Ask The Pilot

[Cheatah]

Thanks JB for answering.

Such a shame in so many ways

 

[Quickstatus]

Rapid vs emergency evacuation

When emergency slides deploy, I take that to mean “emergency”, “get out asap” and I’m going to get out even if it means pushing someone out/aside - basically like a “bull in China shop”.

Now the ATSB is recommending a more nuanced emergency slide operation - rapid vs emergency.

In chaotic environments such as a evacuation, the mental model of passengers and cabin crew may be very different. Trying to get everyone to the same mental model - ie this is a rapid evac and not an emergency evac may well be impossible to achieve. They already have difficulty telling passengers to leave bags behind let alone giving commands that may be different to what passengers are expecting when they see slides being deployed.

What are the potential risks here of adopting a tiered evac when slides are deployed from an aviator’s POV?.

 

[jb747]

Rapid vs emergency evacuation

Now the ATSB is recommending a more nuanced emergency slide operation - rapid vs emergency.

In chaotic environments such as a evacuation, the mental model of passengers and cabin crew may be very different. Trying to get everyone to the same mental model - ie this is a rapid evac and not an emergency evac may well be impossible to achieve. They already have difficulty telling passengers to leave bags behind let alone giving commands that may be different to what passengers are expecting when they see slides being deployed.

What are the potential risks here of adopting a tiered evac when slides are deployed from an aviator’s POV?.

I haven’t read anything from the ATSB regarding this, but it’s worth noting that for the vast majority of my career with QF, they had exactly this procedure in place. As best I recall it was withdrawn because someone (the ATSB perhaps) felt that having two procedures would be confusing.

If the aircraft comes to a halt with lots of braking, the call “evacuate, evacuate, evacuate” is made, and there an alarm screeching, then running away via whatever opening you can find would seem to be a good response. Those who need their luggage, should wait and go last.

But, if a reasonably calm PA is made, explaining what will happen, and then only one or two slides are set off, whilst the cabin crew guard the others, and their doors remain closed, then I expect most people will be able to grasp that it’s walk away, not run. This procedure can be upgraded to an evacuation, and even more importantly, it can be stopped. If some still feel the overwhelming need to use a slide, then I’d let them.

The entire evacuation scenario is very interesting. It is anything but black and white. If I take my QF30 as an example, I’m certain that many airlines would have evacuated as soon as the aircraft stopped. We considered that, but saw no real need, and there was the certain knowledge that we‘d go from having no injuries to some. Nevertheless, the cabin crew remained ‘primed’ by the doors until we were parked. Options are always good.

 

[Quickstatus]

and even more importantly, it can be stopped. If some still feel the overwhelming need to use a slide, then I’d let them.

It was interesting to see people using slides when the aerobridge was already connected. It would be interesting to know what the sliders thought and why they took the slide option. Have any studies been done on aircraft evacuees regarding their memory of their evacuation and especially memory of cabin crew commands?.

 

[jb747]

The issue of evacuation when at a bridge is sufficiently grey that it comes up as a discussion item in command training. There is no answer that is necessarily correct, although when looked at in hindsight there’s plenty of opportunity to be wrong.

There’s probably a scale of time to be considered. Using a bridge would take, say 7-10 minutes to get everyone off. Using 3 slides (380), might take 5 minutes. Using all of the slides, less than 90 seconds. Injuries will range from nothing with the bridge, through probably minor but maybe a broken angle with ‘calm’ slide use. You’ll almost certainly have some broken legs and even hips with the full fat evacuation. So, question for the Captain is simply…“how much time do you think you have”. Said decision to be made with minimal information.

 

[Quickstatus]

I haven’t read anything from the ATSB regarding this

Discovered the link above not connecting - now corrected. ATSB report of A330 VH-EBC 15Dec2019

 

[jb747]

Your link now works. I'm glad I never had to deal with that scenario.

 

[jb747]

Cold, drizzly day at home, so I'm cleaning up some pictures that I rescanned during the various lockdowns.

 

[jb747]

And one more. I think this is just about the best RAN A-4G picture that there is!

 

[MooTime]

And one more. I think this is just about the best RAN A-4G picture that there is!

View attachment 282596

Very cool. nice.

 

[trooper]

Huge number of A-4 photos/stories have been appearing on FB today. That includes the first photo ive seen showing WHY the undercarriage was as high as it was... an A-4 with a Mk7 (?) Nuke.



On a somewhat gentler topic..BEARDS. The only time I ever saw any restriction was in the Gulf in 91... we received a signal from our Commodore on about the 15th/16th of January saying "Hostilities are imminent. Shave off -R- Shave off" So..the beards all went then to ensure a good seal with GAS masks. Presumably the Oxygen masks seal was "less critical"?

 

[jb747]

Huge number of A-4 photos/stories have been appearing on FB today. That includes the first photo ive seen showing WHY the undercarriage was as high as it was... an A-4 with a Mk7 (?) Nuke.

View attachment 282606

On a somewhat gentler topic..BEARDS. The only time I ever saw any restriction was in the Gulf in 91... we received a signal from our Commodore on about the 15th/16th of January saying "Hostilities are imminent. Shave off -R- Shave off" So..the beards all went then to ensure a good seal with GAS masks. Presumably the Oxygen masks seal was "less critical"?

Even with the longish undercarriage, I can't believe that bomb wouldn't have been ploughing the ground. Perhaps that dorsal fin could be folded, or maybe Photoshop is older than I thought.

There is a major difference with the type of gas mask you're talking about. Oxygen masks provide excess pressure, so any leakage past the seal is always outwards. Without that excess, leakage could be inwards, and with something like sarin, that's obviously very bad....

 

[ayebee]

Recently had the pleasure of some holiday flights after a 2 year break, and have a question for any A330-200 experts out there.

On flight from Perth to Melbourne earlier this week, as the aircraft accelerated for take off there was a quite violent vibration / shuddering for a few seconds (felt like 10 seconds, so probably 5) which was rather off putting and enough for my wife to look at me with some alarm. The vibration stopped before leaving the ground and all seemed normal after that.
Now wondering what may have caused it.

 

[silkot]

Gents. A a lot of talk recently around flight crew grooming standards, a few British big carriers relaxing rules also.

Do you think flight crew grooming standards need to be relaxed? Times have changed? I know tattoos seem to be the norm now.

Times changed. And I'm working as a cabin crew. We are finally allowed to get tattoos, but which will be hidden under the uniform. That's really nice news for me because I was dreaming about it for a very long time! Now I would like to get a tattoo of the sun, or the plane, or the pic of the sky not sure that can get into the tattoo)) I wanna a little tattoo. Any ideas for tattoos for a cabin crew??))

 

[Chargerset]

Times changed. And I'm working as a cabin crew. We are finally allowed to get tattoos, but which will be hidden under the uniform. That's really nice news for me because I was dreaming about it for a very long time! Now I would like to get a tattoo of the sun, or the plane, or the pic of the sky not sure that can get into the tattoo)) I wanna a little tattoo. Any ideas for tattoos for a cabin crew??))

My congratulations! I had a wish to be a cabin crew in the childhood, but dreams not always come true. But I'm happy that you can get tattoos now. So you would like to get symbolic tattoo. I have seen tattoo ideas at <redacted>, there you can read about what tattoo of the sun is meaning, and what it will bring into your life. Best wishes!

 

[Saab34]

Times changed. And I'm working as a cabin crew. We are finally allowed to get tattoos, but which will be hidden under the uniform.

I find it bizarre that you cannot get a tattoo that is covered? I mean how do they even know and if it’s hidden why would management even care either way? I assume it’s one of the middle eastern carriers?

 

[silkot]

I find it bizarre that you cannot get a tattoo that is covered? I mean how do they even know and if it’s hidden why would management even care either way? I assume it’s one of the middle eastern carriers?

Before hiring us to work they check. Ofc they wont ask you to show you all body, but better to dont lie. And yes, u are right about guessing which carriers it is))

 

[Saab34]

Before hiring us to work they check. Ofc they wont ask you to show you all body, but better to dont lie. And yes, u are right about guessing which carriers it is))

I figured as much. Behaviour from those nations on point I guess.

 

[trooper]

Even with the longish undercarriage, I can't believe that bomb wouldn't have been ploughing the ground. Perhaps that dorsal fin could be folded, or maybe Photoshop is older than I thought.

There is a major difference with the type of gas mask you're talking about. Oxygen masks provide excess pressure, so any leakage past the seal is always outwards. Without that excess, leakage could be inwards, and with something like sarin, that's obviously very bad....

Good point on the photo. What a shame.

And yes, there are some pretty nasty agents out there... "Blood, Choking and Nerve" IIRC.. Many of which were "Persistent/Lethal" Losing a beard was really pretty trivial. (Although the putatively LSD based ones (merely Temporary/Incapacitating) might have been somewhat more interesting...

 

[kelvedon]

Any ideas for tattoos for a cabin crew??))

“please do not remove from aircraft”
“ airplane mode”