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@jb747 where an international flight has been without crew during the turn-around (say, at the overseas port), is there any rule at QF or perhaps more generally, that the cabin crew don't go aboard before the flight deck crew? A couple of times recently I've seen the cabin crew arrive, and appear to wait at the gate until at least one of the flight deck members arrive.

Also, is the flight deck door locked during the vacated turn-around time (in which case maintenance bods would have the codes)?
 
@jb747 where an international flight has been without crew during the turn-around (say, at the overseas port), is there any rule at QF or perhaps more generally, that the cabin crew don't go aboard before the flight deck crew? A couple of times recently I've seen the cabin crew arrive, and appear to wait at the gate until at least one of the flight deck members arrive.
The cabin crew don't have to wait for the pilots before they can board. Procedures may well differ with other airlines, and airports, customs, and security can throw their own rules into the mix.
Also, is the flight deck door locked during the vacated turn-around time (in which case maintenance bods would have the codes)?
Probably best if we don't discuss the doors.
 
Just up here between US / Canadian North West and Nort East Coast. Travelled from Seattle - Vancouver - Toronto - NYC. The OAT on the ground varied from -20C - 0C with Snow, Sleet and Rain. Flown on a number of Alaskan Embraer 175L's and the 737 Max's. Apart from the de-icing procedures used in Toronto what other considerations need to be taken into account when taxiing, take-off, landing in these sorts of conditions? For example we were taxiing at Seattle to head to Vancouver and I noticed the engine power seemed to be significantly higher than normal with the brakes being consistently used to slow the aircraft down throughout the taxi. This happened again on landing into Vancouver and then again in Toronto and JFK. Another difference was when we lined up for take-off the power was bought up to high power but we held position for 5-10 seconds before getting underway into the take-off roll.

Are there special procedures used across Boeing / Airbus / Embraer for extreme cold conditions? Are these practiced in the SIM or just something that has to be done when the OAT is below are certain number?
 
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Just up here between US / Canadian North West and Nort East Coast. Travelled from Seattle - Vancouver - Toronto - NYC. The OAT on the ground varied from -20C - 0C with Snow, Sleet and Rain. Flown on a number of Alaskan Embraer 175L's and the 737 Max's. Apart from the de-icing procedures used in Toronto what other considerations need to be taken into account when taxiing, take-off, landing in these sorts of conditions? For example we were taxiing at Seattle to head to Vancouver and I noticed the engine power seemed to be significantly higher than normal with the brakes being consistently used to slow the aircraft down throughout the taxi. This happened again on landing into Vancouver and then again in Toronto and JFK. Another difference was when we lined up for take-off the power was bought up to high power but we held position for 5-10 seconds before getting underway into the take-off roll.

Are there special procedures used across Boeing / Airbus / Embraer for extreme cold conditions? Are these practiced in the SIM or just something that has to be done when the OAT is below are certain number?
There are entire chapters in the manuals on cold weather procedures. They are practiced in the sim exercises (predictably in the sessions just prior to northern winter for us). There are limitations on the condition of the runway, allowed contamination on the aircraft, de-icing requirements. When, and how to use the aircraft anti icing system. Take off and landing performance data changes. Taxiing out, the flaps will probably be left retracted until near the runway, and after landing they may not be retracted (all to do with slush in the flap tracks). Engines will require periodic run-ups to a nominated rpm for a set period, for fan ice removal. This is what you would have seen on the runway. You wouldn’t normally do it whilst moving on the taxiway, but will be required every now and then. You should stop for this, though. I can’t give you any of the exact numbers, as I’m not home at the moment, but I’m sure you get the idea.
 
Here's some food for thought.

Last night, a house about a block away burnt down. I just so happens that it's in the field of view of one my cameras. From the first puff of smoke, to the fire brigade having water on the house was an impressive 10 minutes. Nevertheless, it's a complete loss. The cause is believed to have been a battery powered lawn mower, presumably charging in the garage.

It started with quite a loud bang, like a centrefire rifle. Within one minute there was heavy black smoke. At around five minutes large flames could be seen (from the next block). After 10 minutes the garage roof collapsed.

Now, think about these things on aircraft, both as part of the aircraft equipment (787) or as passenger carried devices.
 
Now, think about these things on aircraft, both as part of the aircraft equipment (787) or as passenger carried devices.
Aren't the batteries in the 787 in a fire proof container. These lithium batteries are quite scary, a fire officer friend says never leave them once they are charged. Always disconnect them after charging
 
Aren't the batteries in the 787 in a fire proof container. These lithium batteries are quite scary, a fire officer friend says never leave them once they are charged. Always disconnect them after charging
I don't know that I'd call it fire proof. Resistant for sure, but that's a stop gap after the original unprotected installation. And the loss of the battery would probably present a number of unknowns. There are other lithium batteries that are smaller, but without the same protection. This wasn't a big battery in comparison. The smoke alone is something I wouldn't want to deal with.

Initial bang. 5 mins. 10 min.

Screenshot 2025-02-26 at 14.14.37.pngScreenshot 2025-02-26 at 14.16.14.pngScreenshot 2025-02-26 at 14.17.34.png
 
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Now, think about these things on aircraft, both as part of the aircraft equipment (787) or as passenger carried devices.
I have been researching this as I help manage the safety management system on a sailing vessel that travels offshore. We decided to get an F-500 fire extinguisher which if used immediately, should help reduce the risk of thermal runaway in lithium-ion battery fires. We also educated our crew on the importance of using water to fight these fires (either putting the device in water, or spraying with a water fire hose). Some people will shy away from using water, thinking that it's an "electrical" fire, but the risk of shock is low and the risk of death from allowing the fire to continue is much higher, and only water can remove heat and prevent thermal runaway (the F-500 fire extinguisher is water-based with additives).

Still, we have no good solution for the smoke other than ventilation, which is only helpful for very small amounts and can make things worse if/when the fire expands to other materials.

The following document, published by the US FAA, was particularly instructive. I hope something similar is being incorporated into crew training in Australia. https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_120-80B.pdf
 
The battery is contained in an explosion proof enclosure. It is what is referred to as Exd it contains the explosion using what is called a flame path that causes the flame to cool so that there is insufficient energy to create an issue. Whilst it's works there are issues around the correct maintenance and installation. All things being equal it is a valid way of ensuring safety is maintained.
 
I never followed up on anything with the 787, as I felt I was safely ensconced over in the big AB. As I remember it, one the iterations of the design was a box with burn through more or less allowed on the side attached to the outer skin of the aircraft. I guess that would stop it getting into the aircraft, but at the loss of the entire emergency electrical system, and any ramifications that might have. Apparently it was all to save the weight of a RAT, which surely can’t have weighed any more….
 
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There are entire chapters in the manuals on cold weather procedures. They are practiced in the sim exercises (predictably in the sessions just prior to northern winter for us). There are limitations on the condition of the runway, allowed contamination on the aircraft, de-icing requirements. When, and how to use the aircraft anti icing system. Take off and landing performance data changes. Taxiing out, the flaps will probably be left retracted until near the runway, and after landing they may not be retracted (all to do with slush in the flap tracks). Engines will require periodic run-ups to a nominated rpm for a set period, for fan ice removal. This is what you would have seen on the runway. You wouldn’t normally do it whilst moving on the taxiway, but will be required every now and then. You should stop for this, though. I can’t give you any of the exact numbers, as I’m not home at the moment, but I’m sure you get the idea.
Not sure if this is related. I recall being onboard a QF747-ER at DFW back in August 2012. This was in the day where the 747-ERs did the QF7 SYD-DFW leg then did the return as QF8 DFW-BNE-SYD. The weather in DFW was coughpy with storms rolling through delaying the departure of the flight. After 2-3 hours on the ground letting the storms pass we were about to get underway but after another 45 minutes delay we were offloaded and ended up in hotels overnight in Dallas. We were told this was necessitated by the crew being out of hours if they proceeded with the flight.

On arriving into back into Australia 18hrs+ later the media ran an article saying there was a disagreement between the Captain and one of the SO's surrounding the take-off parameters and whether the runway was contaminated or not. Not sure whether there was any substance to the media report but it definitely was a PITA to overnight in Dallas.
 
Here's some food for thought.

The cause is believed to have been a battery powered lawn mower, presumably charging in the garage.
Li-Ion batteries are becoming a real menace. And they don't have to be on charge to ignite - there is a fairly well reported incident in South Korea involving a Mercedes EV about 6-8 months ago where the Merc was parked in an underground car park below an apartment block, it wasn't being charged but it suddenly just ignited and the fire took out a heap of other cars in the car park as well - something like 50 cars from vague memory.

The CCTV shows the car igniting, and also showed that the car hadn't been driven or charged for at least four hours. I think that it would be a reasonable to think that Mercedes would be well on top of their battery supply chain quality and testing and so forth so it goes to show that even quality Li-Ion batteries can ignite - even when not being charged.

I'm currently involved in a project where we need to keep divers warm during their 2.5 hours of decompression stops, and so are looking at battery powered heated undersuits under their drysuits etc. I am very much leaning towards using Nimh batteries instead of Li Ion batteries - safer when on land - and I would prefer not to have a battery cook off while attached to a diver underwater either as the diver can't simply surface due to the decompression obligation.

Coming are sodium-ion batteries - these are supposed to have less risks associated with them, but time will tell.
 
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