Ask The Pilot

[jb747]

The office, 1980. This shot was taken whilst I was on Pilots' Course, at RAAF Pearce. Macchi MB-326H.
The instructor (in the back seat) went on to fly 747s for Cathay. Student in the front was, sadly, killed in a Mirage mid-air collision 1983.

 

[Quickstatus]

Your in-office photography started a long time ago?
What camera was that?
Those engines seem tiny

 

[jb747]

Your in-office photography started a long time ago?

In small amounts until about 78, when I seem to have worked out what I was doing. I was able to get some CT4 and Macchi shots that I was happy with, and I possibly have one of the best in flight images of our A-4gs. I was lucky in 1981 to spend 3 months with the USN, and during that time the opportunity came up to fly on USAF KC135 during tanker ops, which led to head on shots of Phantoms from about 20’ away. I had a couple of advantages over the RAAF/RAN phots. The major one was that the front seat of the Macchi and the TA-4 were by far the best for taking pictures from, but those seats have to be occupied by a pilot. The fields of view were less obstructed, and also the TA-4 canopy had less curvature at the front, so reflections were easier to handle. And because I was also a pilot, it was much easier for me to direct the aircraft into the positions that I wanted.

Sadly, not too much formation work after I joined the airline.

What camera was that?

I used Minolta in those days. So probably an XD with a 90mm lens. In general, the Kodachrome slides have survived, but Ektachrome has colour shifted (to blue) a fair bit. Other brands are largely gone…..

Those engines seem tiny

Engines? At the end of the wings? They’re fuel tanks. They came in two sizes, and I think that image shows the small tips. There was a single engine of 2,400 lbs thrust in the fuselage. It was more than adequate for students. Sadly, there aren’t any flying in Oz. The RAAF made sure that what they sold could not be restored to flight, as they were very concerned about structural failures. An ex navy Macchi, flying at Williamtown, crashed after a major failure. Basically their lives had been used up.

 

[Melburnian1]

'The Australian' on Wednesday 31 March 2021 has a magazine insert (64 pages) 'Command of the skies' commemorating the RAAF's Centenary so if you have an interest in it, buy the paper at Woolies or your local newsagent.

I've not read it, but at a quick flick it has some interesting historical photos and articles.

 

[Quickstatus]

Engines? At the end of the wings?

Not those.

At the wing root

 

[jb747]

Not those.

At the wing root

Ah, an engine intake. One on each side. They joined up before getting to the engine itself.

 

[Saab34]

JB and AI.
Is the ‘career FO’ a thing? Do people exist that just want to be in the right seat and stay there? I assume some who don’t pass the upgrade course repeatedly just give up and stay sitting?

 

[AviatorInsight]

JB and AI.
Is the ‘career FO’ a thing? Do people exist that just want to be in the right seat and stay there? I assume some who don’t pass the upgrade course repeatedly just give up and stay sitting?

Yes it is. Just like the career SO is also a thing. Granted it’s a lot more lucrative at QF than it was at VA but there were still people happy to just sit in the back of a tripler. Then there’s some FOs who aren’t able to pass command training, or simply just don’t want the added responsibility of it all who again, are happy to just have a window seat.

Personally, I loved running my own ship on the Saab and can’t wait to give it another shot...however long it takes now...

 

[jb747]

JB and AI.
Is the ‘career FO’ a thing? Do people exist that just want to be in the right seat and stay there? I assume some who don’t pass the upgrade course repeatedly just give up and stay sitting?

Yes, they are, and for a number of reasons.

If you look at QF, before CV-19, there were approximately equal numbers of SO, FO, and Captains. So, the AVERAGE career would be a third of the time in each of those positions. And if we say that the average age of people joining is 30, and retirement 63, then you’ve got 33 years of flying, with that mythical average person spending 11 years in each rank.

For many reasons, any promotion training almost always involved a change of aircraft type. So, for a 380 FO, he’d have to go to the 737 for his earliest command opportunity. But, there were various bases, and their popularity varied immensely too. The upshot, is that you’d probably have to change aircraft, and move your family to another city (or become a commuter, which has it’s own bag of worms). As a 30 year old just starting, moving around has few issues. But in your 40s or 50s it becomes extremely difficult. Kids are in high school. Wife has job. It gets very messy.

Taking this a bit further, when the 767 was retired, quite a few of its Captains gave up their 4 bars and took an FO slot on the 380 in preference to going to the 737 or even the 330.

Beyond that there’s the obvious case of people who have missed out on promotion training. QF gives a person two goes at such training, after which they are locked out forever. These people were mostly quite good FOs, but didn’t manage the mindset change that has to come with the change of seats.

QF also required pilots who wanted a promotion course to be recommended by the training training department. To that end, there were a number of sims that they had to do to get that recommendation. Quite a few fell over at that point, and so they were never in a position to even start the command training. There were lots of reasons for missing out at this stage, but one of the most common was “one man band syndrome”. Possibly good pilots, who were not managing a crew.

Another group that did exist (but not any more) were the SOs who were recruited at an older age. Some of these were ex flight engineers, whilst others managed to fall into the airline during one of the periods of growth and insufficient decent applicants. They’d run into the age/family life issues mentioned above, but even earlier.

 

[Saab34]

Beyond that there’s the obvious case of people who have missed out on promotion training. QF gives a person two goes at such training, after which they are locked out forever. These people were mostly quite good FOs, but didn’t manage the mindset change that has to come with the change of seats.

Do many struggle simply with ‘telling people what to do’ and so on?

From what I see on the other end, the beginning end, is a questionable standard of decision making and telling others what to do from new pilots. The good communicators stand out like dog balls.

Seems like some management type of job prior to entering this industry might be more helpful than anything else

 

[D747]

Do many struggle simply with ‘telling people what to do’ and so on?

From what I see on the other end, the beginning end, is a questionable standard of decision making and telling others what to do from new pilots. The good communicators stand out like dog balls.

Seems like some management type of job prior to entering this industry might be more helpful than anything else

I am not a pilot so feel free to delete this: In my experience people and machine management is mainly intuitive. It may require very quick decision making in crisis conditions. I honestly don't think this can be learnt in a course. It is mainly about trusting people to do what their training has taught them and keeping any panic under control, amongst many other possibilities. Thinking outside the box will also be required.

 

[jb747]

Do many struggle simply with ‘telling people what to do’ and so on?

No, not with telling people what to do. Knowing when to shut up, and let people get on with their jobs. Micromanagement is an appalling characteristic for anyone in a leadership position.

From what I see on the other end, the beginning end, is a questionable standard of decision making and telling others what to do from new pilots. The good communicators stand out like dog balls.

A good Captain sits back and reads the paper, whilst letting his crew get on with the job. He doesn't miss anything that happens, but does not say anything unless it will materially improve the outcome. The FO may not do something the way you would have, but unless he's failed to skin the cat, then it probably does not need any comment.

Seems like some management type of job prior to entering this industry might be more helpful than anything else

It's about good leadership. As best I can tell, most management is utterly devoid of the capability.

The reason "one man bands" are not liked is because they fail to include their crew in operational decisions. As such they simply are not using the resources that they have available.

In my reply above, I forgot to mention that the opportunity for promotion with the airlines comes and goes. For every person who achieves a promotion earlier than the average, someone else has to wait longer. And that longer wait can move them from a point where they are keen to have a shot, to 'why bother?'

 

[Saab34]

On a standby shift, if you miss the call or ‘accidentally miss it’ and so on, do you get a warning or something? Please explain from HR?

 

[Hvr]

In my experience people and machine management is mainly intuitive.

I honestly don't think this can be learnt in a course.

And yet the military and airlines spend millions, if not billions of dollars training people to be leaders. While lots of people are weeded out at application stage and throughout training, they obviously believe there is an economic return on investment made from training people to be effective managers and leaders of people.

As for people not seeking promotion to command roles, well we all reach a point in our career where we know we wont progress any further. Some people realise this themselves, whilst others are told. The worst people are those who rise above their level of competence and ruin the lives of their subordinates.

I have great respect for people who know their limits and support competent people who want to be their boss.

 

[jb747]

On a standby shift, if you miss the call or ‘accidentally miss it’ and so on, do you get a warning or something? Please explain from HR?

Standby duty is very real. It has to be signed off by scheduling after they call, and speak you personally, or you have to have accepted it via the online system. Once accepted, this side of lying dead in the morgue, they would not be accepting excuses. The outcome of missing a call out would be far worse than a talk to HR (whom any pilot would tell to go away). At a minimum you'd be talking to a fleet manager, and there would be some repercussions. First time, perhaps you'd find yourself doing nothing but standby for a couple of months (which would have a large financial effect). Do it again, and I doubt that you'd be around.

 

[jb747]

And yet the military and airlines spend millions, if not billions of dollars training people to be leaders. While lots of people are weeded out at application stage and throughout training, they obviously believe there is an economic return on investment made from training people to be effective managers and leaders of people.

The military attempt to polish what is already there. Mostly they simply cull, though the culling can happen at any point in a career.

Airlines spend nothing on leadership training. It is there already or it isn't. It's much cheaper to cull.

I can't think of anyone who developed a leadership skill that wasn't evident to degree at the start. Some had hidden depths and went a lot further than you might have expected, but those who couldn't lead a horse to water, never learnt to do so.

There's a lot of people out there who are one rank beyond their capability.

 

[harvyk]

Standby duty is very real. It has to be signed off by scheduling after they call, and speak you personally, or you have to have accepted it via the online system. Once accepted, this side of lying dead in the morgue, they would not be accepting excuses. The outcome of missing a call out would be far worse than a talk to HR (whom any pilot would tell to go away). At a minimum you'd be talking to a fleet manager, and there would be some repercussions. First time, perhaps you'd find yourself doing nothing but standby for a couple of months (which would have a large financial effect). Do it again, and I doubt that you'd be around.

If they do give the call whilst you're on standby, do they try more than once (eg if you couldn't answer the call immediately) or do they send some other sort of message like an SMS to say your needed?

 

[harvyk]

If you need to do a go-around, how much of the go-around route is already programmed into the FMC before you attempted the landing?

if you do need to do a go-around, do you simply re-join a STAR which'll take you back onto the right track for landing, or do you need to use a SID which brings you around back onto a STAR or is there something else yet again?

 

[Quickstatus]

Standby duty

Do the standby crew have to be within a certain minimum time from the flight deck?

I remember you said once you could be at home with the car loaded up ready to go. But that was maybe 3hrs to airport?. Not sure if that was a standby.

 

[Saab34]

AV/JB what’s the cultures like out in the jet industry in regards to calling in sick ‘fatigued’. Is it common?

I know a Jetstar Pilot (left seat) who had some 5 day crazy roster, and the last day he called in fatigued as he was stuffed as they all became 12 hour days due delays and he couldn’t do another, he was over it. He was expecting a ‘incoming’ is all he said when I asked him about consequences.

Airlines claim to the media and in investigative reports that they always encourage pilots to not come in if fatigued. I have my doubts if management actually hold themselves to that.