Ask The Pilot

[Saab34]

There is no attempt to correct the aircraft drift prior to touchdown.

What are some of the techniques done to correct the drift?

This one is another interesting one. Is that the Pilot with the rudder at the 0.20 mark, or the FBW?

 

[jb747]

What are some of the techniques done to correct the drift?

In simple terms. Flare, with no correction for drift, until you have a descent rate that you could live with. Then, feed in rudder, aiming to remove half of the drift. End result is that you'll land before finishing removing the drift, but problem solved. It will be tidy enough.

If you end up flaring for long enough to cancel all of the drift, then the aircraft wil immediately start moving downwind. At that point the only possible way to counter the drift is with bank. But, the engines are close to the ground, and the control laws in roll are not helpful. So, taking it a bit further, you'll then need to re-establish the previous track, which means rudder in the 'wrong' direction. At this point you realise that you should have gone around about 20 seconds ago.

This one is another interesting one. Is that the Pilot with the rudder at the 0.20 mark, or the FBW?

Only one rudder panel. FBW, I think.

Many large aircraft have their rudder split into two panels. They'll be powered by different hydraulic system, and may also have different deflection ratios. In the 380, the FBW uses one section only for slideslip corrections, which can often be seen as rapid applications during approach in gusty conditions. This motion does not move the pedals in the coughpit, and is basically transparent to the pilots.

 

[TomJones]

There was an interesting Reuters article recently about United struggling with FOs being unwilling to upgrade to captaincy to the point that they're facing a shortage of captains. I'll link the article below, but it seems to partly be because more and more senior FOs are quite happy with the schedule and quality of life their seniority within the FO ranks affords, even relative to the extra money captaincy may pay.

I'm sure it's not a new thing, but do you feel this is getting more common post-covid?

Is there anything airlines can / do do to "nudge" FOs into the captain's chair who have decent seniority, or are there ways the seniority systems allows these issues to gradually normalise?

Focus: United Airlines grapples with pilots avoiding the captain's chair

Many pilots are turning down the captain's job as they do not want the unpredictable schedule that comes with the bigger paycheck.

www.reuters.com

 

[Flashback]

I did the Airbus facilities/factory tour in Toulouse earlier this week and they mentioned that training as a test pilot is quite a bit different to a 'regular' pilot and also that there's a much smaller number of schools that facilitate such training. Is that correct as far as you guys know?

 

[jb747]

There was an interesting Reuters article recently about United struggling with FOs being unwilling to upgrade to captaincy to the point that they're facing a shortage of captains. I'll link the article below, but it seems to partly be because more and more senior FOs are quite happy with the schedule and quality of life their seniority within the FO ranks affords, even relative to the extra money captaincy may pay.

Firstly there may not be any extra money in the promotion. There may be eventually, but the chances are that you'll have had to go to a smaller aircraft, on a lower pay scale to get the promotion slot. Straight away, without any issues of seniority, that almost certainly means a worse life style. You can't stay on the 'senior' aircraft that you may be on, because the slots there are wanted for the captains on the lessor aircraft looking to improve their lives. If they were to let the FO's have the slots on those senior aircraft, then they'd probably suffer a loss of captains from below. It's a queue. You can't jump it, but nothing stops you from standing still.

The issue is that the work and pay for these junior captains isn't particularly acceptable. They're being told that by these FOs. Solution is to fix the problem, not to find a stick.

Thinking about my own 767 command. Taking it probably cost me about $100,000 over the first five years. At the end of my 12 years there, I'd probably made that back, but I certainly wasn't ahead. The real killer though, was time off. The difference was dramatic. I'd need to go back through the rosters to be able to work it out exactly, but I do recall calculating that over the period I was on the 767 I had around a year less time at home vs the 747-400.

I'm sure it's not a new thing, but do you feel this is getting more common post-covid?

It's always happened. When I got my 767 command, I jumped about 40 other FOs who were senior to me, because, for lots of reasons, they didn't want to go to the 767 at that point. Some were hanging out for a 747-400 command (an avenue that QF closed) or 747 Classic. Some just waited a year or two, others never jumped. My guess is that 80% of the ones who didn't jump would have had issues and were better off staying in the right seat.

I don't know what effects covid had. Locally, a huge group of pilots retired, many years early, so in theory that should have opened up many slots. On the other hand, management used it as an opportunity to apply some pretty terrible EBAs, that I think will bite them in years to come, by making the entire career much less desirable.

Is there anything airlines can / do do to "nudge" FOs into the captain's chair who have decent seniority, or are there ways the seniority systems allows these issues to gradually normalise?

If nobody at all wants the seats, then I'm sure they could hire instant captains from outside. But, that's only if their applicable pay and conditions are such that an already qualified pilot would want them. I suspect they aren't, so it's basically a huge "own goal".

 

[jb747]

I did the Airbus facilities/factory tour in Toulouse earlier this week and they mentioned that training as a test pilot is quite a bit different to a 'regular' pilot and also that there's a much smaller number of schools that facilitate such training. Is that correct as far as you guys know?

There are about a dozen TP schools in the world. There's a list here: List of test pilot schools - Wikipedia

The students are already well qualified people, mostly from within the military. I'd expect that most of the AB people are ex French AF or navy. The airlines don't send people off to do this training, though I've met a few airline pilots with engineering degrees who (mistakenly) consider themselves to be in the same league. I've flown with quite a few. Generally they're very good pilots, but not necessarily aces. They are extremely analytical, and are masters at hitting data points. Consistency is a must for a TP.

Back around 2017, on a trip to LA, my FO was a warbird pilot and took us out to Chino. Whilst there, we ran into two blokes who were waiting for their broken Cessna to be fixed. A bunch of pilots together and we started talking aircraft. Turned out that the younger of the two was a USAF F15C pilot, who was now a TP on the F35. The older bloke was a bit coy about his position, but said he worked for Lockheed and was a retired TP, who had flown the F117 and the F22. Worked for Lockheed...he was the operations director for the Skunk Works. And yes, he'd flown the F22. He was the lead TP. Jim Brown...a TP god.

 

[flyer89]

I don't know what effects covid had. Locally, a huge group of pilots retired, many years early, so in theory that should have opened up many slots. On the other hand, management used it as an opportunity to apply some pretty terrible EBAs, that I think will bite them in years to come, by making the entire career much less desirable.

I’ve not seen it like this ever. I have no solutions to the problems and I don’t think management do either (if any exist).

I know of one bloke that called up VA and explained that he didn’t yet have the minimum requirements but could he go through the recruitment process anyway. They allowed it and he was successful. He will commence when he hits the minimum hour requirement. This is but one example.

 

[jb747]

They allowed it and he was successful.

Successful in the same way that Victoria got the Commonwealth Games?

 

[flyer89]

Successful in the same way that Victoria got the Commonwealth Games?

Very similar. They were most impressed with the fact he had a pulse.

 

[ayebee]

was skimming the YT video of Oshkosh

from about 1:40 there are waves of aircraft arriving which is interesting.
Apart from needing a high level of trust in those in front, beside and behind, I am wondering if these pilots need a special endorsement to be able to do formation flying like this ?

 

[jb747]

Apart from needing a high level of trust in those in front, beside and behind, I am wondering if these pilots need a special endorsement to be able to do formation flying like this ?

No idea. Pretty frightening to watch though.

 

[ayebee]

Pretty frightening to watch though.

& at 18:00 an L-39 jet arrives amongst the slower piston engines !

 

[Saab34]

I don’t think it’s formation it’s just very tight sequencing. YouTube ‘Oshkosh Landing Dot’ and you will get an idea, they have dots scattered at points down the runway and each aircraft needs to use that as the aiming point. Generally a couple landing at once for most of the day.

 

[kookaburra75]

was skimming the YT video of Oshkosh

from about 1:40 there are waves of aircraft arriving which is interesting.
Apart from needing a high level of trust in those in front, beside and behind, I am wondering if these pilots need a special endorsement to be able to do formation flying like this ?

It's Oshkosh. You can't compare it to anywhere else. I was lucky enough to experience it a lot of years ago, and it's heaven for GA pilots. Talking to friends in the ATC area, it's also considered the place to go to volunteer, so you can say you've been there.

 

[FrustratedQP]

They are almost exclusively Mooneys. Some sort of planned mass arrival???

 

[ayebee]

They are almost exclusively Mooneys. Some sort of planned mass arrival???

found this

https://www.mooneycaravan.com/web/Mooney/Pages/Oshkosh/Schedule.asp?Zr07Pyvpx=fpurq7yr%20n0q%20er37v4rzr065&Zr07TPyvpx=FDFG%20Pn4n8n0%2061%20bfU

& attending a practice session was a prerequisite .

https://www.mooneycaravan.com/web/Mooney/Pages/Registration/Clinics.asp

 

[flydoc]

Fog in LST this morning- not unusual this time of year, but why would JQ740 be held in SYD with pax not boarded “until the fog has started to lift” whereas JQ731 departed MEL as scheduled and got into LST OK

 

[jb747]

Fog in LST this morning- not unusual this time of year, but why would JQ740 be held in SYD with pax not boarded “until the fog has started to lift” whereas JQ731 departed MEL as scheduled and got into LST OK

Sure you have your numbers right? 740 is a LST to MEL flight in the afternoon.

 

[jb747]

Fog in LST this morning- not unusual this time of year, but why would JQ740 be held in SYD with pax not boarded “until the fog has started to lift” whereas JQ731 departed MEL as scheduled and got into LST OK

Ignoring the flight numbers...the fog forecast for Launceston had it appearing around 8am, and then hanging around for much of the day. So, if you were leaving and had an ETA that was 30 minutes prior to the onset, then...you're in luck. But, if your ETA was later, then you're going to need substantial hold, plus an alternate...and because the fog was actually there, then you'd just as likely end up at the alternate, which is an outcome that nobody wants.

The fact that somebody got in is irrelevant. The minima available at Launceston is 302' agl ....which is a long way from what you'll need in fog.

 

[justinbrett]

Assume you mean JQ475. Fair bit of time difference between those flights, the MEL flight was on the ground before the SYD flight even pushed back.