CC churning - equifax scores

[exceladdict]

Interesting observation that closing a credit card (read: the bureau receiving reports of me closing it eight weeks later) has resulted in a boost in scores for both experian (via creditsavvy) and D&B/illion (creditsimple). I can assume this is separate to complete full repayment history as the score changed mid-month.

I do wonder how long it will be until banks start accessing this information and how it will impact future credit approvals.

 

[burmans]

I do wonder how long it will be until banks start accessing this information and how it will impact future credit approvals.

Many if not most are accessing the raw information (that's what they get back when they lodge an "enquiry" with the bureau) and the score but most look at the info rather than the score.

 

[get me outta here]

Applying for a CC? Don't buy too many take away meals, you may get knocked back :
With a 'good income', savings and no credit card, Renee's bank still knocked her back

 

[andye]

Applying for a CC? Don't buy too many take away meals, you may get knocked back :
With a 'good income', savings and no credit card, Renee's bank still knocked her back

This is one of the silly things that has come out of the Royal Commission.

Lenders already factor in for a rise in interest rates when assessing affordability.

Discretionary spending is usually discretionary i.e it could be cut back if interest rates rise further. Most people would cut back on their restaurant meals/piano lessons/clothes shopping/holidays etc if it meant losing their house

Admittedly, the old basic spending estimates were on the low side but the banks shouldn't force people into current frugality if their income permits

 

[theblank]

What are peoples experiences with credit cards and investment property loans. Want to get an investment property in next 6 months, does this mean my cc churning days are over....

totally irrellevent if you are churning credit cards. All that matters when you apply for a home loan, is your current financial status.

Home loans are secured finance, Previously cancelled credit cards dont mean a single thing.

 

[Finale]

Got a knockback from ANZ in December for Adventure card. Score dropped from 890 to 820.

My score dropped again to 765 this month.

I thought i was knocked back because of my investment property which we got 100% loan and the balance was still very close to what we borrowed.
It ended up being a high credit limit. Just applied and I didn't tell them the truth this time (Amex limits) and was approved just fine.

 

[Lynda2475]

This is one of the silly things that has come out of the Royal Commission

So i applied for a new credit card yesterday, and then this morning was asked to provide proof of income. The email requesting it said to provide two most recent payslips (no problem) - as was expecting this.

However when i logged in to the secure upload site I was given the option to:
a. log into internet banking with my other bank and select the account/s that my pay goes into so SGB could extract 6 months worth of transactions to see "proof of income" or
b. upload my payslips/other evidence - there was commentary implying this was more for those with multiple income streams or self employed.

No way was I going to give 6 months worth of transactions to a bank just to get a credit card (and no way was I going to let them extract this info from my internet banking account themselves). I felt they were fishing to see where I was spending my money (but give 99% of what i spend is on other cards they cant see this anyway - just what the total balance paid each month is/was).

I understand greater scrutiny is required in some cases when deciding how much to lend, however as someone with a high disposable income I would draw the line at being questioned over the fact that I eat out more than I do at home or catch too many ubers or go on too many holidays - as others have said this behaviour is easy to change if i need to save more. They should instead be looking at savings/investments over the same period, credit history, the size of deposit (especially if you can show this has been saved and not donated by the bank or mum and dad) etc.

The example in the article linked above would definitely deter me from approaching my current mortgage bank provider for a future mortgage.

Also yesterday's credit card application, saw inquiry from bank show up on Credit Simple an hour later and my score drop 113 points. Expect this to correct when the card i cancelled last week for the same credit limit, finally shows up as closed - but who knows how long it will take ANZ or report that closure.

My mortgage is not reported in Credit Savvy or Credit Simple, nor are Amex cards or utilities.

 

[GSP]

This trend from the banks to scourer your bank account is not a good think IMO.

My theory is if you have say 10k go into your account each month and 10k goes out each month (could be for savings/investments) or anything really, they'll use that as your monthly income rather than what was entered as part of the application.

So if you don't have any savings, they'll just assume with the new limit that your expenditure would exceed your income and put you at risk for a having your application declined.

 

[rock86]

So i applied for a new credit card yesterday, and then this morning was asked to provide proof of income. The email requesting it said to provide two most recent payslips (no problem) - as was expecting this.

However when i logged in to the secure upload site I was given the option to:
a. log into internet banking with my other bank and select the account/s that my pay goes into so SGB could extract 6 months worth of transactions to see "proof of income" or
b. upload my payslips/other evidence - there was commentary implying this was more for those with multiple income streams or self employed.

No way was I going to give 6 months worth of transactions to a bank just to get a credit card (and no way was I going to let them extract this info from my internet banking account themselves). I felt they were fishing to see where I was spending my money (but give 99% of what i spend is on other cards they cant see this anyway - just what the total balance paid each month is/was).

I understand greater scrutiny is required in some cases when deciding how much to lend, however as someone with a high disposable income I would draw the line at being questioned over the fact that I eat out more than I do at home or catch too many ubers or go on too many holidays - as others have said this behaviour is easy to change if i need to save more. They should instead be looking at savings/investments over the same period, credit history, the size of deposit (especially if you can show this has been saved and not donated by the bank or mum and dad) etc.

The example in the article linked above would definitely deter me from approaching my current mortgage bank provider for a future mortgage.

Also yesterday's credit card application, saw inquiry from bank show up on Credit Simple an hour later and my score drop 113 points. Expect this to correct when the card i cancelled last week for the same credit limit, finally shows up as closed - but who knows how long it will take ANZ or report that closure.

My mortgage is not reported in Credit Savvy or Credit Simple, nor are Amex cards or utilities.

It seems that all of the banks are doing this now, but payslips are still a perfectly acceptable form of proof (and which they all still accept). No doubt it'll catch a lot of people out though!!

 

[Cynicor]

As someone self employed I find the account scouring helps. My account has almost equal inflows and outflows but they approved it easily. Probably should look at my score sometime before the next churn!

 

[theblank]

I felt they were fishing to see where I was spending my money (but give 99% of what i spend is on other cards they cant see this anyway - just what the total balance paid each month is/was).

No, if they wanted to see where you are spendng your money, they would make this compulsory. It is what it said it is, so they can verify income. For some people its easier than uploading payslips.

 

[TomVexille]

No, if they wanted to see where you are spendng your money, they would make this compulsory. It is what it said it is, so they can verify income. For some people its easier than uploading payslips.

We recently re-financed our mortgage and they now need bank statements to prove payslips as too many people were fudging payslips

 

[theblank]

We recently re-financed our mortgage and they now need bank statements to prove payslips as too many people were fudging payslips

we are talking about credit cards applications here and its not compulsory.

its been a requirement for a long time to look at bank statements, its a completely different scenario and reason. The additionally want to see if there are any payments coming out for debts that you have not told them about.

 

[Lynda2475]

Also yesterday's credit card application, saw inquiry from bank show up on Credit Simple an hour later and my score drop 113 points. Expect this to corrected when the card i cancelled last week for the same credit limit, finally shows up as closed - but who knows how long it will take ANZ or report that closure.

Went back into Credit Simple this morning and my Credit Score was back to pre-inquiry level +1. Only thing that has changed is that new CC approved (although this not shown yet int he credit report) and the cancelled one still showing as open. Crazy fluctuations In the space of 5 days.

I uploaded two payslips plus a signed letter from HR stating my income - they didn't really need to see 6 months of activity for my transaction account, so I maintain it was a phishing attempt.

 

[TomVexille]

we are talking about credit cards applications here and its not compulsory.

its been a requirement for a long time to look at bank statements, its a completely different scenario and reason. The additionally want to see if there are any payments coming out for debts that you have not told them about.

I realise that. But I believe it’s relevant since all lending is getting tougher. Especially since the same bank didn’t ask that information not quite 18 months ago.

 

[theblank]

I realise that. But I believe it’s relevant since all lending is getting tougher.

if it was becuase lending is getting tougher, then it would have been a compulsory requirement, and its not.

 

[Eggsbenedict]

totally irrellevent if you are churning credit cards. All that matters when you apply for a home loan, is your current financial status.

Home loans are secured finance, Previously cancelled credit cards dont mean a single thing.

A bit late on this but I have to strongly disagree. I’m very familiar with Home Loans and Credit Reports and Scores.
Churning cards reduces your Credit Score due to the inquiry’s and type of credit, these have significant impact for the proceeding 12 months but continue to affect for 5 years. The new positive reporting is reducing the impact (if you have positive repayment history) but CC enquirers still have impact. I’m not saying don’t do it or that you can’t, I get 2-3 cards a year but you need to monitor it with regular credit checks. I got to low 500 score and started getting auto declined by banks for Home/Investment Loans.

 

[Eggsbenedict]

So i applied for a new credit card yesterday, and then this morning was asked to provide proof of income. The email requesting it said to provide two most recent payslips (no problem) - as was expecting this.

However when i logged in to the secure upload site I was given the option to:
a. log into internet banking with my other bank and select the account/s that my pay goes into so SGB could extract 6 months worth of transactions to see "proof of income" or
b. upload my payslips/other evidence - there was commentary implying this was more for those with multiple income streams or self employed.

No way was I going to give 6 months worth of transactions to a bank just to get a credit card (and no way was I going to let them extract this info from my internet banking account themselves). I felt they were fishing to see where I was spending my money (but give 99% of what i spend is on other cards they cant see this anyway - just what the total balance paid each month is/was).

I understand greater scrutiny is required in some cases when deciding how much to lend, however as someone with a high disposable income I would draw the line at being questioned over the fact that I eat out more than I do at home or catch too many ubers or go on too many holidays - as others have said this behaviour is easy to change if i need to save more. They should instead be looking at savings/investments over the same period, credit history, the size of deposit (especially if you can show this has been saved and not donated by the bank or mum and dad) etc.

The example in the article linked above would definitely deter me from approaching my current mortgage bank provider for a future mortgage.

Also yesterday's credit card application, saw inquiry from bank show up on Credit Simple an hour later and my score drop 113 points. Expect this to correct when the card i cancelled last week for the same credit limit, finally shows up as closed - but who knows how long it will take ANZ or report that closure.

My mortgage is not reported in Credit Savvy or Credit Simple, nor are Amex cards or utilities.

I think you will find the closure of your other card will have little affect increasing your score. Interested to hear if I’m wrong.

Amex don’t currently report “Postive” information. Repayment Histrory/limits so on. They are not required to by the legislation at this time. Most Mortgage lenders also don’t yet. NAB just stayed this month.
Regardless of what’s said in the news I don’t ever see utilities reporting payment history they just don’t have the systems and are not required to by the Legislation.

 

[theblank]

Churning cards reduces your Credit Score due to the inquiry’s and type of credit, these have significant impact for the proceeding 12 months but continue to affect for 5 years. .

the actual impact is somewhere between insignificant and stuff all for the last 12 months, and less of an impact prior to that.

 

[rock86]

The new ways of calculating scores is comical between providers, Equifax is mid 600's while Experian is 200 better and in the mid 800's.

It seems Experian must be putting some actual value to repayment history in calculating their scores, whereas Equifax are not including it at all - judging by their overview of 'whats is affecting your score'.