China announces visa-free travel for all Australians visiting for up to 15 days

[elanshin]

Now that China's Government has provided the starting date for the visa-free travel, QF should really evaluate whether they should proceed with the axing of the PVG service, even if it means reducing frequency on other routes.

I've heard multiple reports that QF's PVG service has had 100%, or close to 100% loads in the past month, and this was before the visa-free announcement. I'm sure QF would not want to miss out on this opportunity. The Australia-China market of two months ago is very different to the Australia-China market of today.


View attachment 392843
^ Let's hope Qantas isn't in this position on 28 July 2024

And I observed in the month of May many flights with 150+ empty seats at the back. Your point being?

Did you think QF axed the flights with good forward bookings? They wouldve had abysmal forward bookings to cancel the service.

Again you're confusing what QF brings to the Chinese market. A product aimed at corporate travel between Aus and Shanghai specifically that has seen all corporate travel there decinated.

Your leisure tourist wouldn't want to be touching QF prices if they can have it for half to 2/3rds QF's price (and still full service - subjectively better product).

 

[dajop]

Worth noting that it's the period of school holidays, pre-school holidays (where parents take there kids out of school a week or two early) and university breaks. Flights from Australia to a lot of Asia have been extremely full for last couple of weeks. Not necessarily representative of the rest of the year.

I don't think the 15 day visa (targeting tourists) will necessarily help yields on the QF service, other than at peak holiday travel periods. Plenty of competition for the price sensitive end of the market.

 

[AIRwin]

It’s confirmed - Mrs SS has just wasted $185 getting multiple entry visa to China for her trip in August! Visa free travel starts in July 1.

Stay more than 15 days to make full use of it?

 

[Matt_01]

I think a certain something has decimated desire of people to visit, so they're trying new ways of getting people to visit by reducing barriers and hurdles.

I think there are a few things that have made played into why some may not to choose to visit China. I had planned to go this year and would have been there around 4 weeks back however one of the questions in the new China visa application got me thinking do I really want to go back and subsequently cancelled the trip and went to Mongolia instead. I have been to China before and enjoyed my time there, with this change I have already booked to go back next year and the trip is self limited to 14 days.

Worth noting that it's the period of school holidays, pre-school holidays (where parents take there kids out of school a week or two early) and university breaks. Flights from Australia to a lot of Asia have been extremely full for last couple of weeks. Not necessarily representative of the rest of the year.

We are guilty of pulling our daughter out of school and the end and start of holidays especially if looking for J rewards and have done so for years. We mainly travelled in the 1st and 3rd break as mid year normally ties in with the Northern EU break and Christmas is always busy and to hard.

 

[p--and--t]

Agreed. With this new information about loads you have provided combined with the announcement of visa-free travel, the rationale for QF scrapping PVG gets weaker by the hour.

Hopefully we'll see a reversal of Qantas' decision sooner rather than later.

The route is crowded with carriers and Aussie desire to visit for business has dropped significantly. Hard to compete against subsidised services and the big market in students is going to fly their local carrier and lowest price.

Prefer for QF to redirect scarce frame resources.to somewhere useful and profitable.

On a personal level and for many others as well, "been there done that" (China)

 

[kpc]

Stsrts tomorrow
Official info:

Notice on Visa-free Policy to Ordinary Passport Holders of Australia_Embassy of the People’s Republic of China in the Commonwealth of Australia

FAQ: Answers to Frequently Asked Questions on Visa-free Policy to Ordinary Passport Holders of Australia

 

[RooFlyer]

The FAQ says:

It is encouraged to take necessary supportive documents with you on entering China, such as the invitation letter, flight tickets and hotel reservation letter, which will help to verify your purpose of visit.

Do tourists need an 'invitation letter', as they do in Russia?

I've been to China twice and enjoyed the experiences on offer, but never felt comfortable. Just wanted to see the sights and get out; it was an odd feeling. Never felt that way in Russia for example. I should give it another go I suppose, if I can get a cheap J fare on a Chinese airline (or Cathay of course).

 

[RealtimeY]

It's for those visiting relatives who don't otherwise have hotel bookings, itineraries, etc.

 

[elanshin]

The FAQ says:

It is encouraged to take necessary supportive documents with you on entering China, such as the invitation letter, flight tickets and hotel reservation letter, which will help to verify your purpose of visit.

Do tourists need an 'invitation letter', as they do in Russia?

I've been to China twice and enjoyed the experiences on offer, but never felt comfortable. Just wanted to see the sights and get out; it was an odd feeling. Never felt that way in Russia for example. I should give it another go I suppose, if I can get a cheap J fare on a Chinese airline (or Cathay of course).

No, no need for invitation letter. That's usually for actual visas where you are actually invited and relations are a bit rockier. (Like say during covid).

Having booked hotels and return flights are sometimes useful to have on hand. I've been asked for it once out of 4 times (144h transit visa though) in the last 12 months. They just took a picture and attached it to my file.

 

[wxxnxs]

Really - what about significantly lower cost base, lower wages, gov subsidies. Need to compare apples with apples.

Let's do a simple comparison here between China Eastern and Qantas, these are only 2 airlines provide the direct service to Shanghai:

Low cost base: what type of cost base, I presume the type of aircraft is a major one, here is fact:

China Eastern A350 vs Qantas A332/333, China Eastern uses the modernest plane vs Qantas uses more than 20 years old, surely the cost base is low in China Eastern.

Low Wages: Maybe, but how much does it contribute.

Government subsidies: NO WAY in Shanghai, Beijing or Guangzhou, secondary cities for sure, but Qantas doesn't fly anyway.

So overall, it's not Qantas doing something wrong, it's just showing how uncompetitive on Qantas when it compares to most of Asian carriers in the same market.

 

[moa999]

Wages make a massive difference.

In 2023 Qantas spent a total of $4.3bn on salaries and wages (both flight and cabin crew and all management and support), almost as much as the $4.5bn they spent on fuel, out of total expenses of $16bn.

So say on a $1000 ticket, probably $200 of that is going to wages.

 

[p--and--t]

Let's do a simple comparison here between China Eastern and Qantas, these are only 2 airlines provide the direct service to Shanghai:

Low cost base: what type of cost base, I presume the type of aircraft is a major one, here is fact:

China Eastern A350 vs Qantas A332/333, China Eastern uses the modernest plane vs Qantas uses more than 20 years old, surely the cost base is low in China Eastern.

Low Wages: Maybe, but how much does it contribute.

Government subsidies: NO WAY in Shanghai, Beijing or Guangzhou, secondary cities for sure, but Qantas doesn't fly anyway.

So overall, it's not Qantas doing something wrong, it's just showing how uncompetitive on Qantas when it compares to most of Asian carriers in the same market.

Laughable

 

[RooFlyer]

Wages make a massive difference.

In 2023 Qantas spent a total of $4.3bn on salaries and wages (both flight and cabin crew and all management and support), almost as much as the $4.5bn they spent on fuel, out of total expenses of $16bn.

Generally why Australia isn't very competitive in most markets (labour costs) & why Qantas is offshoring as much of its labour force as possible (including cabin crew)..

Are the QF crews that service Chine on Australian awards, or offshore?

Laughable

Would help if you told us why.

 

[clifford]

Would help if you told us why.

Indeed...