Award booking cancelled without notice

[MEL_Traveller]

I did not recall reading that QF had offered SYD-DXB-DOH .... on the date in question.

Of course pweeks clearly would like the QR 380 experience he booked and paid (points) for and which QF confirmed at the time.....

IIRC QF has been able to confirm DOH-JRO, and the DXB-DOH sector shouldn't be that hard to confirm. QF can also release inventory into award space. Putting those together is an immediate solution. Of course it is the OP's choice as to whether they want to take that or potentially end up with something even less ideal in terms of dates or routing.

 

[RichardMEL]

IIRC QF has been able to confirm DOH-JRO, and the DXB-DOH sector shouldn't be that hard to confirm. QF can also release inventory into award space. Putting those together is an immediate solution. Of course it is the OP's choice as to whether they want to take that or potentially end up with something even less ideal in terms of dates or routing.

You're no doubt right, but the fact still remains that this is a problem of QF's creation, not of the customer. Why should the customer,then, settle for something to which he did not sign up for when he booked the ticket, and received a confirmed(so he felt) booking and paid the appropriate price for it (in this case, points). To me, he agreed to a contact with QF (these things are supposed to work both ways ) when he booked and paid, and through no fault of his own, and no change on QR's part (ie: schedule) he has, currently, lost what he ordered. Sure he could cancel his booking and do something else, but I still contend that the OP shouldn't HAVE to change what he booked because QF screwed it up.

I suppose, strictly speaking, one could argue that the booking was for transportation between SYD and JRO and specifics of the transportation are not guaranteed, and if QF decides to put him on SYD-DXB-JRO or SYD-ADL-DOH-JRO they should be able to, but one also has to consider the original schedule that the OP ordered when he booked (so going round-about may not work) and also a factor has to be that the OP clearly wanted to try QR 380 in J. I can see both sodes of if QF is obligated to provide him with travel on QR in J on the 380 SYD-DOH-JRO or not - that gets a bit murky - but the spirit of the transaction should be honoured IMHO.

It's one thing if you have flights booked and the airline makes an a/c or product sub for operational reasons. You have to suck it up or find an alternative on the day. This is not that situation. QF admits they screwed up, but they seem to be not exactly going out of their way to make this right (again, this is not about the actions of individual CSRs here, but the process).

I just find it a very poor customer service situation by QF as reported (and to be fair, we only have one side of this to go on but I have no reason to doubt the OP).

Sure, QR can be difficult to deal with I believe (I have a good mate who worked at a senior level for them and Al Baker and has some stories ) but at the end of the day this is not really about QR and their policies, this is about a failure at QF. They need to own this. It almost seems like they hope it will resolve by either the OP accepting an alternate that may not suit, or hoping multiple SSR's to QR will get the inventory back and it will all go away.

I keep thinking of this situation as reported and my own role in my job where part of it involves supporting customers of one sort or another. Frankly if I caused a screw up in a system or something, or was requied to respond to or resolve one that I was responsible for, it's for me to liase with the affected client and customer and let them know what is going on, expected time frame - and to keep them updated as things progress (and yes, I've even sent people messages to say basically "we're still working on this issue, we have no ETA yet but we're working on it" - far from perfect, but at least the customer hopefully understands through that that that I, as representative of my employer, or the guy working on it, gives a cough and is being responsible enough to keep them in the loop. No way would I say "hey you drop me a line in a few days and I'll let you know" - that seems like horrendous customer service to me.

I don't want to harp on at QF about this, but the reality is that this is part of a bigger flaw that so MANY PNRs wind up in the manual far queue and this is an extreme example of the effects of this. QF should be working to resolve the overall issue as much as they should be working to resolve this particular situation. I find it mind boggling that this continues to happen as has been a known issue for years now.

but given that it is, own it, and you manage it appropriately. As I posted before this is now a situation of service recovery, and QF is doing a poor effort - because even if QR are being difficult about the inventory and other options are difficult, I bet if there was person X assigned to see this issue through contacted the OP at regular intervals to update them, that would do far more to make them feel like a valued customer and that QF wants to resolve this issue than basically fobbing them off more or less "call back in a few days, or a few weeks" - really? I'd probably have managers belting me around the years if I said that to a customer!

I do feel a bit passionate about this I must admit

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Why should the customer,then, settle for something to which he did not sign up for when he booked the ticket...

Two parts to this. (a) the OP didn't get what they signed up for and (b) stress levels post incident.

Choosing the QF option doesn't achieve a QR flight, but it would remove the frustration.

 

[RichardMEL]

Two parts to this. (a) the OP didn't get what they signed up for and (b) stress levels post incident.

Choosing the QF option doesn't achieve a QR flight, but it would remove the frustration.

of course.

My main point was that this is not a choice/option the OP should be having to have. Once the ticket is bought and booking confirmed the internal issues within QF or between QF and QR (or anyone else) shouldn't be the problem or issue for the customer to worry about.

 

[Inuniform]

Latest update to this ongoing saga.

I rang QF today to add extra tentative booking's to my trip due to award seats becoming available. I spoke to a CSR and after a short explanation from me and a quick read of the notes attached to my booking number, the CSR put me on hold to get to the bottom of things for me. She returned to the line shortly after and explained that she was waiting to talk to the person in charge of my case and that QF would call me back. I received a call back around 15 minutes later and was greeted by a Premium Services representative who was now personally in charge of my booking. She explained that it did not look like QR would honour my original booking of SYD-DOH-JRO and onto LHR. I was asked if I had some flexibility with departure which I agreed to up to a 3 week difference ahead of the original date. She was happy that I had some flexibility and mentioned the SYD-ADL-DOH flight that I have mentioned previously. I explained that I would be very disappointed it if did not receive the route and carrier that I had been planning to use for the past 9 months not to mention the other negatives of taking that route. The CSR was very understanding of this and accepted that QF has taken responsibility for my issue and would do everything possible to get what I wanted reinstated. She made a note of my entire proposed itinerary and said she would look into all of my flights and would be in touch. She expects to be in contact within the next 2 to 2.5 weeks with a resolution.

I was quite confident after my last QF interaction of a reinstatement of my original flights but that doesn't look like happening the way I anticipated. The fact that QF seem to be getting on the front foot with this issue is somewhat reassuring but the time it has taken to get to this point is pretty disappointing. If they come back to me in over a fortnight with a complete itinerary, I'll be well on my way to being satisfied, until then all I can do now is wait and hope.

 

[mannej]

I think the OP has the patience of a saint here!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Latest update to this ongoing saga.

I rang QF today to add extra tentative booking's to my trip due to award seats becoming available. I spoke to a CSR and after a short explanation from me and a quick read of the notes attached to my booking number, the CSR put me on hold to get to the bottom of things for me. She returned to the line shortly after and explained that she was waiting to talk to the person in charge of my case and that QF would call me back. I received a call back around 15 minutes later and was greeted by a Premium Services representative who was now personally in charge of my booking. She explained that it did not look like QR would honour my original booking of SYD-DOH-JRO and onto LHR. I was asked if I had some flexibility with departure which I agreed to up to a 3 week difference ahead of the original date. She was happy that I had some flexibility and mentioned the SYD-ADL-DOH flight that I have mentioned previously. I explained that I would be very disappointed it if did not receive the route and carrier that I had been planning to use for the past 9 months not to mention the other negatives of taking that route. The CSR was very understanding of this and accepted that QF has taken responsibility for my issue and would do everything possible to get what I wanted reinstated. She made a note of my entire proposed itinerary and said she would look into all of my flights and would be in touch. She expects to be in contact within the next 2 to 2.5 weeks with a resolution.

I was quite confident after my last QF interaction of a reinstatement of my original flights but that doesn't look like happening the way I anticipated. The fact that QF seem to be getting on the front foot with this issue is somewhat reassuring but the time it has taken to get to this point is pretty disappointing. If they come back to me in over a fortnight with a complete itinerary, I'll be well on my way to being satisfied, until then all I can do now is wait and hope.

Your priority is Qatar airways rather than the trip, as there are guaranteed options to get you to your destination on the exact days you want.

 

[RichardMEL]

I understand totally where MEL_Traveller is coming from here and agree that yes, QF can offer you a seat to JRO (and beyond) on the dates you want...

but here's the thing that drives me bonkers about this situation.

QF admit responsibility for this yet they then want YOU (pweekes) to be flexible?!!!! This is shameful. They want YOU to solve the problem THEY created for them by making it easy. I find this disappointing in the extreme. They stuffed up.. they should resolve it. And just saying "QR won't play ball" - I think it says they're not trying hard enough with QR and/or they have no influence there(which is probably true). It just boggles me that QF are acting like this.

here's what, to me, QF should offer you.. "SYD-DXB in *F* then onto JRO" - why F? compensation for no QR and all the BS.. and of course only charge you the J points. Seriously they have stuffed up but seem to be doing the bare minimum to make up for it.

I don't know if they'd treat a WP or P1 differently, but to me status should be IRRELEVANT in this situation. They admit responsibility yet are STILL dropping the ball and don't seem to get it.

I mean they may call you in 2-3 weeks with a solution? which shoulds like they'll offer you, probably, SYD-DXB-JRO or SYD-ADL-DOH-JRO and that's it.

you sir, have extreme patience for bull**** treatment!!

I'm a P1, and I love QF in most areas, but this situation, as presented to us at least, is disgraceful and every update makes me madder.

I do agree that QF can get you to JRO on your date and the easiest path of resistance would be to take that option, but I do not see why you should have to settle for something you booked in good faith and they stuffed up and continue to fail at doing anything really positive about.

I'm so frustrated on your behalf! I don't know how you keep sane dealing with this tbh.

 

[Inuniform]

Called QF again yesterday as last time I spoke I was told that a return call would be made in 2 to 2 1/2 weeks. Today would make it 3 weeks since last speaking to QF.

I first spoke to a CSR who looked at the notes attached to my booking number and explained that QR had not reinstated my original booking. She seemed to think that QF would, if it came to it, purchase the lost seats. This is the first time I have heard of this option but it sounded like a logical conclusion. Nevertheless, the CSR said she would forward on my request for an update to the person handling my booking and they would call me back.

I was called back later in the day by the CSR trying to sort everything out for me. She had been on leave for two weeks and since being back had been working on fixing my issues. The main problem was still my QR flights and QR's decision not to reinstate them. The CSR had found an alternative flying QF SYD - SIN and then QR SIN - DOH. Flights were also found for other legs of my itinerary but there were still some holes that the CSR is confident of filling.

I somewhat agreed to the QF flight from SYD - SIN as in my mind at the time, it seemed much better than the SYD - ADL - DOH that had been offered previously. On reflection though, the thought of flying halfway to Doha, disembarking and swapping planes as opposed to a non stop flight is somewhat disappointing. I am finding it hard to oppose suggestions when the CSR is explaining the work they are putting in to finding flights for my entire itinerary. I will bring up the reservations I have about the flight out of SYD next time we speak.

I was finally told that QF are working on getting my itinerary completely booked and would be in touch later that day (yesterday). That didn't happen, so I 'll continue to wait and see what the next phone call brings.

 

[RichardMEL]

Thank you for the update...

I was called back later in the day by the CSR trying to sort everything out for me. [b\She had been on leave for two weeks[/b] and since being back had been working on fixing my issues. The main problem was still my QR flights and QR's decision not to reinstate them. The CSR had found an alternative flying QF SYD - SIN and then QR SIN - DOH. Flights were also found for other legs of my itinerary but there were still some holes that the CSR is confident of filling.

My view - poor form QF. Since she CSR knew she would be going on leave why not hand over to someone else to look after? 2 weeks can be a bloody long time in the game and to just leave it shows they really don't give much of a cough.

I somewhat agreed to the QF flight from SYD - SIN as in my mind at the time, it seemed much better than the SYD - ADL - DOH that had been offered previously. On reflection though, the thought of flying halfway to Doha, disembarking and swapping planes as opposed to a non stop flight is somewhat disappointing. I am finding it hard to oppose suggestions when the CSR is explaining the work they are putting in to finding flights for my entire itinerary. I will bring up the reservations I have about the flight out of SYD next time we speak.

Sounds to me like she's trying to make YOU feel guilty for their stuff up?! All the work they're putting in? Yeah I get QR are not playing ball and there's probably nothing "your" CSR can do about it (and makes me wonder if QF even have a senior manager/team for alliances to escalate to internally to resolve such BS) but trying to make you feel guilty for the "hard work" that is being put in to resolve the problem THEY caused by their lack of ticketing boggles my mind. I'm sure she was lovely and all but goodness me she just had 2 weeks off!!!!

QF res people are lovely in the main and I have no issues but this whole scenario as painted just seems like QF really don't care that much, barely admit to causing the mess in the first place, and are just trying to placate you with the easiest/cheapest options to get you there, and throw in a bit of built on top for good measure.

In my profession if I screw up (and it's happened from time to time) my clients don't give a cough if I spend 12 straight hours to resolve it, they want it resolved, and I'm not going to put it on them that I spent those hours given I stuffed up in the first place, or has issues resolving or whatever. I sort things out, keep them updated and apologise for the delays in resolving.

I still reckon they should offer you SYD-DXB in F (at your J charge) as compensation for all the BS, then get you to DOH to continue.

You have the patience of a saint.

 

[Inuniform]

Thank you for the update...



My view - poor form QF. Since she CSR knew she would be going on leave why not hand over to someone else to look after? 2 weeks can be a bloody long time in the game and to just leave it shows they really don't give much of a cough.




Sounds to me like she's trying to make YOU feel guilty for their stuff up?! All the work they're putting in? Yeah I get QR are not playing ball and there's probably nothing "your" CSR can do about it (and makes me wonder if QF even have a senior manager/team for alliances to escalate to internally to resolve such BS) but trying to make you feel guilty for the "hard work" that is being put in to resolve the problem THEY caused by their lack of ticketing boggles my mind. I'm sure she was lovely and all but goodness me she just had 2 weeks off!!!!

QF res people are lovely in the main and I have no issues but this whole scenario as painted just seems like QF really don't care that much, barely admit to causing the mess in the first place, and are just trying to placate you with the easiest/cheapest options to get you there, and throw in a bit of built on top for good measure.

In my profession if I screw up (and it's happened from time to time) my clients don't give a cough if I spend 12 straight hours to resolve it, they want it resolved, and I'm not going to put it on them that I spent those hours given I stuffed up in the first place, or has issues resolving or whatever. I sort things out, keep them updated and apologise for the delays in resolving.

I still reckon they should offer you SYD-DXB in F (at your J charge) as compensation for all the BS, then get you to DOH to continue.

You have the patience of a saint.

Thanks for your opinion on the matter. It is helpful to get another perspective on things. I think it is a reflection of the experience of the CSR's when they can manage to keep me relatively pacified after 9 weeks. I also find it difficult to attribute blame when it's obviously not the fault of the person I am speaking to. I would love to fly SYD - DXB in F, but I don't feel I am in a position to negotiate something like that. The longer this drags out, the more I just want to get some flights ticketed and it seems the more I push for changes the longer it will take.

 

[RichardMEL]

Thanks for your opinion on the matter. It is helpful to get another perspective on things. I think it is a reflection of the experience of the CSR's when they can manage to keep me relatively pacified after 9 weeks. I also find it difficult to attribute blame when it's obviously not the fault of the person I am speaking to. I would love to fly SYD - DXB in F, but I don't feel I am in a position to negotiate something like that. The longer this drags out, the more I just want to get some flights ticketed and it seems the more I push for changes the longer it will take.

I do not mean to criticise you - you need to do what you feel comfortable with of course - but why do you feel YOU are not in a position to negotiate?

To me, this is entirely their fault. THEIRS! They have admitted it. You booked a valid itin and had sectors cancelled because of their stuff up, not yours. Now they keep putting you off almost hoping you'll just give in and accept whatever is easiest for them (not you). I don't see why you can't say "Look, I understand Qatar won't play ball here, and that's unfortunate, but I would like to get to DOH and then JRO as directly as possible. So instead of stops in ADL and/or SIN what about you find me space on the QF1 SYD-DXB with a connection to DOH? And what about First given what has happened so far?" - they can only refuse.

I understand you not wanting to blame anyone here, but the way you've told the story, QF have assigned someone to manage your issue - to me they are the ones tasked with the responsibility. I'm not saying "blame" them for stuff outside of their control, but they also owe YOU as a CUSTOMER a resolution that suits, and seems to me that QF should be the ones being flexible here NOT YOU given all of this is their fault"

to me it just seems like they're doing the bare minimum (that's how it appears anyway) finding award seats rather than being proactive and doing something to make it right by you.

Let me put it another way -

QF should NOW be (well since this started) in Service Recovery mode. They should be working to make it right by you (not by them). Based on this experience how likely are you (and people you tell about this) to continue to be loyal to QF and want to be their customer? Sure, you may not be a high elite level FF but to me the principle still stands. If they came out and said "Look we're so sorry for all of this, we've tried really hard with QR but they won't budge, so to make it up to you we'd like to get you to DOH via DXB and in F because of our error" then you'd be raving about how great QF were to respond to this and make it right by you with the F seat being the "compensation" if you will for the trouble.

Have they offered you J SYD-DXB-DOH? I am unclear on this.

 

[Kangol]

I agree, they are in the wrong. You should not be made to feel bad at all.
There are some lawyers here who can comment, but I imagine that once it's ticketed there is some form of commercial contract (there may be a less incorrect term) and them not providing you with what you have booked can put them in some legal trouble. Not to mention the bad PR.

Push for F.

 

[Inuniform]

I do not mean to criticise you - you need to do what you feel comfortable with of course - but why do you feel YOU are not in a position to negotiate?

To me, this is entirely their fault. THEIRS! They have admitted it. You booked a valid itin and had sectors cancelled because of their stuff up, not yours. Now they keep putting you off almost hoping you'll just give in and accept whatever is easiest for them (not you). I don't see why you can't say "Look, I understand Qatar won't play ball here, and that's unfortunate, but I would like to get to DOH and then JRO as directly as possible. So instead of stops in ADL and/or SIN what about you find me space on the QF1 SYD-DXB with a connection to DOH? And what about First given what has happened so far?" - they can only refuse.

I understand you not wanting to blame anyone here, but the way you've told the story, QF have assigned someone to manage your issue - to me they are the ones tasked with the responsibility. I'm not saying "blame" them for stuff outside of their control, but they also owe YOU as a CUSTOMER a resolution that suits, and seems to me that QF should be the ones being flexible here NOT YOU given all of this is their fault"

to me it just seems like they're doing the bare minimum (that's how it appears anyway) finding award seats rather than being proactive and doing something to make it right by you.

Let me put it another way -

QF should NOW be (well since this started) in Service Recovery mode. They should be working to make it right by you (not by them). Based on this experience how likely are you (and people you tell about this) to continue to be loyal to QF and want to be their customer? Sure, you may not be a high elite level FF but to me the principle still stands. If they came out and said "Look we're so sorry for all of this, we've tried really hard with QR but they won't budge, so to make it up to you we'd like to get you to DOH via DXB and in F because of our error" then you'd be raving about how great QF were to respond to this and make it right by you with the F seat being the "compensation" if you will for the trouble.

Have they offered you J SYD-DXB-DOH? I am unclear on this.

No, J SYD - DXB - DOH has never been offered as an option. This trip is part of a OW RTW Award booking so I'm wondering if flying EK would preclude them offering this or does QF fly to DXB?

My lack of understanding of this whole process, my inexperience and my lowly status makes me think that at this stage, negotiating a better outcome than my original plan would be too difficult. I also feel that if I push too hard that I may jeopardise the rest of my itinerary. I know this may seem frustrating watching from the sidelines to someone as experienced as yourself, but I am just trying to balance things out with the little knowledge I have.

You are completely right about the opportunity for QF going above and beyond and doing the right thing here. At the moment, they haven't instilled much confidence in me. I am relatively young and although I don't fly much now, I expect to fly a lot more in the future and this will be an experience I won't forget quickly.

 

[RichardMEL]

I agree, they are in the wrong. You should not be made to feel bad at all.
There are some lawyers here who can comment, but I imagine that once it's ticketed there is some form of commercial contract (there may be a less incorrect term) and them not providing you with what you have booked can put them in some legal trouble. Not to mention the bad PR.

Push for F.

The problem is that it was booked but *NOT* ticketed....

so it's a grey area... but I would think legally the customer, having received a "confirmed" booking is entitled to believe the booking is secure and, as the word implies, "confirmed" - the airlines' back end processes of ticketiung and the like are not the concern of the passenger. He booked, he paid the fare (points+fees) and would have a very reasonable assumption that the booking was ticketed from "confirmed" showing up on MNB. I'm not a lawyer though. I don't even play on on the internet

 

[RichardMEL]

No, J SYD - DXB - DOH has never been offered as an option. This trip is part of a OW RTW Award booking so I'm wondering if flying EK would preclude them offering this or does QF fly to DXB?

Yes, I had considered this which is why I did not suggest EK (though in theory QF can mix them as a partner award not OW, but I digress).

QF1 flies SYD-DXB-LHR. So yes they do, and if one wanted to keep it OW, could do QR DXB-DOH (I am sure they fly it)

My lack of understanding of this whole process, my inexperience and my lowly status makes me think that at this stage, negotiating a better outcome than my original plan would be too difficult. I also feel that if I push too hard that I may jeopardise the rest of my itinerary. I know this may seem frustrating watching from the sidelines to someone as experienced as yourself, but I am just trying to balance things out with the little knowledge I have.

You are completely right about the opportunity for QF going above and beyond and doing the right thing here. At the moment, they haven't instilled much confidence in me. I am relatively young and although I don't fly much now, I expect to fly a lot more in the future and this will be an experience I won't forget quickly.

Mate I appreiciate the compliment, but my status and experience is irrelevant. I'm fortunate I've never had this kind of situation. I also totally understand your hesitation, but again you have done nothing wrong in this situation. It can't hurt to ask? I still don't know why they wouldn't even offer J on their own metal(would cost less and something they-QF-have full control over).

It could well be worth throwing in that you plan a lot more travel and your experience with this situation is leaning you towards taking your business elsewhere. QF may not care, but there's nothing wrong with throwing this in. QF should care that they have stuffed up here.

Anyway as I wrote above - YOU need to proceed as you feel comfortable with.. we're just offering advice and suggestions and I think many of us reading are frustrated on your behalf, not frustrated with you in any way. I'm also frustrated with the way QF is handling this. It's poor - and again they should treat you better as a customer even if you have little or no status that shouldn't be relevant (but I know otherwise sadly)

anyway best wishes - keep us posted

 

[Kangol]

The problem is that it was booked but *NOT* ticketed....

so it's a grey area... but I would think legally the customer, having received a "confirmed" booking is entitled to believe the booking is secure and, as the word implies, "confirmed" - the airlines' back end processes of ticketiung and the like are not the concern of the passenger. He booked, he paid the fare (points+fees) and would have a very reasonable assumption that the booking was ticketed from "confirmed" showing up on MNB. I'm not a lawyer though. I don't even play on on the internet

My interpretation from the first post is that the first booking was ticketed (received via email) and then automatically cancelled.

OP, did you get a ticket in the email (ie. with a ticket number starting with "081-")?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

No, J SYD - DXB - DOH has never been offered as an option. This trip is part of a OW RTW Award booking so I'm wondering if flying EK would preclude them offering this or does QF fly to DXB?

I have mentioned you asking for SYD-DXB-DOH on QF right from the beginning. It is easy for QF to convert revenue space to award space on their own aircraft. All you need to do is ask and they can do it for you almost instantly. You have indicated however that QR is your priority rather than non-top on QF.

 

[Capricornus]

I do not mean to criticise you - you need to do what you feel comfortable with of course - but why do you feel YOU are not in a position to negotiate?

To me, this is entirely their fault. THEIRS! They have admitted it. You booked a valid itin and had sectors cancelled because of their stuff up, not yours. Now they keep putting you off almost hoping you'll just give in and accept whatever is easiest for them (not you). I don't see why you can't say "Look, I understand Qatar won't play ball here, and that's unfortunate, but I would like to get to DOH and then JRO as directly as possible. So instead of stops in ADL and/or SIN what about you find me space on the QF1 SYD-DXB with a connection to DOH? And what about First given what has happened so far?" - they can only refuse.
...

in fact, it could be argued that the effort and the opportunity cost to the business (QF) in chasing QR or coming up with an alternative suitable itinerary is now greater than the forgone revenue of an award F seat they would loose by offering it as an acceptable alernative. The customer is delighted, further business overheads (opportunity costs) for QF avoided, case closed - a win-win! They may haven't even thought about this from this angle, you only need to suggest... I don't think it is unreasonable at all, if you frame it in a way that you are prepared to accept it as a 'viable compromise'.

 

[RichardMEL]

Well said, exactly the sort of thing I was thinking.