Ask The Pilot

[justinbrett]

Eventually this will cause a major safety issue (if it hasn't already), because of pilots missing something important throughout all the nonsense. A comprehensive web site on this topic: Death to Notams

It has been this way for as long as I can remember.

The problem is, every NOTAM is important to somebody. It's a question of filtering.

I used to check the FIR NOTAMs by typing in YBBB/YMMM etc until someone told me if you do it via area briefing, it will only show FIR NOTAMs within that area. Cut them down by 90%.

I don't really see a problem with aerodrome NOTAMs. Even for airports like SYD/MEL, there's not that many to go through. Again, each one is there for a reason.

Print out & Highlighter is my tip.

 

[RSD]

Singapore's Scoot Airbus A320-271N aircraft (9V-TNE) cabin faced battery fire (portable power bank) while taxiing for departure from Taipei (TPE) to Singapore (SIN) on 10th January. Fire was controlled to avoid any further damage as aircraft returned to gate and Flight TR993 was cancelled .

As expected, there was a lot of yelling (hopefully mostly by FA's in order to get the portable fire extinguisher from the galley past the passengers standing in the aisle). How would the pilots here have dealt with the advice from your FA's that there is smoke/fire onboard?

FL360aero on LinkedIn: Singapore's Scoot Airbus A320-271N aircraft (9V-TNE) cabin faced battery… | 32 comments

Singapore's Scoot Airbus A320-271N aircraft (9V-TNE) cabin faced battery fire (portable power bank) while taxiing for departure from Taipei (TPE) to Singapore… | 32 comments on LinkedIn

www.linkedin.com

Batteries are becoming a real hazard everywhere at the moment. Hopefully the new sodium batteries will be far more stable

 

[jb747]

I used to check the FIR NOTAMs by typing in YBBB/YMMM etc until someone told me if you do it via area briefing, it will only show FIR NOTAMs within that area. Cut them down by 90%.

I don't really see a problem with aerodrome NOTAMs. Even for airports like SYD/MEL, there's not that many to go through. Again, each one is there for a reason.

You've got about 70 pages to do, and about 10 minutes.

 

[justinbrett]

You've got about 70 pages to do, and about 10 minutes.

70 pages for aerodrome NOTAMS? I’d say 3 or 4 per field.

 

[jb747]

70 pages for aerodrome NOTAMS? I’d say 3 or 4 per field.

70 pages is the size of a recent long haul flight.

 

[justinbrett]

70 pages is the size of a recent long haul flight.

Including FIR?

 

[jb747]

Including FIR?

Yes, but you can't leave them all out, can you? It's actually the complete flight plan package, as delivered to the crew.

There were 216 individual airport specific items, relevant to the one flight. The departure and arrival airports had in the order of 20 each.

 

[RSD]

Yes, but you can't leave them all out, can you? It's actually the complete flight plan package, as delivered to the crew.

There were 216 individual airport specific items, relevant to the one flight. The departure and arrival airports had in the order of 20 each.

Sounds like a recipe for something important to get missed...

 

[justinbrett]

Yes, but you can't leave them all out, can you? It's actually the complete flight plan package, as delivered to the crew.

There were 216 individual airport specific items, relevant to the one flight. The departure and arrival airports had in the order of 20 each.

No but that was my point, it's more the FIR NOTAMs that cause the spamming rather than the aerodrome NOTAMs.

 

[jb747]

No but that was my point, it's more the FIR NOTAMs that cause the spamming rather than the aerodrome NOTAMs.

But, they’re relevant too, especially on flights that are going from Asia to Europe. Much of the irrelevance comes from airfield trivia. For instance, I don’t care about taxiways that aren’t available for my aircraft type, but if they’re listed I’ll have to check.

 

[exLXCXFF]

I was just watching the flight path of QF63 (SYD - JNB). Not much between Australia and Africa - what is the plan for diversions if something goes wrong? Are there any diversion points other than Mauritius/Reunion/Madagascar? If there is say a real cargo fire that you can’t extinguish onboard are you essentially skrewed if you are say mid flight?

 

[tgh]

Are there any diversion points other than Mauritius/Reunion/Madagascar

My dummies contribution says Antarctica…some decent airstrips
Each time I have flown this route we were right down near the ice and a long way from Reunion….

 

[Quickstatus]

Are there any diversion points other than Mauritius/Reunion/Madagascar?

Re I think SYD-SCL would be more anxiety provoking...
apart from SYD, NZ airports, SCL
Is PPT the only other alternate?

Answered my own question - there is IPC

 

[jb747]

I was just watching the flight path of QF63 (SYD - JNB). Not much between Australia and Africa - what is the plan for diversions if something goes wrong? Are there any diversion points other than Mauritius/Reunion/Madagascar? If there is say a real cargo fire that you can’t extinguish onboard are you essentially skrewed if you are say mid flight?

Without looking up the details…but from memory the fire suppression system works by completely discharging one bottle into the hold on activation, and then slowly discharging the next over a period of time. The next set of bottles will fire a set period of time after the first, or on landing, whichever happens first. I expect that would suppress a low level fire, but I’d have my doubts about anything like a battery fire.

Are there any diversion points other than Mauritius/Reunion/Madagascar

My dummies contribution says Antarctica…some decent airstrips
Each time I have flown this route we were right down near the ice and a long way from Reunion….

There is land/ice in Antartica, but not too many runways as we think of them. Yes, certainly possible though, and better than the sea.

There are a few reasons that I didn’t bid for any of the flights that went way down south. I only ever did one to South Africa, and never to South America. My comfort zone didn’t extend that far.

 

[RSD]

Without looking up the details…but from memory the fire suppression system works by completely discharging one bottle into the hold on activation, and then slowly discharging the next over a period of time. The next set of bottles will fire a set period of time after the first, or on landing, whichever happens first. I expect that would suppress a low level fire, but I’d have my doubts about anything like a battery fire.

The only reliable way it seems to extinguish a lithium ion battery is to submerse it in water - rather difficult if its in the cargo hold

 

[RSD]

There are a few reasons that I didn’t bid for any of the flights that went way down south. I only ever did one to South Africa, and never to South America. My comfort zone didn’t extend that far.

I never had a great desire to go to either of those, and you have lowered the desire even further now

Many many years ago I was finishing a job in Egypt and had plenty of time on my hands so did consider doing the classic Cairo to Capetown overland route then grabbing a Qantas flight from Joburg to Oz, but then I decided "nah - that's been done before - lets try to find something more original". Eventually after much pouring over maps I hitchhiked Cairo to Calcutta overland instead.

 

[Quickstatus]

extinguish a lithium ion battery is to submerse it in water -

What's the method to get it submerged. It there some kind of a pickup tool?

 

[RSD]

What's the method to get it submerged. It there some kind of a pickup tool?

 

[justinbrett]

But, they’re relevant too, especially on flights that are going from Asia to Europe. Much of the irrelevance comes from airfield trivia. For instance, I don’t care about taxiways that aren’t available for my aircraft type, but if they’re listed I’ll have to check.

I guess my original point was more if you're flying Brisbane to Sydney you don't really care about a crane near Perth.

 

[RSD]

What's the method to get it submerged. It there some kind of a pickup tool?

I don't know all the details but I've seen reports of U.S. firefighters having to resort to digging a big hole and filling it with water and then submerging Tesla's in it for up to a week. A lot of fire departments in the U.S. are now making stainless steel boxes to put escooters in when they catch fire and then fill with water. They have tried a lot of other extinguishing methods without success - foam, dry powder, CO2, even some of the exotic methods like hydrochem used for high pressure flammable liquid fires don't work. I haven't heard of any results with burying it with sand yet - that is one of the methods that often work with combustible metals that react with water when ignited.