Award tickets further devalued with a new peak surcharge for tickets

[mannej]

Suspect that I am being slow (highly likely given the day I am having), but who the Orange 5?

Here you go

Currently Looking to burn my QFF Points as I cant see QFi continuing the way its going...

Spoke to an ex CSM who took a Redundancy package and the theory of some is that An Ex Board Member along with 4 other key people are working with AJ to drive the price down so that the Orange 5 as they are currently known can come in buy it up with Overseas money and other investors, hence the push to alter QF sale act.

The theory goes that they will be able to buy cheap have cheap labour due to loss of staff and have a clean sheet of paper to start from, with what most see as constraints, removed. Comment was made that the current leader is merely a Puppet for the Orange 5. JB was not offered the position as he would not be a puppet.

NOTE I am only relaying what was told to me as a rumour and I make no formal accusations as to the truth of it just thought it was interesting..

 

[hdfb]

This is actually the perfect April Fools joke. Pity it was 43 days ago.

 

[equus]

I don't think you have understood the changes, and you seem to be fixated on the 'Awards tickets' side. The $25 surcharge applies to ALL tickets, paid and 'Award', for flying out, whether in Economy, Business or First, on ALL Fridays and Saturdays (except for a couple of Asian destinations); $200 for ALL economy tickets to USA during the many weeks specified. So, how many seats do QF have departing Australia on Fridays and Saturdays? Multiply by load factor and that's the number of people affected.

I think you are missing the point that people are focussing on award tickets because they are the only ones where there is not a base fare also in play. It is not realistic to expect QF to get away with a price increase of $200 across the board for those weeks - if they are really "peak" demand, then the tickets are already more expensive and still being sold if yield management are doing their job right. A cash customer really only cares about the total price - breakdown to surcharges, taxes, fuel fines or anything else is not really relevant. When QF fix the "taxes and surcharges" they then play around with the base fare to achieve a total price that the customer pays. If the market is competitive, then introducing these surcharges won't allow QF to extract any more cash than they should be able to by just raising the fare (which they do by making only more expensive classes available).

Apart from minor details of things like TA commission, and corporate rebates and the like which are factored on base fare (so more surcharge and less base means less commission or rebate, so better return to QF) the real impact is on those tickets where QF can't manipulate the base fare - Award redemptions and OW multi-sectors tickets where they get a share of the actual ticket (which doesn't change according to their yield management rules), plus there surcharges.

Whilst it might appear that lots of tickets are going up because of surcharges, the reality is reflected in those saying "too expensive" and "I will go with the cheaper option" - QF will price for yield management, and if that means the base fared ropes correspondingly, such that gross cash price remains the same, then that is most likely. If the intent were not to chase collection of more cash on award and similar scenarios, why bother with adding additional surcharges when they could just increase the base fares and price for the peak demand? The only reason that carrier surcharges exist (excluding real external imposed taxes and charges) rather than gross pricing is because of the cases where the components are treated differently - and the person paying the total isn't one of those cases..

 

[RooFlyer]

I think you are missing the point that people are focussing on award tickets because they are the only ones where there is not a base fare also in play.
<snip for space>..

I think I follow what you are saying - and if so I'm not in disagreement. But the continuing issue for me is the constant chipping away at FF benefits and adding to the cost of them. When the surcharges on a Y Award ticket t to LHR for instance is about the same as a paid Y fare, you know the system is well and truly broken and/or unfair. When you ask to book a J Award flight say ADL-SYD-DXB-LHR, and it comes back and says no worries, X hundred thousand points, please (oh, and ! MEL to DXB to LHR will be in Economy), you know the airline is gaming you.

<deleted another rant here >

 

[equus]

I think I follow what you are saying - and if so I'm not in disagreement. But the continuing issue for me is the constant chipping away at FF benefits and adding to the cost of them. When the surcharges on a Y Award ticket t to LHR for instance is about the same as a paid Y fare, you know the system is well and truly broken

Absolutely - which is why the focus on awards as far as impact. The surcharges on a Y award ticket should only become the same a paid Y fare if the Base Y fare becomes zero - but we are heading that way, and every extra surcharge just makes it closer!

 

[11sjw]

I have to wait until Q3 '14 before I can apply for an AMEX and pick up a sign up bonus (cancelled last card inside 12 months ago) once that rolls around I'll grab one of those cards. The intention will then be to burn off whatever QFF points we have, most likely on Woolworths cards (just got rid of circa 850k on flights). Store whatever we can in AMEX MR and divert them when and where we choose.

Being in Perth QF is becoming less and less relevant hence the withdrawal will occur from both sides of the loyalty equation. I guess the only time QF will get a look in is if the prices are similar and the Lifetime Silver helps out.

Also not going to bother with paid QC Membership once the soft landing(s) have removed access from me.

 

[markis10]

Absolutely - which is why the focus on awards as far as impact. The surcharges on a Y award ticket should only become the same a paid Y fare if the Base Y fare becomes zero - but we are heading that way, and every extra surcharge just makes it closer!

Thats not so these days where points do have a value versus the early days where they were considered freebies. The frequent flyer market has matured and it's now often possible to see the points value in a redemption being way in excess of a base fare, especially when award flights are treated as second class citizens when it comes to schedule changes, something we all are seeing a lot more of lately.

Hopefully the increasing surcharges will see changes in the law to prevent advertising flights where it says points required is xx_ and fails to mention the maximum charges that are added on. It's a bit like advertising goods to the public ex GST, except in this cast the ex is more than 10 percent.

Complacency when it comes to accepting such moves just encourages more surcharges in the future and a further devaluation of those FF points. No wonder QFF is the gem in Qantas, it's like a bank that charges you interest for the privilege of having your money.

 

[bismarck]

Ah well, no more direct earning QF cards for me. Just rang up and switched my corporate AMEX over to Ascent.

I will definitely still travel with QF domestically as I think they've got the best product (when I'm not paying) but will probably maintain more flexibility in my personal points earning and will look for the best fare when travelling internationally.

I don't think I'll make Gold again this year (unless some unexpected work comes up toward the end of the year) so it'll be a lot easier to just look for the best opportunity to use purchased points to fly J (potentially on QF through AA).

 

[JohnK]

But the continuing issue for me is the constant chipping away at FF benefits and adding to the cost of them. When the surcharges on a Y Award ticket t to LHR for instance is about the same as a paid Y fare, you know the system is well and truly broken and/or unfair.

This appears to get worse by the day.

Don't bother updating the base fares. Just add on more surcharges.

 

[JohnPhelan]

I will definitely still travel with QF domestically as I think they've got the best product (when I'm not paying)

So the quality changes depending on who pays?

 

[JohnPhelan]

The ordinary traveller has achieved little out of all the recent program changes. Those flying in premium cabins have scored benefits, but the ordinary people are starting to lose out. big time.

What, ordinary people don't ever fly in premium cabins ??? What rot.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

What, ordinary people don't ever fly in premium cabins ??? What rot.

I wouldn't hesitate to say the majority of ordinary people fly economy most of the time.

they are losing out.

people with expense accounts being flown around australia in business class cabins for high prices are not your ordinary mums and dads battling it out day-to-day and flying to the gold coast with their kids for a holiday once a year.

 

[Spongbob]

Just noticed on Australian Business Traveller : "We've confirmed with Qantas that the Q Surcharge fortunately doesn't [apply] to award bookings, as noted in the article".

 

[AnonymousCoward]

I wouldn't hesitate to say the majority of ordinary people fly economy most of the time.

they are losing out.

people with expense accounts being flown around australia in business class cabins for high prices are not your ordinary mums and dads battling it out day-to-day and flying to the gold coast with their kids for a holiday once a year.

People flying once-a-year to the Gold Coast with their kids were never getting much out of the FF program in the first place.

 

[markis10]

Just noticed on Australian Business Traveller : "We've confirmed with Qantas that the Q Surcharge fortunately doesn't [apply] to award bookings, as noted in the article".

Now gone, and talking about the Dallas surcharge, not the new surcharge by the looks of it.

 

[amaroo]

Now gone, and talking about the Dallas surcharge, not the new surcharge by the looks of it.

Qantas retains $200 surcharge on Airbus A380 flights to Dallas - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller

"However, in news that may give frequent flyers an increasingly rare reason to smile, the Q Surcharge doesn't apply to bookings made with Qantas Points."

 

[markis10]

Qantas retains $200 surcharge on Airbus A380 flights to Dallas - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller

"However, in news that may give frequent flyers an increasingly rare reason to smile, the Q Surcharge doesn't apply to bookings made with Qantas Points."

Cheers, I have fixed the OPs link, and it looks like a claim covering the newer surcharges where award tickets are exempt. That seems at odds with what the published info says which mentioned "all" tickets. I suppose we will see what happens tomorrow onwards.

 

[Danger]

Cheers, I have fixed the OPs link, and it looks like a claim covering the newer surcharges where award tickets are exempt. That seems at odds with what the published info says which mentioned "all" tickets. I suppose we will see what happens tomorrow onwards.

Are you saying, the information from Qantas, is . . . is inconsistent?

 

[Mr_Orange]

Are you saying, the information from Qantas, is . . . is inconsistent?

No, no, not 'inconsistent', just 'simpler and fairer' - .

 

[zainman]

Cheers, I have fixed the OPs link, and it looks like a claim covering the newer surcharges where award tickets are exempt. That seems at odds with what the published info says which mentioned "all" tickets. I suppose we will see what happens tomorrow onwards.

My understanding from reading it is that the Q surcharge to Dallas applies to all tickets except awards, however the "peak" surcharge applies to everything including award bookings..