Ask The Pilot

DRW runway is not even close to flat.

It’s downhill from the RWY11 end but rises a bit about two thirds of the way along.

Putting it another way, it has a dip about one third of the way from the RWY29 threshold.

So my question is, which other fields have runways with either dip or notable gradients?
 
DRW runway is not even close to flat.

It’s downhill from the RWY11 end but rises a bit about two thirds of the way along.

Putting it another way, it has a dip about one third of the way from the RWY29 threshold.

So my question is, which other fields have runways with either dip or notable gradients?
DRW is absolutely a shocker but to a lesser extent LST would be next in my opinion.
 
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Why do some aircraft take an intersection departure, and others do not, especially for short flights specifically? Recently departing Newcastle, we (A320) departed from Hotel/Intersection, while I noted 2 E190s and a F100 before us, take the long taxi Hotel, down to A2, then full length departure. Another A320 after us also took the intersection, which is 2000m. Note all flights I mention above are only 1 hour in length.

Any reason why some opt for full length? Do some Captain’s refuse Intersections and prefer full length?

I’ve also noted this at Cairns, some backtrack, others don’t. In my Newcastle case, we were late, so not sure if lateness applies to any decision making in intersection departures.
 
DRW runway is not even close to flat.

It’s downhill from the RWY11 end but rises a bit about two thirds of the way along.

Putting it another way, it has a dip about one third of the way from the RWY29 threshold.

So my question is, which other fields have runways with either dip or notable gradients?
Dip - sounds almost like a ski jump ramp for Harriers!
 
Dip - sounds almost like a ski jump ramp for Harriers!

You can see it here (sort of) looking “down hill” on 11:

5890396444_0614ef7829_c.jpg

Photo credit: Michael Barritt.

And here which is the 29 end looking “up hill”:
1719660468890.jpeg

Whichever way you look at it, not flat!
 
DRW runway is not even close to flat.

It’s downhill from the RWY11 end but rises a bit about two thirds of the way along.

Putting it another way, it has a dip about one third of the way from the RWY29 threshold.

So my question is, which other fields have runways with either dip or notable gradients?
Dips and bumps are common, and especially noticeable on longer runways. The two that come to mind are Darwin and Manchester. In both cases, if you happened to land a little bit long, you could end up on the downwards slope, with the aircraft apparently floating downhill.

Melbourne 34/16 has an appreciable slope, so much so that you need to be aware of the tendency to float on 16, and crash in early on 34 (as the ground comes up to meet you). One degree is a huge amount when talking about approach angles and runway slope.
 
Why do some aircraft take an intersection departure, and others do not, especially for short flights specifically? Recently departing Newcastle, we (A320) departed from Hotel/Intersection, while I noted 2 E190s and a F100 before us, take the long taxi Hotel, down to A2, then full length departure. Another A320 after us also took the intersection, which is 2000m. Note all flights I mention above are only 1 hour in length.
There will be many factors, ranging from performance issues, and means of calculation, through ATC. Timing matters, not just for any delays, but also for being fitted into the sequence. An E190 (and F100) may well have completely different methods of calculating data, compared to the A320. I assume the 320 would have a variation of the performance software that we used on the 380. That was very flexible with regard to your runway length options. An older aircraft may not have such software, and could even still be doing it via paper, which makes changes much slower to accommodate.
Any reason why some opt for full length?
One of the most useless things in aviation is runway behind you. The fact that the aircraft are on flights of similar duration doesn’t tell us anything about their relative performance. A 320 flying for 3 hours is on a long trip, and might be reasonably heavy. A 380 on the same sector is on a flight that’s so short that it’s hardly worth pulling up the wheels, and would have a massive performance excess.
Do some Captain’s refuse Intersections and prefer full length?
It depends upon the reasons. I’m not generally going to accept a shorter runway for someone else’s convenience, especially if it involves the use of more power. But, if the performance is equal, then sure, why not?

So, now we’ll get to something that isn’t all that intuitive. A longer available length isn’t always better. When the Airbus application software works out the take off performance, it will consider various flap settings, in an effort to achieve the maximum engine derate. But, there is a maximum allowed level of derate (which I forget, but it’s something in the order of 70%). If you run the calculation for various taxiways there is no benefit in more runway beyond that which gives the max derate. Longer runway won’t necessarily increase the V1 speed (the speed we use for abort decisions). That’s basically because V1 is not actually the last speed at which we could stop (we neither calculate, nor consider that), but actually the first speed at which we could continue the takeoff after loss of an engine. It is almost always safer to continue into flight than it is to execute a high speed abort. V1 is calculated so that the distance required to achieve 35’ engine out, is the same as the distance required to stop. Runway beyond that point isn’t considered. Worth noting that in these calculations, it is not necessary to increase the power on the other engine(s) after the engine failure. The required performance will be achieved by leaving the remaining engines at the derated power setting. Of course you can push the power up (in most cases, but there is an exception) but that will increase any control issues without much benefit.

Whilst we’re on V1, there’s also a minimum V1. It varies with the aircraft type and will change with the derate. A greater derate (i.e. less power) should give a lower minimum (though it’s often arbitrarily fixed). That’s because at speeds below this figure you will not have enough rudder authority to overcome the asymmetric power. This is also the reason why some forms of derate mandate leaving the power as set, and not increasing it, after a failure.
 
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Many years ago I remember talking to some of the ex RAN A4 pilots who went onto work for Fleet Support Services guys (Gary Northern) who flew into NAS Nowra regularly. He said both RWY 21/03 and RWY 26/08 had some interesting dips in them. With a strong westerly the approach to RWY26 also had the added issue of windshear coming over the gulley. Apparently some Sea Venoms came to grief over the years....
 
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He's been in management for 20 years, but he (? still is?) a pilot. What do our pilots think?

New CEO OF Swiss Airlines

Fehlinger, who is 43, began his professional career in 2006 with the Lufthansa Group, and went on to hold a range of management positions including Head of Corporate Airline Strategy & Business Development for Lufthansa Airlines and Head of Operations Performance Management & Analytics for the Lufthansa Group.

He also holds an airline transport pilot’s licence, and serves as a pilot on the Lufthansa CityLine Airbus A320-family fleet.
 
Many years ago I remember talking to some of the ex RAN A4 pilots who went onto work for Fleet Support Services guys (Gary Northern) who flew into NAS Nowra regularly. He said both RWY 21/03 and RWY 26/08 had some interesting dips in them. With a strong westerly the approach to RWY26 also had the added issue of windshear coming over the gulley. Apparently some Sea Venoms came to grief over the years....
I don't know about Sea Venoms, but one RAAF Caribou came a cropper on 26. If you look at the satellite view on Google maps you'll see that the threshold is slightly displaced, and there's also been a large about of earth forming done into the valley short of the runway. I recall that it had a good suck if the wind was from the right direction, but I don't think it was an issue, even in the Macchi. The A-4 certainly didn't care.

The Caribou tale goes back a long way to around the time that they were new. And this was before the earthworks in the valley. Apparently they decided to show the navy what a real STOL landing looked like. It probably would have been impressive anyway, but, alas the windshear caught them and they touched down very short, and extremely hard. Hard enough to punch the gear through the wings. The story has it that ATC told them that it was impressive, and asked them to do it again. Many years later when a new QF SO, I flew with an FO, who turned out to have been on that flight...but he wasn't very keen on telling any of the details.
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He's been in management for 20 years, but he (? still is?) a pilot. What do our pilots think?

New CEO OF Swiss Airlines
Given how appalling most of the business types seem to be, he probably deserves a chance. Not all of the management pilots are company drones.
 
LCDR Fred Goodfellow in 1969.... his children went through school in Nowra at the same time I did. A good guy. Went on to be a lawyer....

I was serving there that year, running the Accounts Office as a POWTR, and remember that well. Immediately after the accident, there was a broadcast on the base PA system asking for blood donors. Served there again in 1975 as a Chief...
 
LCDR Fred Goodfellow in 1969.... his children went through school in Nowra at the same time I did. A good guy. Went on to be a lawyer....
I knew of that event, but it's a different mechanism to the 'suck' at the end of 26. One puts you in short of the runway, whilst Fred ended up at the other side of the base in the trees. I wonder if he'd have been any better off if he'd ejected, as the seats of the day were pretty limited.

In a similar time frame, I saw the aftermath (by seconds) of another navy accident at Laverton. In that case, a Vampire was taking off and had an engine failure. Too slow/low to eject. It hit some of the gear by the railway line and that pitched it down, basically removing the fuselage back to leading edge. And the wreckage ended upon on the eastbound side of the freeway. I was in the school bus coming home, on the other side of the road. In ADF serials under A79-837 or N6-837.
 
I was serving there that year, running the Accounts Office as a POWTR, and remember that well. Immediately after the accident, there was a broadcast on the base PA system asking for blood donors. Served there again in 1975 as a Chief...
In 1975 I was there, initially on 725, then 817.
 

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