Ask The Pilot

[AviatorInsight]

Thanks. I was more curios as to what the guy, in the first pic 'sitting' on the lip of the cowling, might have been doing a few seconds earlier, when he was entirely within the engine space? Don't know how long he was there - 20 seconds after I noticed it.

Also, odd (I think) that they parked it at gate 2 if it was a prolonged stint of maintenance/inspection. Or perhaps they found more than initially expected.

He has gloves on. He's putting those straps that you can see come out of the fan blades and attaching them to the outside of the nacelle. It's to stop the fan blades from rotating in the wind. This is normal when the engineers "put the aircraft to bed" of a night time.

I find it interesting too unless the hangar was also full, and they couldn't tow another one in there.

 

[AviatorInsight]

MEL currently fogged in. Flights cancelled or diverted inc. international arrivals.

According to MEL's webpage and FAQs it has Cat III B ILS which means that aircraft can land in fog. Yet, according to the media, flights are being diverted or cancelled or whatever due to the fog.

Why would this be so?

If the weather is calling for CAT IIIB approaches, the airport slows right down, on the ground for taxi and for both departure and arrival rates.

This means that inbound aircraft either need to accept the amount of holding they are given (assuming they have the fuel), or divert, regardless of whether they are IIIB qualified.

 

[straitman]

I am sure this will come up quickly and there will be lots of questions for jb747.

QF1 is currently squawking 7700 and has diverted to Baku (GYD) in Azerbaijan. It has just landed whilst I typed this message.

 

[serfty]

I am sure this will come up quickly and there will be lots of questions for jb747.

QF1 is currently squawking 7700 and has diverted to Baku (GYD) in Azerbaijan. It has just landed whilst I typed this message.

Posts on this Issue have been moved here:

QF1 from SIN diversion to Baku, Azerbaijan (GYD)

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

Please continue discussion there.

 

[OZDUCK]

It appears that the B737-200 freighter crash off Hawaii back in 2021 was caused by the pilots misidentifying the engine that was having problems. They put the 'good' engine in idle mode and with the loss of power were unable to return to the airport.

I know that this is far from the first time this has occurred - the British Midland Airways crash in 1989 comes immediately to mind. To a completely unqualified person like me it seems strange that such events occur. Do you think that the sudden workload overcomes the pilots training or is the instrumentation insufficient to allow for a quick diagnosis?

The Aviation Herald

Aviation Herald - News, Incidents and Accidents in Aviation

avherald.com

 

[jb747]

It appears that the B737-200 freighter crash off Hawaii back in 2021 was caused by the pilots misidentifying the engine that was having problems. They put the 'good' engine in idle mode and with the loss of power were unable to return to the airport.

The engine that failed didn't do so entirely, by the sound of it. It was still running, albeit not producing much thrust. When they mistakenly pulled back the power on #1, it would have been showing lower numbers than the dud #2, which reinforced their ideas as to which had issues. The engine identification should have happened with the thrust levers still matched. They never formally identified which engine. And when it became obvious that the aircraft wasn't going to fly, they should have pushed both levers up. Even an engine that is on fire, is producing thrust, and if you need it, then that overrides any other issues.

I know that this is far from the first time this has occurred - the British Midland Airways crash in 1989 comes immediately to mind.

TransAsia Airways 235 comes to mind too.

To a completely unqualified person like me it seems strange that such events occur. Do you think that the sudden workload overcomes the pilots training or is the instrumentation insufficient to allow for a quick diagnosis?

Not all pilots are equal!

Does it need a quick diagnosis? Not really. Very few things need people to rush. The engine is unlikely to end up less dead because you hurried the shutdown.

 

[OZDUCK]

The engine that failed didn't do so entirely, by the sound of it. It was still running, albeit not producing much thrust. When they mistakenly pulled back the power on #1, it would have been showing lower numbers than the dud #2, which reinforced their ideas as to which had issues. The engine identification should have happened with the thrust levers still matched. They never formally identified which engine. And when it became obvious that the aircraft wasn't going to fly, they should have pushed both levers up. Even an engine that is on fire, is producing thrust, and if you need it, then that overrides any other issues.

TransAsia Airways 235 comes to mind too.

Not all pilots are equal!

Does it need a quick diagnosis? Not really. Very few things need people to rush. The engine is unlikely to end up less dead because you hurried the shutdown.

Thanks

 

[ChrisGibbs]

In larger aircraft does the engine out checklist of 'pitch up, power up, gear up, flaps up, dead leg, dead engine' apply...

 

[jb747]

In larger aircraft does the engine out checklist of 'pitch up, power up, gear up, flaps up, dead leg, dead engine' apply...

The smallest multi engine aircraft that I ever flew was a 767, so that 'checklist' is new to me.

But, anyone who identifies the failed engine by the dead leg, dead engine theory would be failed in a sim. It's a set up to get the wrong engine.

 

[ChrisGibbs]

The smallest multi engine aircraft that I ever flew was a 767, so that 'checklist' is new to me.

But, anyone who identifies the failed engine by the dead leg, dead engine theory would be failed in a sim. It's a set up to get the wrong engine.

I'm talking light twin - Duchess, Seminole, Partenavia, C310, etc.

ONE ENGINE FAILURE IN FLIGHT ......................................................................
MAINTAIN DIRECTION AND SPEED
1. MIXTURES ......................................................................................... FRWD
2. PROPS .............................................................................................. FRWD
3. THROTTLES....................................................................................... FRWD
4. GEARS ...................................................................................................UP
5. FLAPS ....................................................................................................UP .........................................................................

IDENTIFY INOPERATIVE ENGINE ........................................................ CHECK FOR FIRE AND FEATHER (OIL LOST) IF THERE’S AN ENGINE FIRE, SEE «ENGINE IN FIRE» PROCEDURE

ENGINE SECURING PROCEDURE
1. THROTTLE OF INOP ENGINE .............................................................RETARD
2. PROP OF INOP ENGINE .................................................................. FEATHER
3. MIXTURE ON INOP ENGINE.................................................................CLOSE ........................................................................ CHECK FOR FIRE AND FEATHER
4. AUX. FUEL PUMP................................................................................... OFF
5. MAGS INOP ENGINE............................................................................... OFF
6. COWL FLAPS...........................................................................AS REQUIRED
7. ALTERNATE AIR OF INOP ENGINE............................................................ OFF
8. FUEL SELECTOR OF INOP ENGINE .......................................................... OFF
9. FUEL MANAGEMENT ............................................................... CROSSFEED?
10. ALTERNATOR SWITCH OF INOP ENGINE .................................................. OFF
11. ELECTRICAL LOAD.......................................................................... REDUCE .........................................
ADJUST POWER AND TRIM ON OPERATIONAL ENGINE

What's the acceptable method (aside from dead leg / dead engine) to identify the Inoperative Engine?

 

[jb747]

I'm talking light twin - Duchess, Seminole, Partenavia, C310, etc.

Ah, the sort of aircraft in which the second engine is there to carry you to the accident site.

What's the acceptable method (aside from dead leg / dead engine) to identify the Inoperative Engine?

Bear in mind that all of my experience relates to jet aircraft.

Once you get airborne, we'll trim out all of the rudder force (and some aircraft will apply quite a bit of rudder on their own, via the yaw damper). So, even with that engine "failure" (and I say it that way because there are quite a few modes of failure, so it hasn't necessarily snuffed itself), we should very quickly end up back in stable, completely trimmed out, flight. Once we've achieved that, we'll look at working out whatever the problem is. The support pilot may have called something, but he should not have called an engine number (so "engine problem" is ok, but not "engine failure #3"). Once in that stable flight, we'd generally put an autopilot in. In any event, when you're ready to continue, you might say something along the lines of "what do you see?", and he'll go through the appropriate engine gauges (EPR, rpm, temperature), or any messages if ECAM or EICAS has anything to say. You will then check yourself, and assuming you agree, will call for a checklist/actions. He can action anything that is not irreversible and which does not involve the thrust levers. If he wants a thrust lever moved, he'll call for that, and the pilot flying will action it. Fuel control switches must be confirmed as the correct one before they are moved. Fire switch must be confirmed if it isn't illuminated.

With regard to the 'dead' leg... They will both be dead because we trim out the forces well before any checklists are actioned.

 

[ChrisGibbs]

Ah, the sort of aircraft in which the second engine is there to carry you to the accident site.

I did my twin endorsement on the Seminole with Tom Dennis at the Airport Flying School in Canberra back in the early 90's. All the practice engine failures (in the circuit area or in the cruise) were with only 2 POB. I wouldn't have enjoyed a failure on take off with max weight...

At the Airport Flying School I recall a number of Army, Navy and Air Force pilots transitioning from the military to civilian flying doing an 'abridged' version of the CPL on the Seminole before they went off to one of the airlines or commercial flying companies contracted to DoD like FSS...

@jb747 - did you do a Military - Civilian conversion prior to moving from the Navy to QF?

 

[straitman]

Ah, the sort of aircraft in which the second engine is there to carry you to the accident site.

The Sikorsky 76 helicopter was about half way to that. It was possible to fly on one engine but not possible to hover on one engine.

I was in Bass Strait one day and had a failure of one engine. Someone else in a Bell 412 actually came to escort me home and do a visual inspection of my aircraft. Even on one engine I had to slow down for him.
From there it was simply a matter of continuing to base and doing a running landing and taxying in. Fortunately it was an internal failure of the engine and there was no airframe damage.

 

[Flyerqf]

What would the crew (tech and cabin) be for the empty A380 returning back from Azerbaijan?

 

[Quickstatus]

What would the crew (tech and cabin) be for the empty A380 returning back from Azerbaijan?

answered here for QF 6025 recovery ferry flight:

Normal crew for a long ferry would be 4 pilots, and 2 cabin crew.

 

[Flyerqf]

answered here for QF 6025 recovery ferry flight

Thanks, missed that thread. Out of interest, what are the crewing arrangements for the positioning flights between Sydney and Melbourne?

 

[jb747]

I did my twin endorsement on the Seminole with Tom Dennis at the Airport Flying School in Canberra back in the early 90's. All the practice engine failures (in the circuit area or in the cruise) were with only 2 POB. I wouldn't have enjoyed a failure on take off with max weight...

At the Airport Flying School I recall a number of Army, Navy and Air Force pilots transitioning from the military to civilian flying doing an 'abridged' version of the CPL on the Seminole before they went off to one of the airlines or commercial flying companies contracted to DoD like FSS...

- did you do a Military - Civilian conversion prior to moving from the Navy to QF?

Nope. My progression was A-4G, CT4 QFI, 747 SO. The very first time I ever flew a light twin was an assessment ride as part of QF recruitment.

What would the crew (tech and cabin) be for the empty A380 returning back from Azerbaijan?

Probably the same people who took the other aircraft up. So, most likely Captain, FO, 2 SOs, and 2 cabin crew.

Thanks, missed that thread. Out of interest, what are the crewing arrangements for the positioning flights between Sydney and Melbourne?

They were always a bit of ‘whatever’. Just a cold flight between the two would just be Captain and FO. Preflight took a bit longer, as we had to do a walk around back. The company loved them for route checks, so the very last one that I ever did was an FO‘s check, so we had an SCC with us as well. One of the nicest people I ever flew with.

 

[Flyerqf]

They were always a bit of ‘whatever’. Just a cold flight between the two would just be Captain and FO. Preflight took a bit longer, as we had to do a walk around back. The company loved them for route checks, so the very last one that I ever did was an FO‘s check, so we had an SCC with us as well. One of the nicest people I ever flew with.

I guess it’s more economical to do the checks on shorter sectors within Australia than on overseas sectors. Would that be the reason?
Do all positioning flights have cabin crew?

 

[flyer89]

The very first time I ever flew a light twin was an assessment ride as part of QF recruitment.

At what point during the assessment did the checkie realise you had never flown a light twin before?

 

[Quickstatus]

Apart from QF Baku there was also EK Narita

EK319 NRT-DXB on 23/12/22
It ran out of curfew time apparently arriving at runway at 00:02 local.

The NRT -DXB flight is 11:50hrs.
If allowed to takeoff at 00:02 crew hrs would be legal (+1:32 added to original departure time of 22:30).

However, they started disembarking at 02:30 and maybe completing disembarkation at 03:00 24/12/22 (after doing a meal service when back at the gate)

They finally departed at 16:02 that afternoon.

Could someone pls discuss the crew hrs implications