (hope not)?

I work in the power industry. A couple or more years ago a fellow resigned from one of the major airlines (might've been QF or JS) and got a job doing what I do so he could be close to family.

He lasted about 6mths and said ,"bugger it, I'm going flying again". He's a young guy (well, compared to me), so this, like it is for everyone, must be devastating.

I suppose that had he stayed he'd be on a steady wicket earning a decent salary. But probably be bored to distraction.

I would go back to being an instructor, I’ve got a friend who owns a flying school that has offered me a position if I was to be redundant. Short of that though, I really don’t know. This pandemic has shown me that there’s not a lot of companies willing to take someone on who has no industry experience/qualifications outside of aviation, or they love using the term “over qualified”.

 

[albatross710]

This pandemic has shown me that there’s not a lot of companies willing to take someone on who has no industry experience/qualifications outside of aviation, or they love using the term “over qualified”.

As a country we need our smart maths, physics technical brains working in high skilled areas not trying to be stop/go traffic controllers. Consider a career in data or machine learning.

 

[D747]

What is the procedure with current international flights flown to Australia as freight flights? Do they have 'double crews' on board so they can unload, reload, refuel and leave again or are the crews swapping over with crews already here on a slip? TIA.

 

[AviatorInsight]

What is the procedure with current international flights flown to Australia as freight flights? Do they have 'double crews' on board so they can unload, reload, refuel and leave again or are the crews swapping over with crews already here on a slip? TIA.

I know from a mate at Express Freighters Australia (Qantas Freight), that they’re doing their Tasman run with 3 crew I believe? Their HKG run is part of a layover in DRW and theyre swapping the crew in and out from there. Ferrying the aircraft back to SYD for then another freight run to NZ.

 

[mjt57]

I would go back to being an instructor, I’ve got a friend who owns a flying school that has offered me a position if I was to be redundant. Short of that though, I really don’t know. This pandemic has shown me that there’s not a lot of companies willing to take someone on who has no industry experience/qualifications outside of aviation, or they love using the term “over qualified”.

That sucks.
There was an article in the paper a couple of weeks ago about the demise of Tiger. One lady, who was Ansett's first commercial pilot, now retired a captain, was saying how a lot of them were doing all sorts of jobs, driving forklifts, trucks, working on farms operating machinery and so on.

I remember when Ansett went cough up, there was a story about a former 747 captain who started a fencing business. One way to keep fit, I s'pose. I don't know if it became his life-long career or not.

Thing is, if the guy who joined the power industry and went back to flying is any guide, the talent pool amongst you guys is HUGE. Companies looking for talent would be stupid to overlook "over qualified" prospects.

 

[747sp]

I read this article and as I am not a pilot I don't really understand what the pilots did to resolve the issue to the problem. Would you be able to elaborate please.

The Aviation Herald

Aviation Herald - News, Incidents and Accidents in Aviation

avherald.com

 

[jb747]

I read this article and as I am not a pilot I don't really understand what the pilots did to resolve the issue to the problem. Would you be able to elaborate please.

They didn't do anything to rectify the issue.

The aircraft centre of gravity has defined limits, to ensure that the controls have enough authority to actually control the aircraft. If the CofG is too far aft, you get the situation that happened to the 747F in Afghanistan, when full forward stick could not stop the nose from rising, and placing the aircraft into a deep stall. If it's too far forward, you'll emulate the MCAS 737 flight paths.

During flight, it changes as the fuel is burnt. On smaller aircraft that change isn't all that great, but on large aircraft, with tail tanks, it can be quite large. The loading has to be done in such a way that the CofG remains within the defined limits at all stages of the flight.

When calculating the take off data, one of the numbers that is extracted is the take off trim setting. That's the setting that the entire tail plane will be set at, to give you the correct rotation and control forces at rotation. If it is miss-set, then, at one extreme, you'll be unable to rotate, whilst at the other, the aircraft will try to rotate without any control input, and before you want it to. Both are dangerous.

In this instance, there were a couple of effects. The CofG was much further forward than calculated, so the trim setting was incorrect, and therefore the aircraft did not want to rotate. The 'cure' of more power and go faster, increased the elevator's authority, so that it was able to override the nose down CofG, that should have been removed by the trim. Once airborne, the automatic trim system of the aircraft will move the tailplane, in an attempt to neutralise the need for the elevator input. Basically, it will apply a load of nose up trim. As there was enough trim available to do this, from that point onwards, the aircraft would feel reasonably normal.

But, because the trim is actually out of limits, and remains so, the control authority would be dramatically reduced, and this would become increasingly evident as the aircraft slowed and nose up trim was normally required. As didn't run out of authority, they didn't notice this effect, but they were actually in substantial danger for the entire time.

 

[747sp]

JB thank you . Can the same issue happen with the same plane type but different configurations . I am thinking of the a330 200 with Qantas and how they have an international, domestic and a hybrid seating arrangement.