Business out the front, party out the back?

[harriaj]

Hi

Not talking mullets - I am considering using my points for a trip to Europe (purely holiday) next year, but at this stage will likely only have enough for a business ticket in one direction, and economy in the other.

Having never flown business before (and thus not having experienced the difference in jet lag that may occur), I am interested in AFF members' views as to which leg would be the best to fly in business on - inbound Europe or outbound Europe? Personally I'm leaning towards the return leg - I would have thought that extra level of comfort after a good holiday would be a nice bookend to the trip, but I'm not sure.

I'll probably be flying with Etihad if that adds to the equation at all.

 

[ozmille]

can you do the long legs ie SYD-AUH-SYD in J and the short hops to Europe in Y?

I always find coming back to Oz and the having to go to work when you get back more daunting so J that way would be nice. However I am doing it the other way next year as I have to be fresh when I get there as I have to attend a wedding the day after I arrive and I'm thinking that I will survive the whY trip and go straight to work the day I arrive back :shock:

 

[casanovawa]

My personal view is that I haven't flown J yet, but plan to next year, and i can imagine that on my first J flights i won't get that much more sleep than flying Y as i will want to stay up most of the time and experience all the wonder that is J being a noob rather than sleep much even with a compfy bed..

But guess it really depends on which leg you might need it most... Are you going straight into your holiday and its a short hell for leather one and Y effects you pretty badly meaning you waste a few days or at least having to take them slowly with jetlag???

Or do you recover pretty well when you arrive and its a longer holiday so you have a few days at the start you can afford to go half pace and its when you get back to Oz that you will be going back to work almost the day after (like i do because i can't stand to have rest days when i get back when i could be adding another city to visit) or do none of these categories apply to you???

In general if you have time to recover when you get back i would be inclined to making sure you could hit the ground running when you arrive as with so much to do before i go i tend to have some late nights before i depart, then have lack of sleep on the way there and you can often get in at 5am in the morning into LHR etc so its just a bit of a struggle to start your holiday like that...

 

[harvyk]

The questions you need to ask yourself is

1. How well do you sleep in Y
2. Which legs are you likely to sleep on (remember just because it's "night" doesn't mean you'll sleep)
3. Would you rather be awake the full time in J or would you rather sleep?
4. Would knowing your flying back J overshaddow the rest of the trip? Last thing you want is to be away and all you can think about is the trip back home and not enjoy your holiday as much as you otherwise could. If that is the case make sure you fly J there and Y back...

For me I tend not to sleep better or worse on a J flight compared to a Y flight (with one exception, where I did SFO-SYD in J and slept for a good solid 7 hours)

 

[harriaj]

can you do the long legs ie SYD-AUH-SYD in J and the short hops to Europe in Y?

I always find coming back to Oz and the having to go to work when you get back more daunting so J that way would be nice. However I am doing it the other way next year as I have to be fresh when I get there as I have to attend a wedding the day after I arrive and I'm thinking that I will survive the whY trip and go straight to work the day I arrive back :shock:

I have considered a mixed fare (i.e. long haul J and short hop Y), but I'm yet to fully explore my ability to do that with rewards flights - there would obviously be penalties both in terms of points and price if I have to book separate tickets within the same booking. Food for thought though.

My personal view is that I haven't flown J yet, but plan to next year, and i can imagine that on my first J flights i won't get that much more sleep than flying Y as i will want to stay up most of the time and experience all the wonder that is J being a noob rather than sleep much even with a compfy bed..

But guess it really depends on which leg you might need it most... Are you going straight into your holiday and its a short hell for leather one and Y effects you pretty badly meaning you waste a few days or at least having to take them slowly with jetlag???

Or do you recover pretty well when you arrive and its a longer holiday so you have a few days at the start you can afford to go half pace and its when you get back to Oz that you will be going back to work almost the day after (like i do because i can't stand to have rest days when i get back when i could be adding another city to visit) or do none of these categories apply to you???

In general if you have time to recover when you get back i would be inclined to making sure you could hit the ground running when you arrive as with so much to do before i go i tend to have some late nights before i depart, then have lack of sleep on the way there and you can often get in at 5am in the morning into LHR etc so its just a bit of a struggle to start your holiday like that...

I did the US and Canada in September last year and Europe in March this year, both times going straight to work after I have arrived home. I crash later that day but have found that I was fresh and ready (or rather, I recovered pretty well) for both of the inbound US and Europe legs. I imagine my fairly intense itinerary also had something to do with it though. There's nothing like the fear of a missed connection on budget tickets to keep you wide awake ALL the time. So I guess there is not so much need to be fresh on arrival there because to an extent I probably already will be.

The questions you need to ask yourself is

1. How well do you sleep in Y
2. Which legs are you likely to sleep on (remember just because it's "night" doesn't mean you'll sleep)
3. Would you rather be awake the full time in J or would you rather sleep?
4. Would knowing your flying back J overshaddow the rest of the trip? Last thing you want is to be away and all you can think about is the trip back home and not enjoy your holiday as much as you otherwise could. If that is the case make sure you fly J there and Y back...

For me I tend not to sleep better or worse on a J flight compared to a Y flight (with one exception, where I did SFO-SYD in J and slept for a good solid 7 hours)

I would probably be in the same boat as you. I don't have much trouble at all falling asleep in Y, but that's usually because I'm stuffed by the time I get on the plane - no matter what time it may depart. I think I would rather be awake the full time in J, but that is something that I wouldn't be able to discern until I'm onboard. I don't think knowing I was flying back on J would overshadow the rest of the trip.

I think I'm getting a good idea of what would suit my personal circumstances best here. But is there usually any difference flying in or out? Presumably if I was flying J into Europe in Business I would have access to the Air NZ Lounge in MEL and the Etihad lounge in AUH, whereas flying back in J, I would have access to the Etihad Lounge in DUB/LHR and the Etihad Lounge in AUH. Has anyone tried these?

 

[juddles]

... I don't think knowing I was flying back on J would overshadow the rest of the trip....

harriaj,

personally I would do the return in J as after heading out on J would make me dread the return in Y.

But, and this could be a personal thing, but I always suffer worse jet lag after heading east rather than west. Not sure if others would concur.

 

[harvyk]

But is there usually any difference flying in or out?

Not really, I've done trips where I've flown to the destination in Y and returned in J, and I've done trips flying to the destination in J and returned in Y. There wasn't much difference either way IMHO... I do know I was really looking forwards to the flight back the first time (as it was going to be my first skybed experience) which overshadowed things a little, but as it was a business trip anyway I didn't mind too much.

 

[docjames]

I'll add:

1. Look at the flight timings - if one is mostly / more overnight, I'd choose that one for J.

2. The mixed fare is a useful idea. Finnair have good fares into europe via their hub in HEL with Aus-Asia in Y and Asia-Europe in J.

3. Premium economy might be a good option that's in between. That rules out etihad of course (but not VAustralia between SYD-AUH).

4. All else being equal, Y out, J return as has been stated elsewhere, the thought of Y after the J outbound will be daunting, and when heading away the "excitement" will make Y tolerable, whereas you might be "over it" or "sad" about heaing home.

 

[quark]

Definitely Y to Europe and J back home.

There is nothing worse than flying J (especially for the first time) and then realising you have to come back in Y. It's just plain depressing. Trust me... This is why I no longer fly Y internationally.

 

[TiredOldFlyer]

Whatever or which way you choose select the metal carefully. There is a great variation in J class seats - recline, lay flat on an angle and fully flat beds.
Some a/c are not worth the premium for J.

 

[tuapekastar]

I'd consider the opposite...J out, Y back.

On the way out you are in holiday mode, on the way back you are coming back to 'normal' mode and presumably can collapse in your own bed for as long as you want when you get home. But I do agree check the metal, and daytime/nightime flight balance.

 

[ozmille]

I'd consider the opposite...J out, Y back.

On the way out you are in holiday mode, on the way back you are coming back to 'normal' mode and presumably can collapse in your own bed for as long as you want when you get home. But I do agree check the metal, and daytime/nightime flight balance.

Thats also why going to FRA I am booked on the A380 to SIN and back and then the normal hideous old 747 to FRA

 

[significance]

If you fly Y to Europe, you might have to spend the first couple of days of your European holiday recovering.

If you fly Y home, you either need to leave yourself some recovery time at home (shortening the holiday) or risk spending your first week back at work exhausted and half asleep.

When my husband and I faced the same choice, he argued for J on the outward leg, as how we felt during our short, exotic holiday was more important than dull days in the office. I argued the other way, as I wanted to feel rested at the end of our holiday, and ready for work.

 

[jwak]

If you fly Y to Europe, you might have to spend the first couple of days of your European holiday recovering.

If you fly Y home, you either need to leave yourself some recovery time at home (shortening the holiday) or risk spending your first week back at work exhausted and half asleep.

When my husband and I faced the same choice, he argued for J on the outward leg, as how we felt during our short, exotic holiday was more important than dull days in the office. I argued the other way, as I wanted to feel rested at the end of our holiday, and ready for work.

Who won?

 

[significance]

Who won?

Neither of us, in the end. We applied for a points upgrade on the outward route, but Qantas did not oblige.

 

[Kceips]

Medical texts suggest that you suffer more from jet lag when crossing multiple time zones from west to east. On this basis I would fly home in comfort!

 

[malmacdowall]

Definitely Y to Europe and J back home.

There is nothing worse than flying J (especially for the first time) and then realising you have to come back in Y. It's just plain depressing. Trust me... This is why I no longer fly Y internationally.

Totally agree with this. I have always found it a greater benefit to fly J coming home from Europe. The sleep you get greatly reduces the jet lag... Can you do stop over on the outbound leg to Europe. We tend to stop overnight in AUH and get a good sleep before the short leg to Europe....

 

[MEL_Traveller]

most of the studies suggest jet lag is much much less of an issue going westbound... that, coupled with the fact that you are excited by going on holiday means you have plenty of adrenaline to get you up and going.

for that reason, I would fly biz on the way home where jet lag can be shocking. also invest in some melatonin or other serious sleeping pill to make sure your first night back home gets your sleep patterns back in order... (generally if I feel tired coming off a Europe flight in Australia I just go to sleep when I feel like it... if I wake up then I might have something to eat, but if past my normal bedtime then sleeping tablet to knock me out until the morning).

 

[juddles]

Medical texts suggest that you suffer more from jet lag when crossing multiple time zones from west to east. On this basis I would fly home in comfort!

My DNA must have skipped that class.

 

[pshepvic]

I actually find jet lag is worse going westbound. It makes a day much longer, whereas going east you get on a 3pm flight SYD-LAX (for example) eat and drink up, go to sleep, and wake up at about 8am LA time for breakfast and to arrive at 10am!

In saying that I'd still take the J flight for the homeward journey - once you go J you won't want to go back to Y.

One thing I will say though, is that I generally find the food onboard is better departing from Australia than anywhere else, in all classes. Out of the US it's generally quite stodgy, out of Asia it's usually full of sugar (especially the bread), and out of the UK it's like cardboard.