Chinese warship live-fire exercise discovered by Virgin Australia pilot, Air safety body says

[justinbrett]

The way people are posting it’s like they think the ADF didn’t even know the ships were there.

Of course they did. They track them very closely and know far more about what they’re doing and their intentions than what is being suggested here.

None of this gets to the media for obvious reasons.

The public / media narrative about capability often doesn’t match reality. Too many armchair experts.

 

[Quickstatus]

They’ve had all sort of stuff added to them ever since and now bordering on another submarine force with all that top weight…

Yes they have needed extra ballast to stabilise all the top weight. They are basically at max displacement now

 

[SYD]

Yes they have needed extra ballast to stabilise all the top weight. They are basically at max displacement now

That’s an understatement when the gunnels are letting water in and not out!

 

[SeatBackForward]

The way people are posting it’s like they think the ADF didn’t even know the ships were there.

Of course they did. They track them very closely and know far more about what they’re doing and their intentions than what is being suggested here.

None of this gets to the media for obvious reasons.

The public / media narrative about capability often doesn’t match reality. Too many armchair experts.

the part about commercial aircraft needing to take evasive action is the concerning part!

 

[PERLHR]

Not at all. Should be concentrating on Australia, not wasting $300billion on silly submarines to support US policy in SCS.

People and politicians need a reality check and not play silly politics with absurd anti-China policy.

Far better ways to enhance our defence forces.

Really? Ok then ....not quite sure who needs the reality check here.

 

[PERLHR]

The way people are posting it’s like they think the ADF didn’t even know the ships were there.

Of course they did. They track them very closely and know far more about what they’re doing and their intentions than what is being suggested here.

None of this gets to the media for obvious reasons.

The public / media narrative about capability often doesn’t match reality. Too many armchair expert

I think the point in question is did they know prior to the commencement of live drills? If they did you would think they would say so and as they have said they did not know...well then if they did...why say they didn't to the Australian public? In terms of did they know they were there? ..well let's hope so....surely that was easy enough.

 

[RooFlyer]

The way people are posting it’s like they think the ADF didn’t even know the ships were there.

Of course they did. They track them very closely and know far more about what they’re doing and their intentions than what is being suggested here.

I don't doubt that the ADF knew where the ships were. EDIT: Only second hand it seems - see below But should they have been paying closer attention? The PLA have been rather provocative towards the ADF of late (in the air) so I wonder if some provocation on the water have been anticipated? Yes, I hope that the ADF keeps secret a lot of what they know but the Chief of the ADF was pretty adamant before a Parliamentary committee today that they didn't know about the live firing until the Virgin pilot told ATC, and so on.#

# I believe the defence chief could have asked to have gone in camera if there was security involved. That is, in not doing so, he didn't have anything secure to protect -they just didn't know

 

[justinbrett]

the part about commercial aircraft needing to take evasive action is the concerning part!

Evading what?

Again, I don't think it's been suggested that firing was actually taking place and the aircraft were having to evade rounds.

They received a transmission from the PLA that firing would be taking place. Quite different to "taking evasive action" which paints a much more dramatic picture. This is as much about causing disruption than anything else.

It's the equivalent of an airliner flying through military airspace that's become active and being told to vacate. That happens.

I think the point in question is did they know prior to the commencement of live drills? If they did you would think they would say so and as they have said they did not know...well then if they did...why say they didn't to the Australian public? In terms of did they know they were there? ..well let's hope so....surely that was easy enough.

As above - ADF is a large organisation. Much of it doesn't leak information. A small part of it talks to agencies like Air Services. They may well have known but just hadn't passed the information to the relevant agencies in time.

I'm not sure it's important the ADF knew before the drills, that's just a reflection of the PLA being reckless . However once the actual firing commenced, then yes I think they should have known - and in my opinion, would have known.

We'll never know the timeline of who knew what when. In many respects it serves our interests for the wider message to be that we didn't know anything.

 

[RooFlyer]

From the Australian app from my phone. So we were actually relying on the New Zealand Navy to keep tabs on the Chinese. And they are a bit slow in reporting things across the ditch. Ah, well.

 

[Larko1]

No. The Anzacs have crewing issues and maintenance delays though AMCAP will keep them ticking over hopefully until more Hunters arrive. And 1 ANZAC already retired. COLLINS?. Maybe half are operational capable at any time.
And only 3Hobarts which are the most advanced in the fleet

Did Uncle Allen get a job with the ADF

 

[markis10]

No. The Anzacs have crewing issues and maintenance delays though AMCAP will keep them ticking over hopefully until more Hunters arrive. And 1 ANZAC already retired. COLLINS?. Maybe half are operational capable at any time.
And only 3Hobarts which are the most advanced in the fleet

Some of the fleet are about to play games with a Virginia class hunter killer over in WA, I don’t think it’s a coincidence the Chinese appear to be heading in their direction.

 

[drron]

From the Australian app from my phone. So we were actually relying on the New Zealand Navy to keep tabs on the Chinese. And they are a bit slow in reporting things across the ditch. Ah, well.

View attachment 433154

So that statement basically said the VA pilot was told of the live firing about 30 minutes after it had begun. So the Chinese were delibately provocative and not complying with accepted behaviour in this circumstance.

And the statement by the Chief of the Defence Force re not knowing that the live firing had begun almost certainly is because they didn't want the Chinese to know they had that knowledge. Taking the question in Private would have meant that he did have that knowledge almost certainly. So better to omit that evidence in public so as not to tip off the Chinese.

 

[RooFlyer]

Taking the question in Private would have meant that he did have that knowledge almost certainly. So better to omit that evidence in public so as not to tip off the Chinese.

I disagree. Taking the question in private would mean no one other than those present would know what we knew or what we didn’t know.

Telling untruths to a parliamentary inquiry (not a case of anything omitted here - he said quite clearly that they didn’t know) is, I think, unlawful to put it simply. Especially by the head of the defence force. Raises the question - what else are they lying to us about?

 

[drron]

Sorry but taking it private sends a big message to the Chinese that Defence knew what was going on and that information wasn’t sent out publicly by the Chinese navy. Hence telling the Chinese that they had better beef up their security.

 

[justinbrett]

I disagree. Taking the question in private would mean no one other than those present would know what we knew or what we didn’t know.

Telling untruths to a parliamentary inquiry (not a case of anything omitted here - he said quite clearly that they didn’t know) is, I think, unlawful to put it simply. Especially by the head of the defence force. Raises the question - what else are they lying to us about?

Plausible deniability.

The CDF doesn't have a role in current ops. That's led by Commander Joint Operations Command, a 3 star in Bungendore (technically not Canberra, so you can also be clever with words regarding "when Canberra knew").

So perhaps if they wanted a better answer they should have asked for him.

But again I draw the distinction between when the activity schedule had commenced vs when the first round was fired. I haven't heard a definitive about that.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Good to see the ADF is on the ball and firing practice torpedoes at Gold Coast beaches to scare off the for foreign invaders

 

[kookaburra75]

Evading what?
Again, I don't think it's been suggested that firing was actually taking place and the aircraft were having to evade rounds.
They received a transmission from the PLA that firing would be taking place. Quite different to "taking evasive action" which paints a much more dramatic picture. This is as much about causing disruption than anything else.
It's the equivalent of an airliner flying through military airspace that's become active and being told to vacate. That happens.

And that has happened before, even to our beloved Red Roo

Qantas Flight Diverted by Navy Threat of Force

A Qantas Airways flight from Los Angeles landed safely in Australia early Monday after it was forced to change course near Hawaii when a Navy warship inadvertently threatened to shoot down the plane as it flew over a Navy exercise in the South Pacific.

www.latimes.com

As above - ADF is a large organisation. Much of it doesn't leak information. A small part of it talks to agencies like Air Services. They may well have known but just hadn't passed the information to the relevant agencies in time.

I'm not sure it's important the ADF knew before the drills, that's just a reflection of the PLA being reckless . However once the actual firing commenced, then yes I think they should have known - and in my opinion, would have known.

We'll never know the timeline of who knew what when. In many respects it serves our interests for the wider message to be that we didn't know anything.

Exactly. It's a dynamic situation which doesn't suit the ten-minute news cycle

 

[Quickstatus]

All very speculative. Betoota come closest to the truth

 

[Quickstatus]

If the ADF had an unprecedented surveillance on the PLA-N ships from the start, Albo would have been told by someone in the ADF, and they could have briefed the Govt, Senate and House in private from the start such that there would be consensus story for the domestic audience. The CCP /PLA-N would not have prior info about these briefings (unless someone in govt leaks to them).

For this reason I don't buy the story that the ADF is spinning a story to suppress the actual truth.

I would have thought after the recent caravan issue, that Albo would want to be on the ball about these matters - after all, Albo apparently has 11 media advisers and the CDF would have been on his speed dial.

 

[DC3]

Some of the fleet are about to play games with a Virginia class hunter killer over in WA, I don’t think it’s a coincidence the Chinese appear to be heading in their direction.

Maybe nothing to see near Tassie, so just moved on