Banned from QF (for a few months)

[Major]

How is this for a seat change about a month ago on QFlink at Brisbane QF lounge desk. Was in Row 2 changed to row 7.
Handed them WP card and asked why in a calm manner?
Answer: "We have to use the front row seats for freight". So I had to ask the obvious question. Are you sure freight on seats inside the cabin on a commercial flight?
No answer just handed the new boarding pass with a blank look.
Got on the plane no freight just other passengers. Seriously who thinks this stuff up. Do QF think that we are idiots.

YES

 

[Pushka]

I think the A+C seats thingy is inherently unfair. Most of us like to arrange things in advance to make our trips as comfortable as possible, partly to reduce the stresses associated with airline travel these days. For the person already faced with lengthy check-in queues, baggage and hand baggage weight restrictions, hanging around at the gate during any delays... the thought of also being stuck in a middle seat for 24 hours is no fun. Sure they might find out once on board that the A+C were 'chancing it' and willing to swap, but that doesn't relieve the stress in the days/weeks prior to getting on board.

Passengers wanting an A+C combo can easily purchase a comfort seat at heavily reduced prices.

But how is a couple (esp on separate PNR’s) picking an aisle and window seat any different to 2 randoms doing exactly the same thing? I like window. He likes aisle. If we are organised to select our seats in advance then so be it. Why should one of us end up in the middle seat to accommodate some random? Makes no sense to me.

 

[oz_mark]

The other time was my seat was the same but the aircraft downsized from a 768 to a 738. So while I still had 24B I was now down near the back. Luckily they were able to move me closer to the front.. IIRC Altea doesnt take status etc into account when re shuffling seats onto a smaller craft (and your original seat exists in the new plane).

Another situation with Altea is when a flight is cancelled, and people are moved to another flight. It seems to start from the front of the plane filling seats, and working its way back....

 

[FL360]

so many pages....

for the OP, obviously things got pushy at the SIN lounge, may be a bit drunk and getting physical, otherwise security will not be involved.
and then is the court case, which obviously cost more for Qantas and that's why OP banned.

remember
1. QF is there to make money, status is just a mass tool to get more profits (repeat customers), you are not that special.
2. there are always other more important people than you, and they can take your seats, more important people includes CL, politicians without status, key staff of government departments, QF management, pilots and crew for the next job, and friends and families of the check in staff !

as for the domestic priority boarding, the good news is that the SYD MEL Commuters generally are quite civilised and very orderly, therefore they can generally board and seat on their seats quite quickly and for the on time departure, also most of them don't have large and lots of carry on bags... and the 737 is a small plane, all these reasons means priority boarding is not that emphasized anymore.

intra asia and intra USA flights, whereas people carry a lot of carry on, in that case priority boarding matters because overhead compartments get filled quickly and if you board last, there is a chance that you will have the bag stuck in front of you, or get checked in....and you can see for AA and UA etc they have very straight boarding groups, and they are strictly enforced !

 

[davidj]

How is this for a seat change about a month ago on QFlink at Brisbane QF lounge desk. Was in Row 2 changed to row 7.
Handed them WP card and asked why in a calm manner?
Answer: "We have to use the front row seats for freight". So I had to ask the obvious question. Are you sure freight on seats inside the cabin on a commercial flight?
No answer just handed the new boarding pass with a blank look.
Got on the plane no freight just other passengers. Seriously who thinks this stuff up. Do QF think that we are idiots.

Sounds like the freight was in the aircraft bay. Passengers are placed towards the back to even the weight distribution.

 

[RichardMEL]

There is definitely a tactful way to handle these situations, however, sounding off at front-line staff is not the way to achieve things.

A common theme from AFF over the years is that when members hit LTG, or finally have enough of the QF attitude - members experience a sudden consciousness awakening and realise there is a much bigger world outside QF. Welcome to the club, hmmm.

I'm not entirely sure how this relates to this thread. There's no indication that seat changes and/or poor customer service situations don't happen on OTHER airlines. If it was only QF then sure... but we all know it isn't...

and the OP contested it was the straw that broke the camels back after "tolerating" all these failures as (s)he saw them.. then why did they NOT take themselves away from such poor experienes to VA/EY or VA/SQ or whatever? From CPH they could have gotten SQ one stop to oz rather than backtrack via LHR.

Clearly they still saw value (or their company or whgoever paid for their ticket has a policy to go QF, or it was BFOD) in keeping to the QF itin (they wrote it was all QF codeshares and metal)....

there's the choice to stay in a "bad" situation or to leave it.

just my thought.

 

[juddles]

I can't help but think of the Wolf of Wall Street movie where Leo imagines he drove his Lambo home perfectly safely while high as a kite (spoiler the Lambo is actually not fine)

The Heathrow BA F loungue with the free pour Dom, XO, Blue Label, nice French wines etc is my Achilles heel...

LHR has never been my achille's heel, but only because Life has decided I only get to be there at brekkie time - even so a couple of brekkie Blue Labels feel good - just for debauchery But put in me LAX for six hours in the evening - what is a boy supposed to do??

 

[RichardMEL]

Of all the people who have had seat issues or other things changed in transit here and had their issues "resolved" one way or another.. how many, bar the OP. were denied boarding?

None of us were there or saw what happened between the OP and the staff but we all agree it must have been a LOT to get it that bad. You'd also also hope that the staff would have told the OP their attitude was inappropriate or to calm down or whatever ... but we don't know.....

but it must have been a doozy. While Singapore is a place of "the rules are the rules" most customer service folks bend over backwards to make the customer as happy as possible in my experience....

so it's all very well to say this, that and the other.. but even the OP didn't deny how difficult things got. and again.. denied boarding and a ban from QF is extreme behaviour.

You don't get that for politely questioning the issue and seeking redress.

 

[JohnK]

Was the 4D on a 737? I was shifted once with my kids because of the airbags, but I was only moved back to row 6...

Yes it was a 737 and there were vacant seats around row 8-10 as I found out later in lounge. Check-in person useless.

I get there will be issues where 767 or A330 is replaced by 737. Has happened many times and I adjusted by pre-allocating the xxJ aisle seat and I would not be moved somewhere down the back.

 

[Pleb Status]

For the record, back in my QF P1 days, there was an extended period of time where I was unilaterally shifted around the various cabins by QF on a very regular basis (I would estimate every second flight on average). Sometimes I was told about (or discovered) the change in the lounge, sometimes I would only find out about the change at the gate.

When I could be bothered to complain, the QF lounge/gate staff would generally lie straight to your face about the reason for the change (you will find out the real reason when boarding so why lie?). When it really mattered, I called the P1 SST and had them rectify the 'problem' as only they had the 'power' to reverse the unilateral change. This was fine for me but not everyone has access to the P1 SST.

One seat swap occasion I still recall was flying BNE-SYD in Y and then connecting SYD-DXB-LHR in F. On the BNE-SYD sector, I was unilaterally shifted from 4D to 6D to accommodate some JQ flight attendants and on the SYD-DXB-LHR sectors, I was unilaterally shifted from 1K to 3K as another pax 'wanted to be closer to the exit' for some reason which was not fully explained to me. Both changes happened at the gate...

 

[nlagalle]

I’d always get the lounge staff to address it...

Yes it was a 737 and there were vacant seats around row 8-10 as I found out later in lounge. Check-in person useless.

And I learnt my lesson after being down the back, I always picked a j/K seat and never had the issue again..

I get there will be issues where 767 or A330 is replaced by 737. Has happened many times and I adjusted by pre-allocating the xxJ aisle seat and I would not be moved somewhere down the back.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But this is the bit I don’t agree with. Why, because I am part of a couple, should I have to sit in the middle to allow a complete stranger to have the window? Fairness to whom? Obviously not to me (or equally to my partner - whichever one of us is supposed to have the middle seat).

I was referring to the 'gamers' who actually want to fly together and sit together, but select the A+C seats purely because they want to discourage someone in the middle seat. So they force someone to choose the middle seat who only then finds out on board that 'oh, you can have the window or aisle'.

 

[JohnK]

Seat changes for operational (which really only should mean ‘safety) reasons should not require consent. The issue is bigger than the needs of the individual passenger.

Changes for commercial reasons (to keep a status member happy) are bad form in my books. But it’s equally bad form for the status member to accept a seat change in those circumstances.

Safety is hardly ever an issue with seat changes.

Operational reasons are used more than is required. If any airline wants to downgrade someone's seat then they need to seek that persons permission before moving them.

I don't agree moving people to seat couples together is a valid reason unless something has happened to their seating request. Laziness is no excuse.

e.g. if I am in 4D, 23J, 44H there is no reason to even attempt to move me to seat a couple together as that would mean one of them is sitting next to me in middle seat and the correct thing to do there would be to ask the person down the back to move to the forward middle seat and seat the couple down the back.

My pre-allocated seat changing happens to me so often that it becomes an issue and spoils my flight/holiday. If seating is not guaranteed then don't offer the option for people to pre-allocate seats.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Safety is hardly ever an issue with seat changes.

Operational reasons are used more than is required. If any airline wants to downgrade someone's seat then they need to seek that persons permission before moving them.

I agree that the airline's definition of 'operational reasons' is far too broad - which was the point i was trying to make. Operation reasons should only equate to safety reasons. And there can be many of these... weight and balance, a sky/air marshal, moving an adult with infant due to lack of sufficient oxygen masks, moving an adult+infant out of an airbag seat, moving another passenger to allow an adult to sit with a child, or - and I dislike this one - moving a male adult to ensure 'protection' for a child.

Thinking about it just now I guess there is one true 'operational' reason - which would be a broken seat... although that might be safety related in some cases (as opposed to broken IFE, but still that benefits the passenger).

Other things airlines like to call 'operational' which are really 'commercial' includes swapping seats so status members can get their seat of choice. I don't like that unless the seat being offered is better than the one being taken away.

 

[MarkD]

haha I have had infractions for less than this dude LOL

My 2c worth, I think there is far more to the story, I have seen some real nobs at airports and they have all travelled. To be banned for 4 months it must have been a pretty special moment.

 

[Austman]

. but for the days leading up to the flight they're left thinking they have to endure a middle seat for 24 hours on the way to Europe. And that's on top of all the other stresses involved with travel these days. I'm not sure I could think of anything much more miserable than the thought of being in a middle seat and it would probably make me dread the journey rather than be excited.

Then they should select a seat. Even if it costs some dollars.

And of course, hope that the airline doesn't take it away!

 

[Haplo]

The bulkhead seat is usually airport controlled so it is normally free even on a full flight. All OP had to do was to ask the CSM on the flight that he was moved from a good front seat to a middle seat and usually the CSM will put you in one of the bulkhead seat at the front.

I have seen people being force to move out of their seats by CSM for WP on full flight, so I think OP overreacted and would have been fine otherwise.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Then they should select a seat. Even if it costs some dollars.

True. But selecting seats can be an expensive option. I don't blame people for not wanting to shell out extra.

 

[davidj]

Then they should select a seat. Even if it costs some dollars.

Exactly. And lets not forget there are 200+ other pax travelling and a large proportion will get a 'middle' seat, therefore be "miserable". Nothing more selfish than to throw a tantrum about this if it's unfortunate to happen to you.

Best to take it as it is and move on.

 

[RichardMEL]

The bulkhead seat is usually airport controlled so it is normally free even on a full flight. All OP had to do was to ask the CSM on the flight that he was moved from a good front seat to a middle seat and usually the CSM will put you in one of the bulkhead seat at the front.

I have seen people being force to move out of their seats by CSM for WP on full flight, so I think OP overreacted and would have been fine otherwise.

Gee, if I had selected a bulkhead or other preferred seat I'd be pretty annoyed if the CSM came along and said Wel gee this Platinum person wants to sit here because they got moved to the back. Just as peed off as if I'd been the plat moved to the back. I have never seen a CSM move people like this in flight, but obviously they can should they wish to, and one has to obey crewmember instructions. I'd argue that one but not throw a wobbly.

The problem is about airport control, and in the case of the OP, is that since they were on route for a good deal of the 24 hours prior to the flight in question (SIN-MEL) that seating would all have been allocated by the time their BA flight got to SIN, hence the problems.

If the OP had attempted to contact QF at either CPH, or indeed while on transit at LHR they may have had a better chance (maybe) of resolving the issue without the need to go crazy in SIN. Now, they may have tried to, or their connection in LHR too tight to attempt it, but I do not know. Certainly had I found out in CPH that my seat was changed for SIN-MEL I wouldn['t have waited till I gotto SIN to try and deal with it. I'd be armed with expertflyer for seat maps, alternate flights options (possibly) and so on...