ATO warns business owner over loyalty points from cards

[Nutcase]

The thing you call shouting that isn't.

Right. Well that makes more sense now.

 

[serfty]

Bolding is making a strong point.

In BB land going back decades, ALL CAPS IS CONSIDERED "SHOUTING".

Bolding was a fancy and expensive thing to have back then. (I also remember a time when having the choice of upper or lower case was 'fancy'.)

 

[Nutcase]

Take a chill pill.
Not everything you read in the paper is true.
At the most a bit of kite flying by the ATO.
I'll have stopped travelling by the time this gets through if ever.

We had moved on to the topic of when points have value. The proposal was that points have no value until they are redeemed which is the opposite of how money works.

 

[Nutcase]

Bolding is making a strong point.

In BB land going back decades, ALL CAPS IS CONSIDERED "SHOUTING".

Bolding was a fancy and expensive thing to have back then. (I also remember a time when having the choice of upper or lower case was 'fancy'.)

I cant hear you over all the shouting and strong points being made. If feels like one of those interviews on CNN or Fox news when all the parties shout over the top of each other trying to make a point.

 

[ajd]

About 99% give or take 1 %

I'd suggest that while it's substantial and the programs wouldn't want to lose it - enough to damage any prospects of spinning off or listing a FF program - it's probably nowhere near that high

 

[Nutcase]

I'd suggest that while it's substantial and the programs wouldn't want to lose it - enough to damage any prospects of spinning off or listing a FF program - it's probably nowhere near that high

Oh. OK then.

 

[drron]

We had moved on to the topic of when points have value. The proposal was that points have no value until they are redeemed which is the opposite of how money works.

So how much are Alitalia points worth right now?
How much are QFF points worth to you.I would hazard a guess that would be different to my value.

And say this does get up and you are taxed on the ATO guess as to value and then the program is drastically "enhanced".You get a tax deduction due to the loss of value?
In reality the only time you can reliably determine the value of points is when they are redeemed.You could say something like flybuys points value can be calculated-virtually always 0.5 cents.But then what proportion of flybuys points are earnt in the course of business.I would venture well under 50%.I doubt the ATO would want to go there.

Points are totally different to money-if you die the points you have are worth zero,money would still have value.

 

[Nutcase]

So how much are Alitalia points worth right now?
How much are QFF points worth to you.I would hazard a guess that would be different to my value.

And say this does get up and you are taxed on the ATO guess as to value and then the program is drastically "enhanced".You get a tax deduction due to the loss of value?
In reality the only time you can reliably determine the value of points is when they are redeemed.You could say something like flybuys points value can be calculated-virtually always 0.5 cents.But then what proportion of flybuys points are earnt in the course of business.I would venture well under 50%.I doubt the ATO would want to go there.

Points are totally different to money-if you die the points you have are worth zero,money would still have value.

Ok, Then just tax the benefit when it is taken/redeemed.

I think thats what the ATO is getting at. You earn the points from business spend, and spend the points on leisure travel. That is therefore a fringe benefit and subject to FBT.

It makes sense.

There is also evidence that the ATO use social media to check the legitimacy of returns. Its a logical extension to apply the same rigour to facebook posts of premium travel/hotels and high points earn without commensurate personal income.

ATO uses Facebook to spy on taxpayers suspected of filing dodgy returns

 

[burmans]

So, they do have value.

This is the whole point of having them and why the ATO are considering the taxable status of them.

Its a bit like saying that money has no value until you spend it.

Except this isn't about money, we are talking about fringe benefits tax and there has to be a benefit before its taxed.

 

[Isochronous]

No many would be celebrating this news. The ATO trying to tax points is yet another example of the hideous socialist disease which is destroying Australia.

Anyone who wants to work hard or succeed in life should consider their options for moving overseas ASAP.

 

[theblank]

There is also evidence that the ATO use social media to check the legitimacy of returns. Its a logical extension to apply the same rigour to facebook posts of premium travel/hotels and high points earn without commensurate personal income.

Not a surprise at all that they would do this. There is very little difference between that and the auditor parking his car outside the fish and chip shop and counting customers, or outside the taxpayers house making observations.
I know my parents were audited when I was a kid, and the auditor knew what sport we all played. How they could have known that without following us around beats me. I am sure they would still do this to some degree, and obviously Facebook makes it easier.

 

[Nutcase]

Except this isn't about money, we are talking about fringe benefits tax and there has to be a benefit before its taxed.

The fringe benefit is not cash - its a non cash benefit but has value. The value is taxed.

If you were given a business class trip to new York for a vacation by your employer, that would be a fringe benefit and taxed.

If points were used to pay for that, and those points were gained through business spend then we have a fringe benefit and a taxable item.

 

[Nutcase]

Not many would be celebrating this news. The ATO trying to tax points is yet another example of the hideous socialist disease which is destroying Australia.

Anyone who wants to work hard or succeed in life should consider their options for moving overseas ASAP.

No need to be so glum chum. It's just a tax on fringe benefits like any other. Pretty standard fare by world standards. Hard work has no bearing on this. Earning points on business spend and using those points for personal benefit is very transparent and easily proven.

This is why I avoid posting too much personal stuff on social media especially bragging about premium travel or gaining points through rorting loopholes and the like. No judgement on those who do, just best to keep it private. You never know who lurks on these forums and how small this community in Australia is.

 

[opusman]

Put the OP on your ignore list like I have, makes AFF much more pleasant

 

[Nutcase]

Put the OP on your ignore list like I have, makes AFF much more pleasant

Thats so disappointing. Alternative views should be encouraged and cultivated. Who knows, you might learn something.

If we just sit around agreeing with each other then it would get awfully boring and dull and no one wants that now do they?

 

[Nutcase]

I know my parents were audited when I was a kid, and the auditor knew what sport we all played. How they could have known that without following us around beats me. I am sure they would still do this to some degree, and obviously Facebook makes it easier.

There was a story about ATO investigators going to local football matches to check on the use of "commercial" vehicles being misrepresented.

ATO cracks down on utes after helping make Hilux a best seller

 

[N860CR]

Thats so disappointing. Alternative views should be encouraged and cultivated. Who knows, you might learn something.

If we just sit around agreeing with each other then it would get awfully boring and dull and no one wants that now do they?

Totally agree. These poor, community serving big banks have been ripped off by consumers for far too long. It's time CBA, WBC etc stood up for themselves and told these horrible everyday Australians to get stuffed

 

[Nutcase]

Totally agree. These poor, community serving big banks have been ripped off by consumers for far too long. It's time CBA, WBC etc stood up for themselves and told these horrible everyday Australians to get stuffed

You should try working for them!

 

[lovetravellingoz]

You should try working for them!

The People.....or The Banks...

 

[Deleted member]

I think the ATO would be better off looking into "Real" tax avoidance , which costs the country Billions every year.