Chinese warship live-fire exercise discovered by Virgin Australia pilot, Air safety body says

[Pushka]

I think you (and some of the earlier posters) may have missed the key point about this whole storm in a Tasman Sea cup @Pushka.

Warships are allowed to sail wherever they want in International Waters (for the most part, outside 12NM from national coastlines). They’re also allowed to conduct live firing. However, normally, responsible navies formally let everyone around them know, in advance, that they will be carrying out such practices. Generally 48 hours of notice beforehand I seem to recall? They do this because most navies don’t want to deliberately piss off the countries they are near, the other users of the sea lanes they are in, and the users of the airspace above them.

In this specific case, the Defence Forces of both Australia and NZ, were monitoring the location of the Chinese task group. They knew where they were. They didn’t know, and couldn’t provide the advance notice of the firings you have called for above, because the Chinese Navy (PLA-N) decided not to tell anyone beforehand.

Instead, the PLA-N decided to be deliberately unprofessional and broadcast their warning as they were planning to commence their training drills, via radio broadcasts. We can probably assume that their lack of professionalism didn’t extend to actually firing weapons without safely clearing the sea and airspace around them first. They may not have even fired anything.

Recall also that the Chinese military regularly fly and sail unprofessionally in international waters and airspace that they (and they alone) consider to be ‘theirs’, but this is usually in proximity to other military assets (Australian maritime patrol aircraft; US ships and aircraft; Philippine Navy vessels; Malaysian exploration assets), rather than affecting civilian aircraft.

I didn't miss a thing. I understand it is all internationally legal. The point being that pilots flying over where those drills were being done took a different flight path as a reaction. If they'd been briefed secretly then it would have been a non event. Pretty sure security and defence are clever enough to hold confidential briefings with those aviation personnel who will be directly impacted.

Post automatically merged: Sunday at 7:34 PM

The so what of the above is why did they do it? In the past their task groups didn’t sail down into the Tasman Sea, but now they can and will. Some commentators have noted that the Chinese military does things to ‘send a message’.

I fully expected that 24-48 hours after the event there would have been an official statement from Beijing ‘regretting’ the ‘inconvenience’ and explaining that for some reason or other, the standard notification of the firing wasn’t published. There is probably something telling if they didn’t even bother with that.

I understand that other territorial waters where this has occurred previously that the neighbouring countries were given two weeks notice. I can't remember which country but will try finding it.

 

[DC3]

… In the past their task groups didn’t sail down into the Tasman Sea, but now they can and will. Some commentators have noted that the Chinese military does things to ‘send a message’ …

 

[Scarlett]

I didn't miss a thing. I understand it is all internationally legal. The point being that pilots flying over where those drills were being done took a different flight path as a reaction. If they'd been briefed secretly then it would have been a non event. Pretty sure security and defence are clever enough to hold confidential briefings with those aviation personnel who will be directly impacted.

The problem then is that you’re constructing a straw man argument: IF Defence had these secrets then they should have done something different with them. I obviously can’t be definitive, but pretty certain they didn’t and couldn’t have known beforehand…

Now, if your post 98 was being ironic, about the ‘supposed’ secrets speculation introduced earlier, my apologies for missing the intention.

Two weeks of notice would be very neighbourly! I’ve commented on here previously on being booked on a UL flight out of CMB that was significantly delayed (might have been cancelled) with only about 48 hours notice, due to Indian plans to test a weapon by firing it into the Bay of Bengal.

 

[drron]

Apparently the gave PNG 2 weeks warning of sailing through Torres Strait but no contact with Australia.

 

[p--and--t]

With no actual knowledge of the events at all, i’ll express a possibly ill-informed opinion.

The PLA are continuing complaining they are pee’d of by AU US and others sailing and flying in what they consider “their” space (disputed by every other country on the planet) and decided now they have a beefed up fleet they will go and sail around countries that pee them off and thumb their noses at them and do whatever they wish as a warning to buzz off.

Classic tit for tat and don't mess with us.

 

[SYD]

With no actual knowledge of the events at all, i’ll express a possibly ill-informed opinion.

The PLA are continuing complaining they are pee’d of by AU US and others sailing and flying in what they consider “their” space (disputed by every other country on the planet) and decided now they have a beefed up fleet they will go and sail around countries that pee them off and thumb their noses at them and do whatever they wish as a warning to buzz off.

Classic tit for tat and don't mess with us.

Yes, some might even say inferiority complex… Really quite laughable really.

 

[justinbrett]

I think you (and some of the earlier posters) may have missed the key point about this whole storm in a Tasman Sea cup @Pushka.

Warships are allowed to sail wherever they want in International Waters (for the most part, outside 12NM from national coastlines). They’re also allowed to conduct live firing. However, normally, responsible navies formally let everyone around them know, in advance, that they will be carrying out such practices. Generally 48 hours of notice beforehand I seem to recall? They do this because most navies don’t want to deliberately piss off the countries they are near, the other users of the sea lanes they are in, and the users of the airspace above them.

In this specific case, the Defence Forces of both Australia and NZ, were monitoring the location of the Chinese task group. They knew where they were. They didn’t know, and couldn’t provide the advance notice of the firings you have called for above, because the Chinese Navy (PLA-N) decided not to tell anyone beforehand.

Instead, the PLA-N decided to be deliberately unprofessional and broadcast their warning as they were planning to commence their training drills, via radio broadcasts. We can probably assume that their lack of professionalism didn’t extend to actually firing weapons without safely clearing the sea and airspace around them first. They may not have even fired anything.

Recall also that the Chinese military regularly fly and sail unprofessionally in international waters and airspace that they (and they alone) consider to be ‘theirs’, but this is usually in proximity to other military assets (Australian maritime patrol aircraft; US ships and aircraft; Philippine Navy vessels; Malaysian exploration assets), rather than affecting civilian aircraft.

Legal requirement - advise ships and aircraft that firing is taking place
Best practice - give 24-48 advanced notice.

So the PLA met the legal requirement but did not demonstrate best practices. There is no requirement to advise the state, just the vessels.

 

[RooFlyer]

fully expected that 24-48 hours after the event there would have been an official statement from Beijing ‘regretting’ the ‘inconvenience’ and explaining that for some reason or other, the standard notification of the firing wasn’t published. There is probably something telling if they didn’t even bother with that.

Quite the contrary . The Chinese ambassador here replied to the effect of
“tough titty. We’ve done it and too bad if you don’t like it.”