BA Club Europe makes QF J class look like F class

[Canny man]

My first and to this point, only J trip was a BA Club Europe from Berlin back to LHR in December.

My main disappointment (bemusement perhaps..?) was my fellow J passengers. It was an eye opener. I have never seen such a high wanker/seat ratio before.

Seriously though, I disembarked thinking "meh". Probably wouldn't bother with it again. Although the extra baggage (the main reason for me upgrading) and endless supply of scones was appreciated

Got to agree with the Wanker/seat ratio comment. I took 4 BA flights in December, 2 domestic and 2 international, all in row 1. Chinless fat bankers everywhere around me. The overhead lockers were tiny, leading to lots of posh pushing and shoving. On a Paris flight I had a 'Lord' something next to me, he and an American started arguing and had to prevented from getting into a proper fist fight by the FA.
Planes were ancient and haven't seen an upgrade since the 90's by the look of it. Pommery was nice though....

On another note. I realised how lucky we are not having to deal with bulky winter clothing when seating in Oz, the posh wankers found taking them off and putting them on an excellent excuse for elbow wars and the jackets took up even more of the scarce storage space.

 

[Austman]

Sorry to say but those who have been disappointed with European business class seating are just showing their ignorance. It's been that way for decades. And many from North America, Australia etc have been complaining about it for just as long. Especially about the seat pitch.

Back in the 80s and 90s it was pretty much the same as it is now. One difference in Europe (then and even now) is that buying the C/J-class product gives you lounge access that often needs to purchased (as a membership) in other parts of the world. So there were complaints from Europeans that they couldn't even get into the lounges when flying F/J on separate domestic tickets in other countries.

I flew J-class almost weekly around Europe for many years (SK, AY, BA, LH, AF, IB, TP ...) They were all pretty similar. Some had adjustable width seating (6 across became 5 across), some blocked out middle seats, some just moved the curtain forward or back.

IMO the BA 767s were better than the 737s in C/J-class. But not by a huge amount - and still only a 33" seat pitch!

IMO Iceland Air (FI) had the best European business class seats. 2-2 on the 757s with a 39" seat pitch. But they used the same planes to fly to North America, so it was something of a medium haul business class product. But nice if you had to go to Reykjavik.

 

[ozmille]

Fly CE a couple of times a year with SWMBO and the comments about the "stiff upper lip" as my wife calls them are so true. We are always comfortably dressed (under-dressed as they see it) as we are either coming from Oz or going to Oz so have a long trip ahead and the way they look at you when you take seat 1A and C are priceless

On Topic, I don't really care much about the flights in itself as it is always on a through ticket and to BRU it is only about 30 - 45 mins

 

[Berlin]

I'm usually the grumpy one but I really don't find their J product THAT bad- plenty of decent champagne and a great typical airline style breakfast on the morning flights (which you hardly get these days as in Y so many airlines are scrapping the hot breakfast option altogether): All I need!

Also never had bad staff, at least not on my usual LHR-TXL route- much worse crew dragons I've encountered on good old QF if you happen to be on the wrong flight! :shock:

 

[Flying mermaid]

Fly CE a couple of times a year with SWMBO and the comments about the "stiff upper lip" as my wife calls them are so true. We are always comfortably dressed (under-dressed as they see it) as we are either coming from Oz or going to Oz so have a long trip ahead and the way they look at you when you take seat 1A and C are priceless

Try travelling with 3 ankle biters in CE, as we did on a number of occasions and then see the looks you get......

 

[ozmille]

Try travelling with 3 ankle biters in CE, as we did on a number of occasions and then see the looks you get......

I can imagine

 

[simongr]

I'm usually the grumpy one but I really don't find their J product THAT bad- plenty of decent champagne

Seriously - decent champagne? Pommery? It is only marginally better than the Deutz on CX long haul - I wont even drink Deutz...

 

[Berlin]

Seriously - decent champagne? Pommery? It is only marginally better than the Deutz on CX long haul - I wont even drink Deutz...

It's real champagne, better than that sparkly **** on domestic AA or many other airlines which don't even serve ANY champagne on those short haul routes. For what it is, it's perfectly fine to me!

 

[blu]

The BAEC forum on FT has recently been tracking menu improvements in both CE and CW (& CW now has Taittinger as well).

 

[Hawkeye]

It's only been the last 2-3 years that BA have guaranteed the middle seat on the right hand side of CE would be empty. Until then, peak hour flights in CE would almost certainly see 3 abreast. The left-hand side was always nabbed first during seat selection.

BA do have the attitude that the demand for CE seats determines the number available. At the end of conventions / conferences on continental Europe, it is not uncommon to see more than half available seating dedicated to CE. That, in itself, has to have an effect on diluting the quality.

 

[simongr]

BA do have the attitude that the demand for CE seats determines the number available. At the end of conventions / conferences on continental Europe, it is not uncommon to see more than half available seating dedicated to CE. That, in itself, has to have an effect on diluting the quality.

I do recall I think when we had a few flights to Germany (DUS) that we managed to get our manager to upgrade the flights as it was only GBP40 to upgrade and we were pretty much 2/3 of the way back down the aircraft :shock:

 

[ozmille]

The BAEC forum on FT has recently been tracking menu improvements in both CE and CW (& CW now has Taittinger as well).

Woohoo, quite like the Chicken Ceasar but you can have only so many of the exact same ones. Taittinger nice addition

 

[ajw373]

BA don't have any IFE on any of their Euro fleet. Which I think is pretty hopeless. Club service out of LCY is pretty reasonable and out of LHR you would have gotten an A320 of some description which would have had similar seating. Gatwick fleet are usually known for being better on the service side than the long haul and euro fleet crew stationed at LHR.

Not quite true. Some of the airbus's and all the 767's all have IFE fitted and they do offer IFE on flights to Moscow and Athens (and a few other places too in that distance range). However in reality on those routes it is hit and miss if you get one fitted and if you don't it is tuff luck. Unlike BMI who I once flew with from London to Ankara. The a/c which was meant to fly this route (ex British Med) was faulty so a standard BMI plane flew the route. All passengers were offer compensation in form of a purchase from the duty free as the replacement a/c had not IFE. I was flying J and the compensation was 100GBP, more than down the back as we were also compensated for the substandard seating compared to what we should have got.

But yes overall BA club Europe is a little bit poor and not worth the extra money, though most of my flights in the 4 years I lived in London was in Club Europe as the company paid. It used to be worse in Club Europe as Club had 2x3 seating, this is why the OP noticed the DEF seats were different. The A and C seats would wind into the B seat, but the DEF seats didn't as often the middle seat was occupied.

Every time BA asked me to fill out their surveys I would always make the comment that the meal was the most expensive I have had, because at the end of the day that, and lounge access is all you get compared to economy. Even the leg room is the same, as Club Europe could in theory be extended most of the way down the a/c. I once got a call from BA to elaborate a little bit further on my meal comment, still don't think they quite got it.

 

[serfty]

... The A and C seats would wind into the B seat, but the DEF seats didn't as often the middle seat was occupied.

Every time BA asked me to fill out their surveys I would always make the comment that the meal was the most expensive I have had, because at the end of the day that, and lounge access is all you get compared to economy. Even the leg room is the same, as Club Europe could in theory be extended most of the way down the a/c. ....

The DEF convertible seats actually 'wind out' to make an additional 5cm width in each seat. It was some bean counter's idea to conver 3x3 to 2x5 for club.

I have been able to snaffle the A/C seats in the first row of economy which are 'converted' to enable the trolley through (as the aisle becomes offset with the conversion) on all except one occasion when were were op-upped into club.

As for seat pitch, the convertible rows run down to the over-wing exits and the pitch is 34"; the remainder of the cabin is at 31"-32".

This for the 'European' 319/320/321/737's.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Fly CE a couple of times a year with SWMBO and the comments about the "stiff upper lip" as my wife calls them are so true. We are always comfortably dressed (under-dressed as they see it) as we are either coming from Oz or going to Oz so have a long trip ahead and the way they look at you when you take seat 1A and C are priceless

On Topic, I don't really care much about the flights in itself as it is always on a through ticket and to BRU it is only about 30 - 45 mins

Love this......puts it all in perspective. A class system on a sinking island!!

 

[Sprucegoose]

Ok the comments are priceless, but where is the best value?


Do they have 747 services to domestic europe ?

Like our 747/330 flights internally to Perth.

 

[ajw373]

Ok the comments are priceless, but where is the best value?


Do they have 747 services to domestic europe ?

Like our 747/330 flights internally to Perth.

Not within Europe, but they do fly 777/747's to places like Tel Aviv, Cairo etc, they are about the same distance as Syd-Per.

 

[MrJetset]

Not within Europe, but they do fly 777/747's to places like Tel Aviv, Cairo etc, they are about the same distance as Syd-Per.

CAI and TLV are operated by 744s and offer Club World and First, not Club Europe. What you need to watch out for is the dreaded old CLub World with the old fan that BA still fly to JED.

 

[ajw373]

CAI and TLV are operated by 744s and offer Club World and First, not Club Europe. What you need to watch out for is the dreaded old CLub World with the old fan that BA still fly to JED.

You don't say. As for the old Club World didn't think there were all that many, if any left.

 

[MrJetset]

You don't say. As for the old Club World didn't think there were all that many, if any left.

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[TD="class: alt1, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]BA confirmed in 2006 the new Club World seat shall not be fitted to its fleet of long haul 767-336 aircraft. The long haul 767s shall continue to fly with the first generation flat bed seats (NCW 1.3) until retirement comes. The Rockwell Collins (TES) inflight entertainment system has at least been upgraded and now supports AVOD capabilities throughout the fleet.

From: ​Club World Guide - FlyerTalk Forums

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