Best way to work this OW RTW award

[casanovawa]

I am planning to do a RTW itinerary in April for about 3 months, I have approx 91k QFF now with the ability to make it up to 140k within a couple of months. I had originally just been planning to use my points to get a 64k QFF point flight from Perth to Chicago (road trip N.A. via Canada to Wash DC) purchase ticket to Mex City, then award flight ~28k point QFF down to Lima, LAN pass around about 4 destinations in South America and then LAN/Iberia/BA up to Berlin ~50k QFF points and pay for the rest flying airlines including Aeroflot to get from Moscow to Beijing... all up i was looking at about A$2700-2900 for it all.

Reading here last night i found out about the OW 140k RTW fare which was great news and I would like to do somethign with it, it obviously won't cover all my needs as i have about 17-20 stops planned, so I am open to suggestions as to what is the best, most cost cost effective way to use it? I also don't know how to calculate at what point i will pass 35k miles/kms???

Anyway I will post places i plan to visit and then say how maybe i think it would be best to use it and then if you agree or have alterations/suggestions that would be great.

Ok total itinerary I would like to do = Perth - Chicago - road trip to Wash DC - Mexico City - Lima - Cuzco - road trip to La Paz - Santiago - B.A. - Rio de - Berlin - Copenhagen - Oslo - Stockholm - Helsinki - St Petersburg - Moscow - Beijing - Tokyo - Perth

Because of the 5 stop limitation (I assume there is no way i could buy anymore) i am thinking for the OW award RTW:

Perth to Chicago (Stop 1) (is Perth - Melb - LAX - ORD considered 3 flight segments from 16 allowed?)
Wash DC - Mex City (Stop 2) (2 segs?)
Mex City - Lima (Stop 3) (1 direct seg?)

Buy a LAN or OW South American Airpass and get about 5 flights for hopefully less than A$800-1000

Rio - Berlin (Stop 4) (2 segs?)

Buy a series of cheap tickets on Easyjet/SAS/S7 to do Berlin - Cope - Oslo - Stock - St Pet - Moscow (~A$500)

Moscow - Beijing (Stop 5) (not sure how many segs via London via BA or a China airline direct?)

Make own way Beijing - Tokyo or Osaka (A$250)

Tokyo - Perth (Return to Base) (1 seg)

Using that plan i think i have the OW award covering the most costly legs, have cheap S.A airpass and cheap scandinavian tickets cover the cheaper areas, have 5 stops as per restrictions and only about 11 segments from 16 if i am understanding how they calculate segments correctly or will the 3 ground segments i'm making my own way on take this up to close to 16??? (maybe i might chuck a few other flights in if i have spare) the other thing is, like i said, i don't quite know how to calculate if the air and ground segments take this over 35,000 miles/km limit.

Anyway, any thoughts appreciated as to how to work this best, gain the most benefits, what you would do....

Regards
Mark

 

[JohnK]

That is a very complex itinerary. Is it necessary to visit all those places?

Some points to note for a Oneworld award

• Limited to 16 segments (PER-MEL-LAX-ORD is indeed 3 segments, surface sectors are segments)
• 5 stopovers (surface sectors are essentially 2 stopovers)
• 35,000 miles (including surface sectors)

If you are going to visit all those places then you will need to pick one logical place ONLY in each continent to enter and leave and have no surface sectors otherwise the issue of stopovers arises.

So potentially an example routing would be

PER-MEL-LAX-(ORD)-MIA-(MEX)-MIA-(GRU)-LHR-(HEL)-(NRT)-PER

I am not sure about the best place to enter and leave South America but assumng the above routing is valid then it comes in at 35,978 miles according to Great Circle Mapper so it is too long for a Oneworld award. Perhaps MEX can be a side trip as well from MIA or is there an easier way to get to MEX from ORD without backtracking to/from MIA.

PER-MEL-LAX-(ORD)-(MIA)-(GRU)-LHR-(HEL)-(NRT)-PER

The above routing is 33,427 miles

You will need to some research on the Oneworld site as to valid routes and also Great Circle Mapper can help keep track of the miles.

 

[docjames]

Also, is it April 2011 or 2012? If it's another 2 months to get sufficient points, then it's march and availability of FF seats will limit your choice.

If it's 2012 then there's plenty of time.

 

[casanovawa]

yeah its 2011 i'm aiming for and so i know the remaining seat availability is an issue...

Might see if my brother has about 35,000 points that he might be able to send me now and then i can send him my points once they come in from various places - 20k bonus from taking out an ANZ credit card, the 10k from that insurance offer on the Qantas site etc...

 

[casanovawa]

And John K, no its not strictly necessary to visit all those places, i just love to explore and can always thing of more places to visit... it started out as a 7 week trip just taking in North/South America, then i let the imagination run wild... i shouldn't be left alone with airline and travel websites...

ok, so will look at what you have proposed here with some of these routings.. again which way i end up choosing to do the side trips will be based on what areas have the cheapest airfares to get around the close by countries... but you have given me some food for thought here...

 

[NM]

For travel through Europe, consider using trains. A Eurail pass, purchased before you leave Australia, can be a good option. Also consider the cost of airport transfers when comparing prices as many of the LCC in Europe use secondary airports that are quite some distance from the city the schedule notes, while trains tend to drop you right in the middle of the city - often walking distance to hotels etc.

Also consider travel insurance issues that may arise from travel using an FF award ticket. The QF OneWorld Award does not permit any changes once travel has commenced, so make sure you are adequately covered with an appropriate travel insurance policy.

I did a 3 month ATW trip with my family (7 of us travelling) using QFF OneWorld Award about 8 year ago and we had a great time. Make the most of it, but be realistic as to how many places you can see in the time you have available.

 

[casanovawa]

ok, doing the sums..

Perth - Syd- LAX - (Chicago) - DFW - (Mex City) - (Lima) - Madrid - (Helsinki) - (Narita) - (Perth) comes in at 140,000 qff points...

If I can get the boss to agree to 3 months off I think this might have to be the itinerary... then LAN or OW Pass round S.A. and cheap flights/trains round Baltic/Scandinavia... might have to leave Beijing for another time... or else maybe jettison Mex City... Just U2 is playing there and also want to visit Mexico but most of the place doesn't seem safe... hmmm, a toss up...

Excellent... Thanks John K

NM, i did think about a 3 country Eurail pass (Denmark/Norway/Swden), that's about as far as the pass could go as have to take ferry to Helsinki, then ferry or train to St Petersurg then down to Moscow on networks outside of Eurail... even just for Den/Nor/Swe, a 3 country/5 days of travelling in 2 months pass is US$459 and that still leaves Finland and Russia... i would be hoping to fit the bulk of those 5-6 countries in for about $600 in air fares, but maybe i might use a combo of some airfares and some trains if i can get the best price/travel time mix etc...

I went around Europe in 2008 for 6 weeks and used Eurail pretty much the whole time and went around Europe/North Africa for 6 weeks in 2010 and did flights practically the whole time... good and bad points about both... i'll have to do a trip report at least on the 2010 trip - 9 countries and lots of things seen....

 

[Cocitus23]

I hate to be pessimistic, but I suspect that you have left it a little late if you expect to get FF seats on all sectors for an RTW itinerary.

JohnK has given an excellent summary of the conditions, although you would do well to read them all on the One World web site. Also, the site has some excellent tools for showing what airports connect to which, and for allowing you to put together trial itineraries, which get checked against the rules.

I would see the OW RTW itinerary as being the central frame of your trip, off which you could hang all the separately purchased side trips. But get the RTW itineray planned and set in place first.

I get one of these tickets every year, and have been doing so for years. They are excellent value, whether paying by dollars or points. But if I intend to use points I do the planning work a good twelve months in advance, and then try to ticket it at the earliest opportunity. I sense that you are somewhat ill-prepared to be embarking on this exercise for a journey commencing in say 8 weeks. Can you delay it?

By the way, for a complex itinerary such as you propose, once I have worked out an itinerary which I think is OK, I find it well worthwhile to phone Qantas FF and use a consultant (I think it costs 2500 points), even though it is theoretically possible to do it on the web. Why? Because I discover that there is usually a sector or two where I encounter a problem, such as lack of seat availability, or code share complications, and the consultant can help you past such hurdles.

 

[casanovawa]

Hey Cocitus

Well naive i might be a touch, have always usually bought tickets rather than gotten via points, but i went on the multi city booking thing on Qantas and put in all the flights on the right days i wanted it and it seemed to indicate seats were available... i think it comes in under 35,000 miles just, few enough flight segments... but i could be well unschooled about the intricacies of it all and if things are showing but reserved... my sis also kindly transferred 50k points so i have all the points i need, just boss approval required...

the advice about calling Qantas is probably a good one i will follow... its now 3,500 points (always going up) or $60 or so, but i will probably elect to pay it, as although i think i can see all the connections and all, i could probably think of a few better possibilities and maybe a live person can help me out...

yes cutting it a bit fine absolutely, i have been thinking about the North/South America leg for almost a year (since my last trip anyway), Asia/Europe were meant to be 2012 but thought what the hell lets combine them, no time like the present and i can think of new places for 2012... and then as i wrote up the top, was just going to use points for a couple of individual flights in the original plan, only learnt a couple of days ago about the RTW/points possibility when i joined this site... anyway, nothing ventured/nothing gained eh...

this OW award does seem great value, i think to purchase it outright through One World/Qantas you would be looking at $3-4000 wouldn't u??? i'm not sure how good a value that is... anyway, i can only dream of having a job that lets me fly enough to accumulate 140k points to take one every year... unless i start thinking of a few tricky strategies...

PS if anyone does have such a jetsetting job and would like to put in place a succession strategy, i am available...

Edit: by the way i want to go in mid April as i have a friend working in the ski fields in Denver whose visa will be finishing up, so will road trip with him N.A. then go round S.A. with him, then might be able to catch up with another friend in Japan at the end of the trip... if it wsn't for the hook up issues, yes later in the year, missing out Oz Winter completely, would be preferable...

 

[JohnK]

the advice about calling Qantas is probably a good one i will follow... its now 3,500 points (always going up) or $60 or so, but i will probably elect to pay it, as although i think i can see all the connections and all, i could probably think of a few better possibilities and maybe a live person can help me out...

My last couple of Oneworld awards could not be booked online due to glitches in QF award booking engine.

Called up a number of times to get the itinerary finalised and was ticketed over the phone by QF and they waived the assisted booking fee each time. The consultant that ticketed the first one told me he had never booked anything so complex and mentioned that I had very good knowledge of flights, airports and connections.

Also a number of consultants did not want to waive the assisted booking fee even though I was having issues booking the itinerary online so I just thanked them for their time and called back later until I got a consultant that would waive the assisted booking fee....

 

[casanovawa]

ahhh, the ring around to get the right operator.. you are a fount of good ideas JK..

I'll have to try that one...

and a lot of you guys not only have good knowledge of flights, connections, but classes and even which specific seat on the plane... i haven't gotten to that level of expertise...

 

[JohnK]

Won't be long before you start to understand the pros and cons for sitting in specific seats.

P.S good compromise on the routing of the itinerary. Hope you can get the time off and have a great holiday exploring....

 

[Danger]

That is a very complex itinerary. Is it necessary to visit all those places?

Some points to note for a Oneworld award

• Limited to 16 segments (PER-MEL-LAX-ORD is indeed 3 segments, surface sectors are segments)
• 5 stopovers (surface sectors are essentially 2 stopovers)
• 35,000 miles (including surface sectors)

JohnK, where do you find the rules for the oneworld RTW award with QF?

this OW award does seem great value, i think to purchase it outright through One World/Qantas you would be looking at $3-4000 wouldn't u??? i'm not sure how good a value that is... anyway, i can only dream of having a job that lets me fly enough to accumulate 140k points to take one every year... unless i start thinking of a few tricky strategies...

Yep, upwards of $4k for a oneworld Explorer (round the world) fare, although that allows 16 stops, not 5 so they're not that comparable. As for the points, there's often very good credit card offers where if you sign up you'll get 10k, 15k etc. QFF points. Failing that, if you know someone who owns a farm or has kids in private school or if you can find a car dealer that will accept a credit card, you'll be off to a very good start.

 

[JohnK]

JohnK, where do you find the rules for the oneworld RTW award with QF?

Here in the terms and condtions. More importantly the Oneworld award booking conditions

14.5 Qantas & Partner Classic Awards - oneworld Award booking conditions
14.5.1 A oneworld Award is a Classic Award Itinerary that includes travel on at least two oneworld Alliance Airlines other than Qantas and does not include any travel on any airline that is not a oneworld Alliance Airline.
14.5.2 Classic Awards using the oneworld Classic Award table must be no more than a distance of 56,315 kilometres (35,000 miles). Longer journeys must be broken into separate Itineraries.
14.5.3 A one way oneworld Award Itinerary will be charged as a return Itinerary. oneworld Award Itineraries finishing in a port other than the port of origin must include the distance to return directly to the port of origin when calculating the number of Points required to redeem the Flight Award and the maximum distance for the Itinerary.
14.5.4 The following Stopover conditions apply:
(a) up to five free Stopovers are permitted;
(b) additional Stopovers are not permitted;
(c) only one Stopover is permitted in any one city in the Itinerary; and
(d) only two Transfers may be taken at any one city in the Itinerary.
14.5.5 Surface Segments are permitted as part of oneworld Award Itineraries, but the distance between the disembarkation point and the next embarkation point will be included in the Award Point zone calculation for that Itinerary.
14.5.6 Where mixed-class travel is booked, the whole Itinerary will be calculated using the Points level for the highest class booked.

 

[casanovawa]

yeah, i think i bought the equivalent fares for RTW trips in 2003 and 2004... about $3500 even back then i seem to recall... made the holidays pretty expensive with hotels but the many more stops were great... these days i take a full fare flight to Europe (did Qatar Airways in 2010, nice airline) then usually use cheap airlines just to zip around europe, doesn't earn me any QFF points, but so much cheaper than taking full fare airlines... but maybe i will have to re-evaluate this for the futurenow i know about this award point offer???

I have now used the ANZ credit card offer (20k qff), Woolies everyday card (16k qff) and the insurance offer (10k qff) to add to the points i had already accumulated over time... so that's me used up for these particular ones (new offers might come up, of 16-20k for other cc's) but i am contemplating asking a couple of family members whether they would consider taking out these same deals, i will fill out all the forms and make it easy for them and pay the first year fee, think mum and dad wouldn't mind doing it and then transferring the points to me (45k each) then just have to try and find the other 50k points and i will have another 140k for next year... hmmm, someone is wanting me to leave my new Commodore SV6 i just bought (with credit cards for more points at new years) with them when i go on the holiday, might have to come with a fee of taking out a few credit cards also???

i think this is allowed isn't it??? when u buy top up points you can only use them for 15% of any trip, but i don't think there is any rules about family transfers is there???

 

[JohnK]

i think this is allowed isn't it??? when u buy top up points you can only use them for 15% of any trip, but i don't think there is any rules about family transfers is there???

I believe there are yearly limits for each account when doing family transfers. Need to look in the terms and conditions.

 

[serfty]

With family transfers you can transfer between 5000 and 100000 QFF points from your QFF account to an eligible family member's QFF account.

You can only do this once every 365/366 days, so if transferred today, then the transferring account cannot do another transfer until 21/01/2012.

There are no apparent limits on how many points an account may receive.

 

[casanovawa]

this is where being such a good son all these yers could pay off... 2013 i'll have to tap brothers/sisters on the shoulder... 2014 will be nieces and nephews...

 

[Danger]

Here in the terms and condtions. More importantly the Oneworld award booking conditions

These T&Cs don't mention anything about RTW awards, the 140k points cost or the 16 segments. Are these just taken as givens? It seems to talk more about pricing awards with points when going point to point which, as I understand it, would mean far more than 140k points for most RTW itineraries if pricing point to point.

 

[JohnK]

These T&Cs don't mention anything about RTW awards, the 140k points cost or the 16 segments. Are these just taken as givens? It seems to talk more about pricing awards with points when going point to point which, as I understand it, would mean far more than 140k points for most RTW itineraries if pricing point to point.

I posted condition 14.5 which spins off into the Oneworld award booking conditions. I did see somewhere in the terms and conditions the reference to 16 sectors but cannot find it now. Not sure why there is no reference to points required but I am guessing that has to do with the 3 options, possibly 4, offered i.e. Economy 140,000 QFF points, premium economy (does this exist?), business class 280,000 QFF points and first class 420,000 QFF points.

From my understanding a Oneworld award is spinoff or by-product of a Qantas Classic award when certain conditions are met. From memory the QFF classic award point cost can go above 140,000 QFF points if certain conditions for the Oneworld award have been not been met then the itinerary reverts to multiple Qantas classic awards.