Building a stronger Qantas

[JohnK]

If I stay at a hotel and the experience is unfriendly and inefficient, I don't go back. Also, hotels regularly survey me because they are interested in my experience. I don't shop at Myer because there is no service. We avoid Qantas for similar reasons. How hard, how much more expensive, can it be to place more emphasis on service and customer satisfaction?

Let's not forget hotels are a dime a dozen and very simple to never go back again.

Unfortunately there are only 2 airlines to choose from domestically and the other mob is not much better, if at all....

 

[Moopere]

I disagree somewhat with this... I think money is an issue.

management can have all the vision they want, but without adequate staff to carry it out then you just end up with overworked and dissillusioned staff...

I have seen money 'thrown' at such problems to no avail. Still grumpy staff, still no service delivery and the senior (mis)managers throwing up their hands in despair that obviously nothing can be done.

Any job needs a minimum number of staff to allow decent performance of course, after that I'm a big believer in leadership as the main determinator of under or over performance. I realise there is a whole thread waiting to happen on that subject alone, but in short, I've seen some amazing teams at work that have not been over resourced or funded. Likewise, I'm seen abysmal performance from very well resourced groups.

Looking after your peoples health, by way of sane working shifts and safe/reasonable numbers for any job is of course a basic management role, possibly _the_ most basic of any managers role. Easily forgotten perhaps in the drive for inventive ways to save a buck - but I'm not sure how understaffed QF really is. Are there too few FA's? Or are there just less than some other airlines? I really don't know.

 

[amaroo]

As one that has felt the impact of an industry hammered by global competition I have to ask what makes a pilot or engineer any different to a process worker on the shop floor that has already lost their job due to cheaper imports. Most people in Australia go to a doctor that is trained in a different country & when flying OS they are sitting in a plane that has been serviced by an engineer & pilots trained in a foreign country - whats the problem? How many of you stop flying beyond QF destinations ?

Any argument that is based on a home grown basis I'm afraid is about 2 decades too late.

Just think about all those cheap goods the pilots have brought home whilst OS - I'm sure they didn't give a rats thought about whose job they were dismissing whilst they were saving money:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

 

[ajw373]

As one that has felt the impact of an industry hammered by global competition I have to ask what makes a pilot or engineer any different to a process worker on the shop floor that has already lost their job due to cheaper imports. Most people in Australia go to a doctor that is trained in a different country & when flying OS they are sitting in a plane that has been serviced by an engineer & pilots trained in a foreign country - whats the problem? How many of you stop flying beyond QF destinations ?

Any argument that is based on a home grown basis I'm afraid is about 2 decades too late.

Just think about all those cheap goods the pilots have brought home whilst OS - I'm sure they didn't give a rats thought about whose job they were dismissing whilst they were saving money:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

Quite true, this is the reality of the modern world and is indeed one of the many issues that effects Qantas and it's staff and management.

 

[ethernet]

Clearly, there are some good managers posting good advice - all good.

But the bottom line should be managers are long term accountable (catching the slash and burn artists, or those who move on before the S**t hits the fan, as well as the smooth talkers who re-define 'success'). If they don't know the problem, or accept the feedback, or vacillate over effective resource deployment - they deserve the heave ho. Falling market share is a sign to swap out the old.

For QF, system feedback is the key. When Administrators impact operations, you have to choose on business, not power alliances, or a pack of glossy PR embellishments at the AGM. Tiger found this out the hard way, when some twerp over-ruled operational sensibility to meet their line budget.

Feedback systems, Synergy, empowerment are all good, but it is plain wrong to ignore staff grievances.
Also if what you do now is not working, try something else, or promote your best operations people (tiger after the fact).

But I advise against different service levels on different routes - what Cathay has tried - and I know some who are telling 10 friends not to travel on same. Managers that non-selectivity manage all feedback - are the winners.

 

[ozmille]

The thread is a bit long to go completely through it but does someone recall if it is mentioned when the new F lounges in SIN and HKG mentioned in the A New Spirit document will open?

 

[Danger]

The thread is a bit long to go completely through it but does someone recall if it is mentioned when the new F lounges in SIN and HKG mentioned in the A New Spirit document will open?

Serfty indicated in another thread today that SIN wouldn't be upgraded until 2013.

 

[ozmille]

Serfty indicated in another thread today that SIN wouldn't be upgraded until 2013.

that is a long way out... thanks, will try to find the other thread

 

[Danger]

that is a long way out... thanks, will try to find the other thread

Post 84 here.

 

[mannej]

One thing I must admit it frustrates me to see are the There is a new Spirit adds in the West.

The fact that QF advertise the upgraded 747 product from a port that has no upgraded 747 routes (for the time being) is annoying. Yes I am aware those going to the likes of LAX, DFW, LHR etc will end up on the product ex SYD and ex SIN, but for those going into Asia will end up on the forgotten A330's. I don't know what the numbers are like if you put MKII onto the A330's but I think the flying public is calling out for some consistency where QF can actually can control it.

Hopefully when the 787's come, it will be 1 layout, and not the 3 different layouts as per the 767's or the many different 330's...

 

[Danger]

Speaking of QF and 'misleading' advertising, I'm reminded of the billboard at Perth Airport promoting QF's skybed service to SYD. It features a photo of a very content lady sleeping in her mark II skybed.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Speaking of QF and 'misleading' advertising, I'm reminded of the billboard at Perth Airport promoting QF's skybed service to SYD. It features a photo of a very content lady sleeping in her mark II skybed.

if that is the case then big fines for qf if it comes to the attention of the authorities. again their PR department just has no idea... more evidence of 20 somethings doing the job? ('the law' is a basic component of PR 101 courses around the world!)

 

[nlagalle]

if that is the case then big fines for qf if it comes to the attention of the authorities. again their PR department just has no idea... more evidence of 20 somethings doing the job? ('the law' is a basic component of PR 101 courses around the world!)

Honestly, that's a stretch!! Firstly, how many regular punters are going to know the difference between a skybed mk1 or mk2? And secondly, it's a skybed. The wording etc doesn't say what model of skybed does it?

 

[harvyk]

Speaking of QF and 'misleading' advertising, I'm reminded of the billboard at Perth Airport promoting QF's skybed service to SYD. It features a photo of a very content lady sleeping in her mark II skybed.

Unless they actually state it's a mark II skybed, then I doubt it would be misleading, as they do offer a skybed service from PER-SYD and the B747's are being upgraded to receive the mark II...
Assuming any authority did anything QF could simply state "it was a file photo which is representative of the product on offer".

Besides, beyond the AFF community and a few other plane enthusiasts I doubt anyone would know the difference between the mark I and the mark II just based on a 10 second glance of a billboard.

 

[Simo]

OMG this thread is getting petty when we are saying QF has mislead the public when they pictured a different version of skybed...

The car company's will say overseas version of the car shown in the ad and no one calls this false advertising.

When i do the flight from PER to SYD if i had a skybed i would be happy regards of the version 1 or 2... better than trying to sleep in economy.

Rant over.....!!!!

 

[harvyk]

The car company's will say overseas version of the car shown in the ad and no one calls this false advertising.

What you talking about, I'm still annoyed that my car is right hand drive when the ad clearly showed a left hand drive vehicle...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I thought the test was just that an ordinary member of the public had been misled... the accc website says..

The Australian Consumer Law (contained in the schedule to the Competition and Consumer Act 2010) protects you from false, misleading or deceptive selling practices.

It is unlawful for businesses to make false or misleading representations about goods or services in promotions or advertising.

The law says businesses must not make false or misleading representations about:

the standard, quality, value or grade of goods or services
etc etc (extensive list)​

I would have thought if the advert specifically mentioned per-syd, and shows a complete horizontal bed, then that falls in the above category? how hard is it to find a file picture of a mark I bed and just be honest? it might well mislead a member of the public who thinks that qf is introducing full flat beds to compete with virgin's cradle seats... that is not an unreasonable conclusion... ??

 

[amaroo]

Well on that basis I reckon I have a solid case based on the FA's they portray on TV. I've NEVER seen one in the fresh that looks like the ones they have on the ads

 

[harvyk]

The law says businesses must not make false or misleading representations about:

the standard, quality, value or grade of goods or services
etc etc (extensive list)

​

I would have thought if the advert specifically mentioned per-syd, and shows a complete horizontal bed, then that falls in the above category? how hard is it to find a file picture of a mark I bed and just be honest? it might well mislead a member of the public who thinks that qf is introducing full flat beds to compete with virgin's cradle seats... that is not an unreasonable conclusion... ??

This is a yes and no case. Qf don't even guarentee all PER-SYD QF services are operated by a skybed, and they don't charge any price difference between a skybed service and a non-skybed service.
For example on Oct 20 QF are offering skybeds on QF580 (B744) for $1519, they are offering a A332 service a 2 hours before for $1519 in J, and another service that morning in a B763 in J for $2014... AFAIK only one of those services are skybed services. So QF have not guarenteed you anything, they have simply said there are skybeds.

The general thing when claiming false advertising is that you need to prove that you have suffered a financial loss as a result of that advertising. Now to be fair, stating that you wouldn't have purchased a J class seat had you known that it was only a mark I and you specifically saw a mark II might count.

But chances are that a court would rule that the advertisement showed a skybed seat, similar in nature to the one which you received, with a similar level of features.

 

[ozmille]

Well on that basis I reckon I have a solid case based on the FA's they portray on TV. I've NEVER seen one in the fresh that looks like the ones they have on the ads

Especially the ones I had on my last QF flight number operated by BA! Some scary creatures


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