Ask The Pilot

[Saab34]

AV, I’ve have noticed a bit of media around this Jetstar issue at Byron. Do you operate into the place and is it a place of concern for Jet pilots? I have only been once but I recall on landing it seemed very tight on the ground and a bit of shuffling required to get aircraft in and out.

 

[Inlander]

AV, I’ve have noticed a bit of media around this Jetstar issue at Byron. Do you operate into the place and is it a place of concern for Jet pilots? I have only been once but I recall on landing it seemed very tight on the ground and a bit of shuffling required to get aircraft in and out.

This is a good read about airspace in Aussie, class G applies to Ballina

How airspace is managed

In Australia, there are two major types of airspace: controlled, and uncontrolled. Controlled airspace in Australia is actively monitored and managed by

www.airservicesaustralia.com

 

[AviatorInsight]

AV, I’ve have noticed a bit of media around this Jetstar issue at Byron. Do you operate into the place and is it a place of concern for Jet pilots? I have only been once but I recall on landing it seemed very tight on the ground and a bit of shuffling required to get aircraft in and out.

I’ve operated into Ballina for years now. It’s one of those places where you need to have a very good grasp of situational awareness. The aerodrome frequency is the same for Ballina, Lismore, and Casino. On a clear day on the weekend, the frequency can become quite congested with the TCAS lighting up with "bogies".

Even during instrument conditions, the start of the Ballina approach to runway 06 lies directly underneath one of the approach points to Lismore's runway 33.

To mitigate this, rather than putting in a controlled tower, Airservices now have a dedicated flight information service (FIS). This is done by an actual air traffic controller in BNE but they don't "control" the airspace. Instead, they provide traffic information only. We still need to separate ourselves from other traffic but it provides a good picture of who is around on first contact into the zone.

On the ground it is absolutely very tight on the apron and definitely does take some coordination with other aircraft to get in and out.

In fact, with the increase in heavy aircraft, there have been weight restrictions put onto operations into and out of Ballina. For us, that is our maximum landing weight of 66,360kg...even for take off. This was evident on my last flight where there are now divots being created into the tarmac and aircraft are needing more thrust to power off the bay.

 

[747sp]

I was wondering in the case when something has gone wrong and the pilots may not have time to communicate can another pilot who can see the event from another aircraft call a mayday and or can ATC do the same thing?

On the same line can you cancel a mayday if the issue is safely resolved?

 

[jb747]

I was wondering in the case when something has gone wrong and the pilots may not have time to communicate can another pilot who can see the event from another aircraft call a mayday and or can ATC do the same thing?

Yes they can. In particular ATC may treat a situation as an emergency, even though the pilot has not declared it...and that's probably not an uncommon scenario.

On the same line can you cancel a mayday if the issue is safely resolved?

Again yes, though just how ATC treat you at that point will vary.

 

[justinbrett]

I was wondering in the case when something has gone wrong and the pilots may not have time to communicate can another pilot who can see the event from another aircraft call a mayday and or can ATC do the same thing?

On the same line can you cancel a mayday if the issue is safely resolved?

ATC / Airports don't use PAN PAN / MAYDAY (if they do they're old school and well out of date) - within airports, they use LOCAL STANDBY and FULL EMERGENCY (level 1-3 depending on size of aircraft) which roughly correlate to the two phrases - in addition there is a Search and Rescue (SAR) phase declared usually by Centre / Approach ATC (INCERFA, ALERFA and DETRESFA) and are especially important when the emergency is outside of the terminal area.

It's very common when dealing with GA pilots for ATC to declare an emergency on the pilot's behalf even if they specifically decline it. Eg "ABC do you require emergency services?" - "Negative". ATC would probably still declare a local standby if there was any doubt. GA pilots often think they have to pay for the services, which is not the case.

At the end of the day it's all about communication and the people on the ground who have the full picture will make an appropriate decision - but almost always if a pilot declares a PAN PAN they'll at least get a local standby and if they declare a MAYDAY they'll get a full emergency. It's more that sometimes a PAN PAN will get a full emergency with consideration to the specific situation.

A pilot cancelling the emergency in the air may not and probably won't result in a full stand down of services, especially if they've already rolled out.

 

[jb747]

A pilot cancelling the emergency in the air may not and probably won't result in a full stand down of services, especially if they've already rolled out.

A freighter has a depressurisation due to failure of the outflow valve controller. Aircraft declares an emergency as it needs an immediate descent. Once it reaches 10,000' pressurisation is no longer needed, and as long as there's no other failures, then there is no further need for any level of emergency.

 

[justinbrett]

A freighter has a depressurisation due to failure of the outflow valve controller. Aircraft declares an emergency as it needs an immediate descent. Once it reaches 10,000' pressurisation is no longer needed, and as long as there's no other failures, then there is no further need for any level of emergency.

Absolutely correct, but I can tell you from my experience, depending on the airport, they're likely to stick with a local standby until the aircraft lands safely. Probably because the people who rolled out have nothing better to do, or it's a good drill, or ATC are lazy - in any case, they'll wait until the aircraft lands - regardless of whether the aircrew need them or not. Not always, every situation is different. I'm generalising here.

 

[cambriamarsh]

Any thoughts on the cause of this Air France incident

French investigators open probe of 'serious incident' on Air France flight

French aviation safety investigators have opened a probe after an Air France Boeing 777 airplane approaching Paris Charles De Gaulle airport was involved in a "serious incident," according France's air safety agency.

www.google.com

 

[jb747]

Any thoughts on the cause of this Air France incident.

There is no information, one way or the other. So, at this point I can't tell if there even was an incident.

 

[NM]

There is no information, one way or the other. So, at this point I can't tell if there even was an incident.

Has been reported in Aviation Herald, but still not much in the way of details, other than "the aircraft did not follow the commands".

The Aviation Herald

Aviation Herald - News, Incidents and Accidents in Aviation

avherald.com

 

[Quickstatus]

Some speculation here from a YouTuber 777 AA pilot

 

[jb747]

Has been reported in Aviation Herald, but still not much in the way of details, other than "the aircraft did not follow the commands".

The Aviation Herald

Aviation Herald - News, Incidents and Accidents in Aviation

avherald.com

Until I see something official, it actually smacks of that old saying..."what's it doing now". Which was uttered by a lot of people in the early days of electric jets, who generally didn't actually understand what they'd selected or programmed.

 

[ayebee]

check this for video of the DHL 757 at San Jose (Costa Rica)

https://twitter.com/hashtag/JOS0216?src=hashtag_click

Side issue - anyone know what Qantas was doing there ?

 

[Quickstatus]

DHL 757

Side issue

Both already discussed here

 

[ayebee]

Both already discussed here

oops - thanks

 

[cambriamarsh]

Until I see something official, it actually smacks of that old saying..."what's it doing now". Which was uttered by a lot of people in the early days of electric jets, who generally didn't actually understand what they'd selected or programmed.

"Training" issue then?

 

[jb747]

"Training" issue then?

We can't really apply that to the AF 777 case, because we don't actually know what happened. In the days when the term was invented, it was the combination of new technology, and software that probably made more sense to the programmers than it did to those trying to operate it. It was also so many layers deep, that it was literally impossible to cover every facet of it in training. In the early days of 747-400 conversions, one thing that they made sure of, was that you knew how to convert it back into a 747-300, so there was a good fallback if you got yourself confused. And a year or so later, you'd played with the systems enough to have taught yourself all you actually needed to know...and that was generally a small subset of what the systems could potentially do. Sadly (and this continues) these aircraft and systems are complex beyond any reasonable need.

 

[LCC]

Is it a frequent occurrence for there to be a delay in opening the aircraft door on arrival due to malfunction of the airbridge? We had to wait for more then 15 minutes last week in SYD at the gate (SQ241) for the door to be accessed. The pilot advised after the first 10 minutes or so of inaction that the ground crew were having difficulties with the airbridge. Anyway a further 5 or 10 min later they managed to manoeuvre it to the second door. I have only had this happen once before many many years ago also in SYD arriving from NZ. But I wondered if pilots and aircrew have to cope with this on a frequent basis?

 

[jb747]

Is it a frequent occurrence for there to be a delay in opening the aircraft door on arrival due to malfunction of the airbridge? We had to wait for more then 15 minutes last week in SYD at the gate (SQ241) for the door to be accessed.

I don't know that I can put a number to it. Perhaps a couple of percent of arrivals.