Carbon Tax

[drron]

It's good to see that the words 'Carbon Tax' have made it back into the thread :!:

Wouldn't be AFF if we didn't fly off on a tangent!

 

[drron]

Looks like it might be dead anyway-
Carbon tax | Gillard's carbon hopes up in smoke

 

[Sifor]

I just can't see how she could recover from dumping the carbon tax.

The ALP couldn't get rid of her and put Swanny or Shorten in... the people wouldn't accept two assassinations.

Julia must get this carbon tax through if she wants to remain as PM and in government. Backing down now would signal a massive win for the Coalition.

 

[Mal]

Yeah, let's implement a Carbon Tax. That will fix everything...

 

[anat0l]

Once again the short-sighted industrials of this nation hold the government by the balls. And the idiotic Abbott simply rides on their voice without a mere thought of fielding a real, proactive agenda.

Yeah, let's implement a Carbon Tax. That will fix everything...

To put it nicely, that's a really glib statement showing how extremely short sighted you are.

This is not a silver bullet solution to climate change. There is no silver bullet solution and anyone who believes there is better be sure of themselves or suffer a penalty of a very, very painful death. Because as far as I and many other experts can see, there is no silver bullet answer to climate change.

That's not to say carbon trading/taxing is not one of the components of the answer, but it is not a silver bullet.


Once again, I really put it to anyone who believes the carbon tax is a bad idea per se: what would you do instead to protect the environment and mitigate against the effects of climate change?

 

[Sprucegoose]

She's stuffed and deserves to be. Even the AWU are against it now.

Go back one. She tells Rudd to dump it. He does, looks weak and she takes over and implements it after saying she wouldn't.

You get the politicians you deserve.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Once again, I really put it to anyone who believes the carbon tax is a bad idea per se: what would you do instead to protect the environment and mitigate against the effects of climate change?

Do humans have an impact on the climate, for sure. Without a doubt. But maybe not to the extent that is reported.

The Earth's climate changes too, lets not forget that.

I'm skeptical of the data that has been manipulated to show an increase of temperature.

Error in NASA climate data sparks debate


Climate Emails Stoke Debate

The scientific community is buzzing over thousands of emails and documents -- posted on the Internet last week after being hacked from a prominent climate-change research center -- that some say raise ethical questions about a group of scientists who contend humans are responsible for global warming.

Some emails also refer to efforts by scientists who believe man is causing global warming to exclude contrary views from important scientific publications.

 

[dfcatch]

Once again the short-sighted industrials of this nation hold the government by the balls. And the idiotic Abbott simply rides on their voice without a mere thought of fielding a real, proactive agenda.



To put it nicely, that's a really glib statement showing how extremely short sighted you are.

This is not a silver bullet solution to climate change. There is no silver bullet solution and anyone who believes there is better be sure of themselves or suffer a penalty of a very, very painful death. Because as far as I and many other experts can see, there is no silver bullet answer to climate change.

That's not to say carbon trading/taxing is not one of the components of the answer, but it is not a silver bullet.


Once again, I really put it to anyone who believes the carbon tax is a bad idea per se: what would you do instead to protect the environment and mitigate against the effects of climate change?

1/ Whatever we do, if we do it unilaterally, it won't make one iota of difference to climate change (real or not/man-made or not).

Therefore - if we are going to act WITHOUT the rest of the world doing likewise, then we shouldn't be imposing huge costs on our economy which won't do a thing to save the planet, but will do enormous damage to our economy.

Let's not forget, that a booming economy gives the government more money which can be invested in clean energy schemes.

(and no, a punitive tax does not achieve the same effect).

2/ People respond more effectively to education and incentives, than they do to forced regulation and punitive measures. (eg. If you want everyone to install water saving equipment or solar panels, they will come aboard in higher numbers through rebates / tax concessions, than through tax penalties or forced regulation.

3/ I would provide tax incentives to send the market signal for R&D investment in the clean energy sector, NOT a punitive tax to try and force it. Especially when revenue from said tax won't be exclusively going to said clean development.

4/ If you're serious about reducing emissions in Australia then in the same breath you MUST acknowledge the need to seriously open the debate to include nuclear energy.

There are two resources which Australia has an abundance of - coal, and uranium. Coal especially, being cheap and easy will never be replaced as a base-load-generator by wind or solar.

So nuclear and clean-coal technologies are our ONLY 2 options to pursue and all energies and investment should be directed in this area.

And ultimately - if it's all too hard - then it's all too hard. Unless the rest of the world comes on board - we CAN NOT go it alone. We're simply too small.

 

[Mal]

Because as far as I and many other experts can see, there is no silver bullet answer to climate change.

I didn't believe in Global Warming when it was mooted as a climate model, now that it's been repackaged as "Climate Change" I still think it's a furphy.

Man has proven TIME AND TIME AGAIN that scientists are often Black Magic artists. Remember back in the 1990s when sea level rising was going to wipe out every city on the earth? Oops, I'm still here (and yes I note that the sea has risen.). Then there are other forecasts which get horribly screwed up. (rain models anyone?)

Quite simply IMHO there isn't the scientific data available to prove that climate change is anything more than a over-exaggerated set of data and/or natural cycles of earth weather.

Once again, I really put it to anyone who believes the carbon tax is a bad idea per se: what would you do instead to protect the environment and mitigate against the effects of climate change?

If I believe climate change existed, then I could answer this. But I can't.


"Climate Change" has been hijacked by those with special interests, agendas and their own financial needs in mind. There are plenty of people making absolute fortunes out of fear and scaremongering.

It really is a load of hot air.

 

[drron]

Once again the short-sighted industrials of this nation hold the government by the balls. And the idiotic Abbott simply rides on their voice without a mere thought of fielding a real, proactive agenda.



To put it nicely, that's a really glib statement showing how extremely short sighted you are.

This is not a silver bullet solution to climate change. There is no silver bullet solution and anyone who believes there is better be sure of themselves or suffer a penalty of a very, very painful death. Because as far as I and many other experts can see there is no silver bullet answer to climate change.

That's not to say carbon trading/taxing is not one of the components of the answer, but it is not a silver bullet.


Once again, I really put it to anyone who believes the carbon tax is a bad idea per se: what would you do instead to protect the environment and mitigate against the effects of climate change?

A-There is no evidence that i can see that the proposed Carbon tax will do anything re climate change.People will be compensated against the rise in prices therefore no signal to reduce consumption.The only people affected will be the rich.Unfortunately there are not that many of them.Secondly because they are rich they mostly will ignore the price signals.For example Al Gore.And dont give me the BS that he uses carbon offsets-those offsets should be happening anyway and not being used to salve the conscience of hypocrites.
B.Experts have been wrong before.When i started Uni it was the Council Of Rome predicting another Ice age and that we were all going to starve to death.One of my professors was prominent in that movement.
C.It is computer modelling.Not an exact science.It was also computer modelling by Central and investment banks that led to the decisions creating the environment for the GFC.
D.None of the experts have lived through global warming and can only extrapolate from the incomplete data available how the earth will respond to warming.
E.Contrary evidence appears to be ignored-for example the IPCC reports that record cold events were very likely to become less-that is not happening.But even going back read John Muir's recording of his 1860s visit to Alaska and how much the glaciers of Glacier bay had receeded since 1760 on Vancouver's visit.
F.You dont win arguments by over dramatising your points.No expert has said we are all going to die as the paragraph I have enclosed in your post implies.

Now how to challenge Climate Change-if you are going to have a carbon tax as part of the solution then there should not be compensation so a genuine price signal is given.The money raised should be used to encourage alternative energy including nuclear power.But both sides of politics and the International community must all accept this.Chance of happening-bu**** all.
So if we are going to do it unilaterally then it should be cutting out all middle class welfare and redirecting the money to alternative energy.Chance of the ALP and middle class accepting this.Bu**** all.But this alternative would not create havoc with our major industries and may indeed steer our economy to be more productive.

PS-take a day off from worrying and have a great birthday tomorrow.

 

[cove]

Why would we support a Carbon Tax?
It is just another Government Department set to run as badly as others.
Scraping off half the money to Treasury and the other half to prop up the poor doesn't seem to help anyone.
Shifting our steel industry to Asia does not lower world emissions because they are no more efficient than Australia currently is.
Ross Garnaut is an economist and most of his advice to Government has been dodgy if you allow the use of hindsight. Now he has acted as if he is a guru on climate and Labor is still listening to him.
World population control would be a pretty good approach.

 

[farstar]

Have a look at Venus to see the potential cost to our way of life and see the risk to our way of life of doing nothing.

Yes they really screwed up putting a carbon tax on volcanoes there before the CO2 got above 90% of the atmosphere and 90 times the atmospheric pressure here on earth.

Not a good comparison.

 

[Moody]

Yes they really screwed up putting a carbon tax on volcanoes there before the CO2 got above 90% of the atmosphere and 90 times the atmospheric pressure here on earth.

Not a good comparison.

True - about as equally valid as the numpty who said what a good thing CO2 was, and how we really need more of it rather than less.

Let me be blunt - if you follow the Pell, Jones, Bolt, Plimer crew then you are a lost cause and should put your head in a bucket of harmless CO2 for about 10 minutes.

 

[samh004]

Am off to read my copy of Lazarus Rising*****

Nice.


***** - Lie, but only coz I don't have a copy

I don’t understand the correlation between ***** and *****

 

[Sprucegoose]

Who else apart from one poster here actually pays the extra to QF for carbon offsets when try purchase their tickets online?

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Sprucegoose - Please put me down as a NO.

 

[dfcatch]

Who else apart from one poster here actually pays the extra to QF for carbon offsets when try purchase their tickets online?

Nope - not a chance.

Even IF I knew where my offset money was going. I don't need to spend money to clear my conscience.

 

[Misha]

I don’t understand the correlation between ***** and *****

After adding the colours - I couldn't remember which I had used, and as they come up as numbers I gave up. Apathy is, after all, my middle name. I could go on - but can't be bothered




PS: I always offset flights...

 

[DC3]

Yeah, let's implement a Carbon Tax. That will fix everything...

I want the Carbon Tax (and the NBN)

 

[Mal]

Who else apart from one poster here actually pays the extra to QF for carbon offsets when try purchase their tickets online?

I've done it several times. BUT, this was to tie in with a certain Amex promo where every transaction (even ones of 30c) were eligible...

Carbon offsets are another joke. Let's plant trees to suck up the nasty C02 in the environment. Fantastic.

Oops, there's a bushfire and it all goes back. Oops, the trees are logged (getting more money for the off-set company) and they no longer suck up C02,.

Ok, failed attempt. Let's try others:

If I dig a really big hole and pipe C02 in, then it's known as a carbon sink. I really don't care if it affects ground water, or leaks out eventually ... It's a sink, so I receive my payment.

Hmm, Again I've failed with a Carbon Offset scheme. Let's try again:

I'm going to build a huge plant over a rubbish dump to collect gasses and use them for electricity generation. It goes into the regular supply and I get regular electricity rates for it.

FANTASTIC! COMPANIES ARE PAYING ME TO BUILD INFRASTRUCTURE THAT I MAKE MONEY OUT OF!

(Yep, I really need to get onto the Carbon Money Train...)