ATO (tax office) payments by credit card

[hossein_au]

Agree, not even at 2c, unless we are referring to LM or AA or USDM, but those are in USD.

QFF/KF/AM all sell at well over 4c each at limited quantity.

Yes, that is exactly whom I was referring to. I wrote "...say, 1 or 2 cents apiece...". Converted to USD, that would be "...say, 1.2 or 2.4 cents apiece..." The point I was trying to make still stands I think.

 

[VAG newbie]

I used the Amex via DEFT for body corp fees when Westpac had double points promo but not any more.

3 bank points per dollar reduces to 1.5 airline points and personally while I can get a lot of free or 0.5-1 c/ point points I don't think 2 c per point is worth it. Some do though and it depends what you redeem it for

When Westpac had their double point promo and the price came down to 1c it was worth it for me

I reckon 2c/point is still worth it for KF or AM, especially if you redeem business/first class. But not for QF or VA points.

 

[VAG newbie]

Yes, that is exactly who I was referring to. I wrote "...say, 1 or 2 cents apiece...". Converted to USD, that would be "...say, 1.2 or 2.4 cents apiece..." The point I was trying to make still stands I think.

Even those programs don't sell at 1c a piece. More like 2.1c = 2.4-2.4c AUD.

But we can't compare with US. Everything is cheaper there compare to Australia. So I wouldn't be surprised that airlines charge more than twice here than US

 

[prozac]

DEFT payment systems, Can I earn 3points by using Amex altitude black ? amex surchage is 3.3% not sure if its worth it or not.

im paying body corporate bill ( investment property ), these surchage is tax deductible.

worth it or not ? what guys reckon

Don't get caught up in the hype, 3 points on Alt Black is really 1.5 points effectively with conversion rate of 2:1. You are paying 2.2c a real point. Most here won't pay more than 1c/pt.
I grit my teeth every time I pay body corporate fees by direct debit. :evil:

Edit: Vag's figures are more on the money than mine. I still wouldn't pay that rate to earn points.

 

[cove]

If you are looking at saving rather than spending and you are short of a small but critical number of points/miles then you can make an exception on cents cost for those. Let's say you are short 20,000 points then paying say $400 could work provided the redemption booking saves you more. Many of us look for 3 to 10 cents retail value for pointy end travel.

 

[hossein_au]

Even those programs don't sell at 1c a piece. More like 2.1c = 2.4-2.4c AUD.

But we can't compare with US. Everything is cheaper there compare to Australia. So I wouldn't be surprised that airlines charge more than twice here than US

It was just some musing on my part... thanks for all the contributions and different points of view(s). Back to my usual contemplating mode...

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

no points bonus with the HSBC Rewards plus card
20000 sign up bonus with the Qantas card

What I am referring to is the 80000 points I will get each year for paying my 80000 tax bill
Ie.
Is 80000 qantas points + 2 qantas club invites worth paying $199 annual fee over the 80,000 HSBC points(non qantas) with no annual fee

I think on the HSBC rewards program - 20,000 points = $100 gift card

HSBC non QF points transfer to other programs at half rate (kris flyer, asia miles, etc)

 

[nutwood]

Surely it would depend on what you are using your points for? I've always valued a FF point at $0.01. Seem to work for straight flights. A 12,000 point flight can probably be picked up for $120 if you look hard. Upgrades is another story though!

 

[VAG newbie]

Surely it would depend on what you are using your points for? I've always valued a FF point at $0.01. Seem to work for straight flights. A 12,000 point flight can probably be picked up for $120 if you look hard. Upgrades is another story though!

But if you choose the right program, 80000 points can get you $6000-7000 flight, easily.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Surely it would depend on what you are using your points for? I've always valued a FF point at $0.01. Seem to work for straight flights. A 12,000 point flight can probably be picked up for $120 if you look hard. Upgrades is another story though!

Domestic economy redemptions are the worst possible value IMHO.

 

[angusburns]

But even redeeming for domestic economy is not as bad as redeeming points at the Qantas/Cathay/Singapore Airlines etc shop...

 

[VAG newbie]

Domestic economy redemptions are the worst possible value IMHO.

Agree. The points are only of value if redeem premium cabin. I recently just flew JAL first class SYD-NRT rt for 120k Asia Miles from CC earning. That retails for well over $10k. So almost 10c/point.

 

[nutwood]

Domestic economy redemptions are the worst possible value IMHO.

That seems reasonable because they are also the most straightforward for most people. I'm in Tasmania and I won't use FF points for MEL, but I will for PER. My principal use though would have to be upgrades. Nice comfortable seat on a flight home, even if I am squeezed into a Dash 8 across the Strait!
Be very interested to hear other suggestions, bearing in mind I generally only move within Australia

 

[nutwood]

Agree. The points are only of value if redeem premium cabin. I recently just flew JAL first class SYD-NRT rt for 120k Asia Miles from CC earning. That retails for well over $10k. So almost 10c/point.

The question that leaps out is whether you'd have paid $10K for the trip? If so, you've had your 8.3c worth. If not, you then have to do the sum as to what you valued the trip at versus what it cost to accumulate the points. That's a personal evaluation but I'd be fascinated to know the general opinion. My 1c for 1 point has kept me content when I have had to make a spot decision as to how to pay but recently it's become 3c for 2 points, unless I use Amex, and the sums have got harder!

 

[VAG newbie]

The question that leaps out is whether you'd have paid $10K for the trip? If so, you've had your 8.3c worth. If not, you then have to do the sum as to what you valued the trip at versus what it cost to accumulate the points. That's a personal evaluation but I'd be fascinated to know the general opinion. My 1c for 1 point has kept me content when I have had to make a spot decision as to how to pay but recently it's become 3c for 2 points, unless I use Amex, and the sums have got harder!

I would never fork out $10k for such a trip but that doesn't mean I don't want to fly first class. Unfortunately there is no cheaper way of doing it. So regardless of how much I value the trip it is still, objectively, $10k's worth. So for 2c a points, I would say $2400 is still a good value.

I know some people would rather save money on airfares and spend more on their holiday and would never pay $2400 for first class. Nothing wrong with that. But if that's the case I would not pay anything for the points. It would be much better value to buy the cheapest ticket outright.

I won't even consider toasters or plasma TVs by using CC points. It's outright rip off.

 

[bbqwer]

sorry guys, but how do you guys value or calculate the point ?

 

[angusburns]

You value a point at the cost to acquire, and then at the value to burn. Then divide burn value / cost value to give you your yield.

Hard to value cost to acquire as some may be with no CC surcharge, some with 0.5%-2% CC surcharge. So lots of people use 1c/$ as a rough cost or worse/maximum cost value, as it makes the sums really easy.

In real life, when paying ATO with ANZ Black FF Visa, cost is 0.42% for 0.75, or 0.56c per point which I round down to 0.5c per point as I also have lots of expenses that attract no CC surcharge.

eg. A few years ago I bought my wife a business ticket SYD-LHR return for about 225k points on Singapore + $1.5k taxes. Retail was $8.5k, take off the taxes on both fares and you have 225k points = $7k or about 3c value per point burnt. Cost per point was about 0.5c so got 6x cost value or yield. Or that is how I do it, anyway.

When I do the calcs, I view it as paying a bit more than economy for a business class seat, eg SYD-LHR rtn $1,125+$1,500 = $2,625 v $1,600 for a Qantas economy seat, which is how I justify it to myself - I may be deluded, but I enjoy the almost 50 hours in business for the cost of an extra $1k return, or $20/hour.

Hope this helps.

 

[andye]

The way I value a flight redemption is either:

Retail
(Cost of retail flight MINUS Taxes on reward flight) DIVIDED BY (Points for redemption PLUS Points you would have earned on retail flight)

Realistic
(What you would be prepared to pay in cash for redemption flight MINUS Taxes on Reward Flight) DIVIDED BY (Points for redemption PLUS Points you would have earned on retail flight)


There are a few other intangibles like no status credits (or ~ ) on reward flights, restricted ability to choose preferred dates on award flights and (on the other hand) that a reward seat is frequently more flexible than a retail flight in a low fare bucket

 

[andye]

Another (fairly) intangible thing in favour of redemptions is that in many FF programmes one-ways are only half the cost of returns which is rarely the case with retail fares

 

[bbqwer]

You value a point at the cost to acquire, and then at the value to burn. Then divide burn value / cost value to give you your yield.

Hard to value cost to acquire as some may be with no CC surcharge, some with 0.5%-2% CC surcharge. So lots of people use 1c/$ as a rough cost or worse/maximum cost value, as it makes the sums really easy.

In real life, when paying ATO with ANZ Black FF Visa, cost is 0.42% for 0.75, or 0.56c per point which I round down to 0.5c per point as I also have lots of expenses that attract no CC surcharge.

eg. A few years ago I bought my wife a business ticket SYD-LHR return for about 225k points on Singapore + $1.5k taxes. Retail was $8.5k, take off the taxes on both fares and you have 225k points = $7k or about 3c value per point burnt. Cost per point was about 0.5c so got 6x cost value or yield. Or that is how I do it, anyway.

When I do the calcs, I view it as paying a bit more than economy for a business class seat, eg SYD-LHR rtn $1,125+$1,500 = $2,625 v $1,600 for a Qantas economy seat, which is how I justify it to myself - I may be deluded, but I enjoy the almost 50 hours in business for the cost of an extra $1k return, or $20/hour.

Hope this helps.

In saying this, is that mean using amex altitute black 1.45% is better value ? my calculation 10,000 x 1.45% = $145 / 7500 KF = 2cents / point ? correct me if im wrong.